is Pentax still crazy? thoughts when heard 50mm n 35mm price at MS


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notone

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#1
last day I asked price for above lenses when walking by MS color.
saw a pile of 50mm there, and it's $590
asked 35mm, no stock, and it will be $760.
what the heck is that!
I was jumped in P when 50mm was 300++, I did not realize that it was the golden days then:(
comparing to Canon and Nikon, Pentax copy is poorer or no better quality (optical and build) with higher or much higher price tag, not mention they have cheaper versions, I mean much much cheaper 50/1.8.

I totally do not understand how can Pentax compete with others by this way. I thought P crazy when the price went up, I think P is suicide when P keeps high price tags without any improvement in product quality.

sadly I have said no jump in to my friends n colleagues for quite some time when they asked my rec.
selling color bodies won't last for long run, I guess. and I wish a different story
 

fengwei

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#2
The FA35/2 is more or less discontinued, thus the higher price due to lack of stock.
The FA50/1.4 has a higher price tag because Pentax was selling them under valued before. But I do feel $590 for an FA50/1.4 is abit too high. Should be somewhere between 400 to 500. If Pentax sold FA50/1.4 for $490 all these years, you won't feel too much a shock when the price slightly climbed to $590.

If you think Pentax is suiciding because of these two lenses, I think you got it wrong. You can still take great photos w/o these two lenses, and there are a lot more offerings from Pentax other than these two.
 

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notone

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#3
pentax bodies are good buys. but other than the kit lens, I personally do not think pentax offers eye attracting lenses to general customs, newbie esp.
I talked about these two, because they should be the most common startup when trying primes, and all brands provide these two models for long long long history so easy to compare. just the sampling, quite a few models from pentax are not standard setting so can not compare directly or easily, or unbiased:)
when saying this, I admit that pentax loses a lot in zoom lenses at the first place already, major part of market though.

to me, pentax was in the first group at the level of Minolta, but now way behind CNS, maybe getting behind O, hope not further to be a catchup to P, S and F.


If you think Pentax is suiciding because of these two lenses, I think you got it wrong. You can still take great photos w/o these two lenses, and there are a lot more offerings from Pentax other than these two.
 

eow

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Jun 22, 2004
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#4
friend bought the 50mm f1.4 at $320 1 or 2 yr ago
i thought it was a terrific piece of glass at a incredible bargain....
now for the price thought it a filmsy built 50mm at a cutthroat price....
more expensive than the CNS 50mm equivalents
 

fengwei

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#5
Pentax is not competing against big players like Canon or Nikon, they can't anyway. Pentax is just trying to grab some niche market: cheap WR solution for general (and pro) users, small pancakes for their cool factors, colorful (thus interesting) bodies for the youth (and oldies too), plus some pro level glass if you want better optial quality. Yes, Pentax is lagging w/ better fast zoom lenses, especially on the tele end. But there are plenty of choice for most users.

Does everyone need a prime lens? Not really. Most users would stick w/ one or two kit lenses only, that's the fact from film days. How many users are using prime lenses when you see them carrying dSLR cameras in streets/the zoo/or anywhere? Very few, even from Canon or Nikon users. Most users don't even bother looking for another lens after they got the kit.

Talking about marketing, Hoya (Pentax) was 6th in market share from BCN sales ranking last year, but 4th this year so far:

http://bcnranking.jp/news/1007/100708_17586.html

Of course it's from Japan only, but we all see how fast Pentax users base has been growing here in Singapore in the past year :) No cheaper 50/35 lenses hasn't been stopping newbies from buying into Pentax.

We all wish Pentax can release cheaper 50mm and 35mm lenses, but I guess Canon/Nikon users have their own wishes too? Since there is a demand, I'm sure Pentax is gonna do something about this. But we also know that Pentax like to do things their way, they don't really follow the trend :cool:
 

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night86mare

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#6
you pick and choose the cons and amplify them. but you should also look at the benefits that you are enjoying.

never mind that some of the other brand users will never ever get to get in-body shake reduction.
never mind that you are getting superb iso performance on an entry level model in the k-x outperforming some of the mid-range offerings of the other brands.
never mind that the twin lens kit is still easily $100-$200 off what you are going to pay for entry level model with kit lens only.

my advice is to be more objective. don't just see the half empty glass and rant about how you want it to be full. one should always see that the glass is almost always half empty, half full.. and that you can't even get a full glass in life. if it were that easy, it won't be life.

if the 50mm, 35mm price is so bad for you, then switch. but please remember that you also lose something when you switch.
 

night86mare

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#7
friend bought the 50mm f1.4 at $320 1 or 2 yr ago
i thought it was a terrific piece of glass at a incredible bargain....
now for the price thought it a filmsy built 50mm at a cutthroat price....
more expensive than the CNS 50mm equivalents
canon 50mm f/1.4 is also around $580 last i checked.

i haven't seen the nikon 50mm f/1.4, but i can tell you, based on the canon 50mm f/1.4 that i frequently see, the build quality is equal, and the canon version is larger and less compact.

