Is Bio Metric Passport practical or just gimmick to scrap more money?


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Silence Sky

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#1
First thing about my new passport is I am very disappointed with the image quality and those dots make me look like a leprosy sufferer.

Secondly, why it so expansive? doubling the cost..
Is it really for security reasons?
I really do not understand how we and our country can be safer with the bio-metric passport.
Are Singaporeans posing a bigger threat than foreigners when entering into Singapore?
 

Caspere

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#2
Yes.

Those real terrorists or professionals by now already know how to fake these "geniune" passports. So one-upping each other only serves to make lives of common people like us crazy!

Similarly with weapons, those who need it will know where and how to get it. Only people like you and me (who do not really need it) will have problems even trying to know about getting it.

So.. Yes. A waste of money. Gives a false sense of security. And makes those IDIOT scholars who thought of it think so darn highly of themselves!
 

raptor84

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Dec 6, 2005
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#3
Some checkpoints have this new self-serivce terminals for bio-metric passports where you can scan your pass port and thumbprint and pass though...

IIRc they somehow encode the biometric data into the page that shows your photo...
 

palvin

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#4
Some checkpoints have this new self-serivce terminals for bio-metric passports where you can scan your pass port and thumbprint and pass though...

IIRc they somehow encode the biometric data into the page that shows your photo...
In movies, thumb print can also be forged and accepted by the bio-metric reader. Hmm... wonder if this will happen in real life or not.
 

yanyewkay

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Sep 22, 2004
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#5
you guys should check out how the mythbusters guys got thru the "world's best finger print scanner with thermal detection that has never been defeated before" all they did was to put a photocopied thumbprint onto the scanner and it passed thru easily. HA! Basically all the others were just as easy to fool with the photocopied thumbprint.
 

denniskee

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#6
you guys should check out how the mythbusters guys got thru the "world's best finger print scanner with thermal detection that has never been defeated before" all they did was to put a photocopied thumbprint onto the scanner and it passed thru easily. HA! Basically all the others were just as easy to fool with the photocopied thumbprint.
:eek: :eek: :sweat: :sweat:
 

Caspere

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#7
you guys should check out how the mythbusters guys got thru the "world's best finger print scanner with thermal detection that has never been defeated before" all they did was to put a photocopied thumbprint onto the scanner and it passed thru easily. HA! Basically all the others were just as easy to fool with the photocopied thumbprint.
Yes. A FBI friend told me that there is very little they can do to "prevent" determined persons intent on wracking havoc, they can only delay delay delay.

The different agencies have their own "systems" of monitoring, tracking, filtering information and people they think is "dangerous". So, all these extras like biometeric thingies are to allow the general population "feel" secure/safer. Nothing destroys the economies/systems faster than the feeling the absolute lack of confidence/security and the feeling of hopelessness by the people. So, without saying as much, I came off the discussion getting this feeling that it us the people who must be vigilant cos the govt do not have a comprehension "big-brother" system to "know" everything like in the movies, but we are getting close.

Sadly, when we are "safe", it also means we are not really "free" cos we have to give up so much basic/essential "freedoms" Living in a fishbowl perhaps?

People have wondered many a times that if we could actually do it differently ? .....
 

redstorm

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#8
Some checkpoints have this new self-serivce terminals for bio-metric passports where you can scan your pass port and thumbprint and pass though...

IIRc they somehow encode the biometric data into the page that shows your photo...
These self-service terminals are not just for those bio-metric passports but also the older types.
 

Yeowww

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#9
These self-service terminals are not just for those bio-metric passports but also the older types.
When i flew back last tuesday, i saw some people going thru those self-service terminals. i tot that they were for the new bio-metric passport. but when i check with the officer, she said both types can be used. however, she also comment that the older type will sometimes encounter problem wor.
 

redstorm

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#10
When i flew back last tuesday, i saw some people going thru those self-service terminals. i tot that they were for the new bio-metric passport. but when i check with the officer, she said both types can be used. however, she also comment that the older type will sometimes encounter problem wor.
Well, not just the older types, sometimes even the bio-metric type will also have such problem.
 

