Investment Talk


Jedi

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Jul 17, 2002
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#1
I think that it is better to create a separate thread to continue on the above title instead of OTing in the original thread.

A continuation from here :

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/kopitiam/1250335-boston-marathon-kena-bombed-2.html


not so loud! IRAS reading this . to make 1.4m for $6 per share means $6k per lot...around 200++ lots.
$8 x 200 000 = $1.6 mil (cash) , $500 k (approx 1:3 margining - high risk!)

so...anyone have half a million lying around? or $1.6m ?
anyway for $6 - $14 is not spectacular, it is only 1.3x .
Spectacular is Golden Agri, 15c during financial crisis -> 80c peak that is more than 5x ups. and everyone can afford $150 per lot right? its as expensive as a 50 1.8 lens only :p
No need to afraid of IRAS knocking on your doors as captial gains from stock markets are not taxable.

As for how the lecturer obtained the cash of $500k or $1.6m to buy the shares, I wouldn't want to speculate. A NTU lecturer earns more than $12k per month; annual income of more than $100k easily. He could have savings, properties on hands, etc which can be pledged as collaterals to obtain the financing to buy those shares.

Putting the lecturer aside who is considered as an high income earner, There are many cash rich people around. It is just like we don't know.

You won't know who are cash rich around you such as your closest friends, colleagues, relatives or sometimes even family members because most people do not want people to know their wealth.
 

ricohflex

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Feb 24, 2005
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#2
"Investment" is often used to rip people off. Better than robbing them with a knife or a gun.
 

ahboy168

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#3
With margin trading, you just need 10% deposits as capital. So if you can just afford 20 lots, with margin u can play with 200 lots with 20 lots cost.
But then, it works both ways. Can die faster this way as well ...
 

ahboy168

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#4
"Investment" is often used to rip people off. Better than robbing them with a knife or a gun.
+1
In fact, share market as well. Transfer all the risk to retail "investor". Buy REITS also waste time, all the profit goes back to "REITS Manager" to pay big bonus.
 

Jedi

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#5
+1
In fact, share market as well. Transfer all the risk to retail "investor". Buy REITS also waste time, all the profit goes back to "REITS Manager" to pay big bonus.
All depend on individuals. If you are a speculator or lack of discipline, etc, most of the time you will KO.

I have personally witnessed those successful cases, why are they successful, etc.

For example, a colleague of mine bought Keppel Corp shares donkey years ago at $0.50-$1.00. For the past 2-3 decades, he has been collecting handsome dividends year after year. Put the capital gain aside, his investment return is > 300%. Basically, all his shares are FOC now. He did not sell the shares till today.

Another friend of mine bought Semb Marine at $0.60 20 years ago. Collecting dividends year after year. Same thing, her shares are FOC now.

Even if these companies go bust now, these people are less affected because the shares are FOC.

They told me that they will pass on the shares to their children. As long as the companies are around, their children will continue to enjoy the benefits.

I cannot predict whether these companies will go bust in the future as I am not god, but as far as now in concerned, they are doing reasonablely well.

Yes, 80% of the people have to lose money so that the other 20% will make the money. The is the law of nature. Therefore, you may say that investment is not for everyone. But if you wanted to be in the 20%, you have to invest in some forms of asset classes. Of course, if you strike TOTO, Big Sweep, then it is another story.
 

snowc

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Jan 8, 2006
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#6
I agreed with Jedi. As Benjamin Graham described it “An investment operation is one which, upon thorough analysis, promises safety of principal and an adequate return.”
Anything other than that is speculation.

I had a friend who bought shares after the Sept 11 incident when prices had hit rock-bottom. Currently now in 2013, most of the shares he bought had gained almost 50 percent in capital appreciation not counting any dividends he received. In my own opinion, people nowadays just want and expect instant results. They thought that they could time the market. Unfortunately, not everyone is lucky and get it right most of the time.
 