that said, i also kind of agree that it shouldn't be $590. but neither should it have been priced at $320ish region.
 

tabako

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Nov 25, 2005
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#8
Pentax has the new DA* 55mm f1.4 but i am afraid the price will also be more shocking. But if you need a 50mm fast lens, why not look at some old manual focus, sharp but the only drawback is manual focus.
 

notone

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#9
hi guys, I am not going to blow off pentax. but how difficult for a fan to admit one's idol's obvious flaw?
there are types of fans for any brand.
but I would say, looking at the empty half would be helpful to get more motivated. better than being satisfied with the filled part when face to face comparing.
it's kind of sadness once a leading role now struggling for its supporting role by aiming to please the minority.
I did not have stats before this post, so I have just looked at stats online. sadly again, its market share is about 6th globlely. and more sadly, looking at most rapid growing market, China, it is...... none, out of top 10 counted, less than 1%? (correction: DSLR+DC) Pentax was of top 4 for decades there. can you figure out what's the scale of hole Pentax has dig?
just by my personal feeling on online forums. in past few years, there was a bloom for p users, at about the same time, there was a bloom for all DLSR users. I am not sure the ratio wise. but I did feel the declining trend of increase for pentax ---again, it's all about sampling. for this group of people, the purchase of more new lenses are much more common than general people. I heard it somewhere saying that more profit comes from lenses, not bodies --- of course, more profit from DC, not DSLR, which P not good at either. I can not get any stats on lens sales, but anyway since Pentax is eye on lady and oldy users as said, not expecting them buy buy more lenses la.
 

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notone

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#10
nikon copy is below 500 or around there.
canon gets usm inside, are you going to compare with sdm version:)
to my experience, canon copy gives more better build feeling though.
let's put it this way, to compete with bigger names, even same or better quality, Pentax is supposed to offer low price, not the other way.


canon 50mm f/1.4 is also around $580 last i checked.

i haven't seen the nikon 50mm f/1.4, but i can tell you, based on the canon 50mm f/1.4 that i frequently see, the build quality is equal, and the canon version is larger and less compact.

that said, i also kind of agree that it shouldn't be $590. but neither should it have been priced at $320ish region.
 

notone

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#11
I myself have. I just wanted to check the market.
now I have no intention to buy new lenses from store any more, but interested in trying old ones, and yes, manual ones as well.
but then I would not rec Pentax anymore to new comers either.
and neither point is good to a living company.

Pentax has the new DA* 55mm f1.4 but i am afraid the price will also be more shocking. But if you need a 50mm fast lens, why not look at some old manual focus, sharp but the only drawback is manual focus.
 

seefei

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#12
but then I would not rec Pentax anymore to new comers either.
and neither point is good to a living company.
speaking bad about a living company is bad karma. a no no for a living sentient. :nono:
 

detritus

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#13
nikon copy is below 500 or around there.
canon gets usm inside, are you going to compare with sdm version:)
to my experience, canon copy gives more better build feeling though.
let's put it this way, to compete with bigger names, even same or better quality, Pentax is supposed to offer low price, not the other way.
i don't agree. how is a price war viable and sensible other than as a race to the bottom and eventual financial ruin? :thumbsd:

and how do you build a reputation for quality if u price like an underdog going for broke?

and if u compromise on quality to offer lower price, where does that lead you?

u see zeiss lenses going for lelong before?

while the recent price increase for certain lenses appears unjustifiable, its not really true that ALL pentax lenses are overpriced and not worth the price.

that is why it is the responsibility of the consumer to research and decide if it is worthwhile to spend on a lens like the FA 50. don't like the price? can live without it? just don't buy.

i don't think its true that the FA Ltd and DA Ltd are not worth the money. in fact, they are fantastic value for money, given the build and image quality.

I myself have. I just wanted to check the market.
now I have no intention to buy new lenses from store any more, but interested in trying old ones, and yes, manual ones as well.
but then I would not rec Pentax anymore to new comers either.
and neither point is good to a living company.
what's so bad about a company with a solid legacy who makes backward compatible products? :dunno:

my friends using C can only dream of using legacy lenses. its a healthy eco-system.
 

fengwei

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#14
I myself have. I just wanted to check the market.
now I have no intention to buy new lenses from store any more, but interested in trying old ones, and yes, manual ones as well.
but then I would not rec Pentax anymore to new comers either.
and neither point is good to a living company.
Your friends will blame you when they find out how deep the hole is when they go for a C or N ;)
 

ranchy

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Jan 11, 2010
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#15
I myself have. I just wanted to check the market.
now I have no intention to buy new lenses from store any more, but interested in trying old ones, and yes, manual ones as well.
but then I would not rec Pentax anymore to new comers either.
and neither point is good to a living company.
:dunno: Why can't recommend it to new comers? I just recommend to my friend on a K-x. Although it has its flaws, no AF point in the VF, poor AF against the big brand when in low light. It does not stop me recommending to him. I point out all the bad points, see whether would he would mind those flaws. It's their choice, we just recommend what we know to open up their choices. When you put its good points out, it's real value for money for it. You can't force a person with limited budget to buy everything? Must give them the best bang of the money. And he bought one yesterday, He was tempted by the Canon 1000d, but after reading reviews and trying out, and almost the same price, if you add SD card and Enenelop battery, as he knows in the long run, he won't be buying much lens and if he ever want to venture into primes or more lens, that would be another point.