ricohflex

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Feb 24, 2005
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#11
I just got mine recently.
Paid $70.
They only give you 5 years.
I don't care about how the photo looks.
As long as the bio-metric passport gets me through the various countries' immigration gate pronto. Which is part of its purpose for existence.
There is a chip embedded in the passport.
Of course the ICA cannot tell you everything about how this passport works at a security level.
It is meant to deter would-be crooks. And of course terrorists.
They have delinked the citizen's IC number from his new biometric passport number.
Yes I confirm that the old passport can use the machine reader too. I have used the old one at the machine reader before I got the new passport.
Before that I got the "access card". Now it is no longer necessary.
I got no problem with the cost, since it is for 5 years. By comparison, there are people in Sing who gladly pay $110 to eat a freaking hamburger. Or ladies who pay $1,500 for a one-time facial treatment as shown in "** indulgence" TV show that was much criticised in the ST Forum page.
 

jsbn

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Jul 24, 2002
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#12
First thing about my new passport is I am very disappointed with the image quality and those dots make me look like a leprosy sufferer.
Erm... Passport is just passport, want to make until so beautiful? Go and shoot makeover photo lah. :dunno:

Secondly, why it so expansive? doubling the cost..
It sure is Expansive in terms of functionality.

If u mean expensive, I can tell u that I spent $3 to take my basic driving theory test over 10yrs ago. The last I'd checked, prices went up to $11.25 (incl GST).

Is it really for security reasons?
I really do not understand how we and our country can be safer with the bio-metric passport.
Are Singaporeans posing a bigger threat than foreigners when entering into Singapore?
If u dun understand, suggest u read up more and start thinking about things from a security standpoint instead of worrying how ur face looks on the passport photos and watching shows of how ppl crack security devices and say, "Hah! Its not foolproof! What's the use of changing it when its not foolproof? Waste money only."

If u want (or others for that matter), u can try what those fellas tried the next time u go overseas and see what happens. ;)
 

kitkat

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Mar 5, 2005
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#13
First thing about my new passport is I am very disappointed with the image quality and those dots make me look like a leprosy sufferer.

Secondly, why it so expansive? doubling the cost..
Is it really for security reasons?
I really do not understand how we and our country can be safer with the bio-metric passport.
Are Singaporeans posing a bigger threat than foreigners when entering into Singapore?

It is never mean to be fool proof. However, there is a price to be paid for this.

Security system is to create barriers of deterence for terrorist or other pple who may cause chaos in the society. The more barriers we act, the more deterence to would-be trouble maker. Of course, there are disadvantages to this.
 

Big Kahuna

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Dec 15, 2004
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#14
It is never mean to be fool proof. However, there is a price to be paid for this.

Security system is to create barriers of deterence for terrorist or other pple who may cause chaos in the society. The more barriers we act, the more deterence to would-be trouble maker. Of course, there are disadvantages to this.
I agree.

Biometric passport will be more difficult for traditional syndicate to couterfeit....not only that, I think SG also needs to compliant to the immigration standard sets by US gov and their allies so that you have less hassle possible in immigration checking process...well....you choose...to have a slightly more expensive passport or to have to apply for Visa for every visit to country like Japan, US, Canada etc :dunno:
 

wobbly

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Apr 16, 2006
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#15
this is interesting, as there is a fully fledged fight in the UK with a for and against the introduction of a ID cards [UK hasnt had them for 30-40 years and has been fighting terrorism for just as long, if not longer], particularly as they will be bio-metric cards.

there was a recent announcement made that said that the core database will now be made up from other databases [such as driver licences] as they cannot afford to make it from scratch, nor can they now claim to make one robust or reliable enough.
but recent groups pointed out that as many as 2-3000 people had been mistakenly identified as 'problem' people with existing systems [which is what the new database will be pulled from] and that its likely to get worse with the new, untested system.

the for's have said that this will fight against terrorism and crime.
the against have pointed out that the existence of an ID card with a national database [in spain] failed to stop the madrid bombings and does not stop crimes being commited at any level [in any country with ID cards].
the for's quoted as much as 20-50 million pounds was being lost as a result of id-related fraud and the ID card system would stop this.
the against's pointed out that this figure was pulled from an overall figure of some 2.5 billion that is lost overall, at most some 2.5% of the real problem, which they are failing to address.

and that the system is likely to cost the taxpayer 20 billion pounds itself, with some 60 million in addition already spent so far.

and Tony Blair? Mr Blair himself called "a waste of money" back in 1995 and argued against the idea of a national id database. How times have changed.

at the same time:
- China's biometric face recognition system gets government's nod | 20 Feb 2006
- Hackers get personal info from UCLA system | 13 Dec 2006
- Virtual gaming site Second Life hacked, user database accessed | 11 Sep 2006
- Recall demand after cloning of new biometric passports within 48hrs | 17 Nov 2006

london got its 'congestion charge' model from singapore. is the new biometric any good and is it likely that we would also be following singapores model on the biometric id card system?
 