Shizuma

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Mar 19, 2012
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#7
take a limited risk short view of STI (Straits Times Index, not Sexually Transmitted Infections) with put warrant in 2016 right before elections...a large number of index counters are actually Tumor Sick linked, which may be subject to in depth scrutiny if the administration changes dramatically .

now this is not political post. its for P and L

meow.

if you guys like risk and don't mind doing Malaysia , you can find ways to short their market too. election shake up always interesting.

btw this kitty does not organise coups in Third World countries for profit. i am just a kitty cat
 

G-man

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Mar 2, 2006
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#8
take a limited risk short view of STI (Straits Times Index, not Sexually Transmitted Infections) with put warrant in 2016 right before elections...a large number of index counters are actually Tumor Sick linked, which may be subject to in depth scrutiny if the administration changes dramatically .

now this is not political post. its for P and L

meow.

if you guys like risk and don't mind doing Malaysia , you can find ways to short their market too. election shake up always interesting.

btw this kitty does not organise coups in Third World countries for profit. i am just a kitty cat
The streets are your beat, and you're just walkin'
 

Shizuma

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Mar 19, 2012
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#11
so you read this soft-prawn comic eh
image search for gambling cat la. that's all I can say to a casino croupier right, "meow" ? typing is easier because I haz paws.
 

hellfire88

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2009
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#12
wondering if anybody trade commodities options over here?
 

Shizuma

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Mar 19, 2012
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#14
I'm thinking to start an investment firm with cat managers to attract funds from XMMs and animal lovers.. :bsmilie:
Here's how we will prospect (who can resist!) :

(public domain image)
 

Blur Shadow

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Sep 17, 2005
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#15
Odd that there are quite a number of members here who are so skeptical and cynical about the markets.

While retail investors, being at the bottom of the pile, never get a good deal, financial planning and wealth management is very much a necessity for everyone, IMO.

Unless you plan on working forever...
 

hanzohattori

Senior Member
Apr 16, 2010
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#16
Odd that there are quite a number of members here who are so skeptical and cynical about the markets.

While retail investors, being at the bottom of the pile, never get a good deal, financial planning and wealth management is very much a necessity for everyone, IMO.

Unless you plan on working forever...
While I agree that everyone need a good planning and management. Its not an easy thing for individual/retail investor.
Contrary to popular belief.. its proven that market players are not rational at all. That is why behavioral econ is popular nowadays
You should read Daniel Kahneman best selling book, Thinking fast and slow.
 

Blur Shadow

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Sep 17, 2005
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#17
While I agree that everyone need a good planning and management. Its not an easy thing for individual/retail investor.
Contrary to popular belief.. its proven that market players are not rational at all. That is why behavioral econ is popular nowadays
You should read Daniel Kahneman best selling book, Thinking fast and slow.
Yes, I am aware of behavioral finance.

What I am confused about is your point - are you saying that market is generally irrational and retail investors therefore have a difficulty earning a decent return?

Because a simple buy-and-hold (passive) strategy of most broad indexes can certainly earn you a pretty good return.
 

hellfire88

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2009
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#18
the first book that anyone should read on wealth management i feel is The Richest Man in Babylon
 

Shizuma

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Mar 19, 2012
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#19
+1 for Richest Man in Babylon.
+2 for Richest Man in Jerusalem (10% charity, 10% self)

I will be very honest with my experience as a ex staff of a high powered stock dealing team.

Retail investor is at the bottom of every pile of IPO. Retail investor are the suckers who oversubscribe at ridiculous prices, what large institutionals pay a fraction for. If the retail investor is unlucky, it's possible to lose 10% even on debut day. But for institutionals who pay a fraction only, the 10% is just a decrease in profit...

Operator power - institutionals have power to move the market in their favor whatever way they want. There are ways and means (eg "inline with volume" tactics, queue-balancing, etc) which they can control how stock counters behave (provided there is little liquidity like in SGX).

The worst disadvantage for retail investor is speed. Institutionals have now even made their traders/ dealers redundant and hired a Masters in Fin Engg, etc to code sophisticated algorithms which can read news wire feeds (also a millisecond-to-millisecond updated feed) to decode whether it is bull-news or bear-news and execute orders completely without human intervention (or the need for human authorization), in the matter of milliseconds.

Market Rationality: it is commonly accepted that the market is irrational in the short run and rational in the long run. The problem is defining the short run duration and long run duration! LOL !
 

Jedi

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#20
I will be very honest with my experience as a ex staff of a high powered stock dealing team.
Since you were from a high powered stock dealing house, did you make your first million before you left?
 

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