And also if they are new comers, new to DSLR, not all would be spending all their money on FA50mm and all those primes lens, there will be people who just need 1 lens or kit lens for all needs, or maybe the 18-200 telephoto lens. And maybe just one Prime lens, it still overall be cheaper?

Although, yes the FA50mm and 35 and some of the lens price is increasing, it may be not as value as before. Is this trend be on going? We will not know as this is up to Hoya to plan their own marketing strategy. Frankly, i also wish those price would come down and not too be too high, so it can be affordable. :sticktong
 

notone

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#16
speaking bad about a living company is bad karma. a no no for a living sentient. :nono:
sigh, may I talk about minolta here? I started my SLR life with it, and still keep a set to remind me what it gave me.
it was not long ago a giant in this field went down:(

......
u see zeiss lenses going for lelong before?
.......
what's so bad about a company with a solid legacy who makes backward compatible products? :dunno:
my friends using C can only dream of using legacy lenses. its a healthy eco-system.
do you imply to go for the legend by jump to S?:)
in lens to lens compare, Pentax either loses most of time, or change the settings so no straight forward conclusion can made. eg limited copies, price of L, but about 1 stop slower. m4/3 and so on will get up handed in pancakes for that group of users, i think.
Pentax never reached the level leica or zeiss did, and will never be. people will pay $$$ just for that name.
BTW, canon fits wider range of old lenses, which made a couple of Nikon uses around me get a canon body, but not pentax. maybe later a 4/3 body instead. anyway, not a good thing for a living company, neither significant enough to care about.
 

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seefei

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#17
sigh, may I talk about minolta here? I started my SLR life with it, and still keep a set to remind me what it gave me.
it was not long ago a giant in this field went down:(
it is also bad karma to hold on to bad memories. it will only allow you to see the empty part of a glass. the market is such a vast ocean of memories, trying to define part of it based on a single memory is foolish.

the market is complicated and imperfect. unless you are xiaxue, trying to influence others based on your own experience is bordering on foolishness. even that, not everyone think a pink & full of bling2 camera is cool.
 

Moonlightsg

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Jan 28, 2010
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#18
Agree with some point from Notone like the FA50 is too exp...
as a beginner like me i still have the 2 kits lens only... don't really see the point of getting the FA50 as not my cup of tea... haha so don't make a different to me...

but let me choose again... i will still buy K-x... may be the colorful kits!
love the color....
sorry, i have PS but i don't know how to use it... so perfer pentax's color than Canon and nikon color...
 

notone

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#19
for my colleagues knowing only C, N and now S, what should I say?
the recent two cases are: one went direct to L setup, one for the D90 kit. both much richer than me:(
zeiss not attractive enough yet.
for light user (kit lens forever type), I rec O.

:dunno: Why can't recommend it to new comers? I just recommend to my friend on a K-x. Although it has its flaws, no AF point in the VF, poor AF against the big brand when in low light. It does not stop me recommending to him. I point out all the bad points, see whether would he would mind those flaws. It's their choice, we just recommend what we know to open up their choices. When you put its good points out, it's real value for money for it. You can't force a person with limited budget to buy everything? Must give them the best bang of the money. And he bought one yesterday, He was tempted by the Canon 1000d, but after reading reviews and trying out, and almost the same price, if you add SD card and Enenelop battery, as he knows in the long run, he won't be buying much lens and if he ever want to venture into primes or more lens, that would be another point.
And also if they are new comers, new to DSLR, not all would be spending all their money on FA50mm and all those primes lens, there will be people who just need 1 lens or kit lens for all needs, or maybe the 18-200 telephoto lens. And maybe just one Prime lens, it still overall be cheaper?
Although, yes the FA50mm and 35 and some of the lens price is increasing, it may be not as value as before. Is this trend be on going? We will not know as this is up to Hoya to plan their own marketing strategy. Frankly, i also wish those price would come down and not too be too high, so it can be affordable. :sticktong
 

seefei

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#20
for my colleagues knowing only C, N and now S, what should I say?
the recent two cases are: one went direct to L setup, one for the D90 kit. both much richer than me:(
zeiss not attractive enough yet.
for light user (kit lens forever type), I rec O.
i see your problem. you have many friends and colleagues using CNS. and you are bothered because you have nothing to say about Pentax due to your lack of knowledge beside the price of the FA.

Maybe it is time you come for our outings. That will even out some of the imbalance and up your P! factor. "Be Interesting" man!
 

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