Silence Sky

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Sep 5, 2006
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#16
Erm... Passport is just passport, want to make until so beautiful? Go and shoot makeover photo lah. :dunno:


It sure is Expansive in terms of functionality.

If u mean expensive, I can tell u that I spent $3 to take my basic driving theory test over 10yrs ago. The last I'd checked, prices went up to $11.25 (incl GST).


If u dun understand, suggest u read up more and start thinking about things from a security standpoint instead of worrying how ur face looks on the passport photos and watching shows of how ppl crack security devices and say, "Hah! Its not foolproof! What's the use of changing it when its not foolproof? Waste money only."

If u want (or others for that matter), u can try what those fellas tried the next time u go overseas and see what happens. ;)

With today’s advancement in imaging technology and Singapore always being the best, naturally I am disappointed with the picture quality.

When I go to a normal restaurant and asked for a glass of ice water, is it fair for them to charge me $5 per glass of water?
Sir/Madam… We added a slice of lemon into your drink to freshen it up. We also used a crystal glass to serve you. All these adds to the cost of the your drink.

My point here is whether this new passport is going to serve its intended purpose and that purpose is to keep us and our land safe from terrorists. There is no point in chasing after the latest technology blindly, and at the end of the day my new passport is just as good as my old passport. It will just be a waste of precious resources.

Let me ask a few questions,
If the new passport is really going to keep us safe, did we make sure every terrorist is issued a Bio Metric passport so that they can be closely tagged?
Did we tell them that they must come in from our Immigration check points?
I have my new passport, with no criminal record. One day I decided to join the dark side and my passport can get me into Singapore and US easily hor?

When the Americans fart, you say it smell nice. You think who created all these troubles and wars than try to sell you technologies and weapons?
 

jsbn

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Jul 24, 2002
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#17
Let me ask a few questions,
If the new passport is really going to keep us safe, did we make sure every terrorist is issued a Bio Metric passport so that they can be closely tagged?
Did we tell them that they must come in from our Immigration check points?
No technology & security device is absolutely foolproof. Like I'd said, and always say, "MAN MAKE, MAN CAN BREAK."

Whilst its impossible to create a perfect piece of technology that none can break (ironically, the creators as well), the best thing to do is to keep 1 step ahead of passport forgeries at the very least rather than saying, "Since its shown that the new passports doesn't generate results in security deterrence, why bother to change?"

I have my new passport, with no criminal record. One day I decided to join the dark side and my passport can get me into Singapore and US easily hor?
I'm not really sure how to answer ur question, but u can try and join the dark side and tell us when ur conversion is complete.

All I can say, even with the new passport, u'd probably be arrested all the same. ;p

When the Americans fart, you say it smell nice. You think who created all these troubles and wars than try to sell you technologies and weapons?
I'm not going to deny this fact that foreign and military policies of USA has been less than desirable in creating friends in the Middle East. But still, oft than not, starting a war is much harder than you think and it takes more than just politicians to start a war. Still that's not the point of this discussion on condemning Americans. Back to the discussion...
 

Silence Sky

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Sep 5, 2006
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#18
Hello Jsbn:

I want to share this story,

I heard this old story about technology:

During the space race era, the American’s dream of landing on the moon was delayed for a few years because they do not have a pen to write on the moon. So they spent years to develop a pen that does not rely on gravity to write, and it cost America a lot of money and time.
When in space the Russian Astronauts ask why the American are so late.
The Americans show them their new pen.
The Russians then show those American what is a pencil.

I think we have bought this pen from the American.
Cheers to our Bio Metric Passport.:thumbsup:

I think I read somewhere, our world class driverless train needs a driver on rainy days leh..
 

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