Interschool Rhythmic Gymnastics(RSG)


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Canonised

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Held last week at Yishun Indoor Stadium.
A lot of opportunities for shooting for the experienced, but it was a total disaster shooting for me, a newbie in sport photog. But juz to share some of my out-of-tune pics..... (didn't know it's so difficult to shoot moving objects!)



 

ptwong

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think your shutterspeed too slow liao...but can understand esp when can't use flash and indoor....err....just to let you know that gymnastic in singapore is a very small close group thing, so you need to be prepare when people ask you to take it down...how i know this...because i see almost the whole national gymnastic squad almost daily :) do you mind sharing what lens you were using?
 

sehsuan

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the shutterspeed is indeed too slow, and most of the focus is somewhat off.

background is too cluttered, were you shooting a f/4 lens instead of a f/2.8 lens? that change alone would give you 1 full stop faster shutter speed. :)

let me give you a tip: shooting from top of the stands (in the background) will help you clean up your shot's background :)

ptwong, you're doing what kind of stuff at bishan? ;)
 

ptwong

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sehsuan said:
the shutterspeed is indeed too slow, and most of the focus is somewhat off.

background is too cluttered, were you shooting a f/4 lens instead of a f/2.8 lens? that change alone would give you 1 full stop faster shutter speed. :)

let me give you a tip: shooting from top of the stands (in the background) will help you clean up your shot's background :)

ptwong, you're doing what kind of stuff at bishan? ;)
ha....i don't really go down to bishan, the girls come to see me and my colleagues for treatment...they really train very hard....
 

Canonised

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ptwong said:
think your shutterspeed too slow liao...but can understand esp when can't use flash and indoor....err....just to let you know that gymnastic in singapore is a very small close group thing, so you need to be prepare when people ask you to take it down...how i know this...because i see almost the whole national gymnastic squad almost daily :) do you mind sharing what lens you were using?
kum sia, kum sia .... first lesson learnt... increase s/speed.... 1000?.. iso 800?
.... 70-200 f2.8
next time maybe can learn from you with the G squad.
 

ptwong

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what iso were you using originally? looks pretty grainy already I'm asking this because was quite surprise that you were using 2.8....
 

Canonised

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ptwong said:
what iso were you using originally? looks pretty grainy already I'm asking this because was quite surprise that you were using 2.8....
i see.... actually i add 10% grain (in PS) to prevent "pirates".
Done on purpose.
probably i used iso400.
 

ptwong

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smart move
 

Canonised

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Talking to the Mirror?
 

nutek

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I was there last Friday but left after the authorities expressed displeasure at the photo taking going on...

I was metering the scene before I left, and the lighting condition was really quite bad, so you'll probably have to bump all the way up to ISO1600 or higher even if you have an f2.8 constant aperture lens, in order to get at least 1/250 to freeze the motion. Here is where a nice 100 F/2 or 135 F/2 prime would be very useful :)
 

Virgo

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nutek said:
I was there last Friday but left after the authorities expressed displeasure at the photo taking going on...

I was metering the scene before I left, and the lighting condition was really quite bad, so you'll probably have to bump all the way up to ISO1600 or higher even if you have an f2.8 constant aperture lens, in order to get at least 1/250 to freeze the motion. Here is where a nice 100 F/2 or 135 F/2 prime would be very useful :)
I'm no expert on gymnastics. However, your first line really irritates me. Why did the authorities expressed displeasure?

I think you're just trying to take some nice pictures, share them out so that the rest can enjoy the nicely taken photos, and probably encourage more people to take part in gymnastics.

I can understand that no flash is allowed during the session, but why the displeasure? They think you have ulterior motives in taking pictures of those gymnasts? I don't think so right?

Singapore still a long, long way to being a developed country in my point of view, at least in this aspect.
 

2100

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Virgo said:
I'm no expert on gymnastics. However, your first line really irritates me. Why did the authorities expressed displeasure?

Singapore still a long, long way to being a developed country in my point of view, at least in this aspect.
I think not. It's not only a matter of privacy issue, but i don't think the poster asked. If he asked the organisers (not the security, usually they have no say), there is a good chance of it being approved. Else not, people will be suspicious. After all, security has to be tightened nowadays after 911, and the venue indeed is full of young gals. And the gals have lots of leg showing. Would you be concerned if your little gal was practising there to have her pic taken by an unauthorised, non-official photog with a bazooka lens?

>>Singapore still a long, long way to being a developed country in my point of view, at least in this aspect.

Sometimes, i think we have to reflect on ourselves too, the local photogs. How often do you see people still whacking pics when it is expressed explicitly that no photography is allowed. No offence meant bro and not saying about anyone here, but sometimes i shoot events (eg, a big celeb doing an event) and stuff i see how some of the local photogs behave (even pro ones) i also shake head. :bheart: Luckily it's not a huge portion
 

ptwong

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I'm no expert on gymnastics. However, your first line really irritates me. Why did the authorities expressed displeasure?

Why can't the authorities express displeasure? Are you an official photographer?

I think you're just trying to take some nice pictures, share them out so that the rest can enjoy the nicely taken photos, and probably encourage more people to take part in gymnastics.

Good Point but how many people take up new sport because they like the picture? Photography maybe but sport? :think:
I can understand that no flash is allowed during the session, but why the displeasure? They think you have ulterior motives in taking pictures of those gymnasts? I don't think so right?

They are a group of young girls so i guess they do have a right to be more protective? and they are wearing pretty tight clothes. Just imagine if your kid was a young female gymnast and there's this guy keep taking pics of it?

Singapore still a long, long way to being a developed country in my point of view, at least in this aspect.

No comments :)

No offence just sharing my views. :)
 

Canonised

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Virgo said:
I'm no expert on gymnastics. However, your first line really irritates me. Why did the authorities expressed displeasure?

I think you're just trying to take some nice pictures, share them out so that the rest can enjoy the nicely taken photos, and probably encourage more people to take part in gymnastics.

I can understand that no flash is allowed during the session, but why the displeasure? They think you have ulterior motives in taking pictures of those gymnasts? I don't think so right?

Singapore still a long, long way to being a developed country in my point of view, at least in this aspect.
OMG!
a simple innocent statement by NUTEK and you gave such a strong reply! Again this is going to create havoc to my inncoent thread with all the 2-side- of-the-coin view. Personally i feel that "control" is good for everyone. Becoz of a little control photog must go thru proper channels and because of the difficulty in getting permission, ppl tend to be more serious about the skills.
As for this event, control is even more important as the girls are all very young (i think they are Primary school students).
 

nutek

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Virgo said:
They think you have ulterior motives in taking pictures of those gymnasts? I don't think so right?
Actually that was one of the reasons given by the organiser when Jodie went to talk to him... :rolleyes:

He (the organiser) does have a point there - since we were not official photographers nor parents nor anyone who had an official pass (there were a couple of guys who showed up later who said they had permission from SSC), we shouldn't have been shooting this event. The matter complicates further because although this is a public event, the subjects were minors (sec sch and pri sch children), so some sensitivity in understanding his (the organiser's) situation is required.

He did relent and give permission eventually however after some talking-to with some of the other photogs there. However when shooting these kinds of school events, I think it is always better to seek out official correspondence and permission first before going down to shoot.
 

Virgo

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nutek said:
He did relent and give permission eventually however after some talking-to with SOME of the other photogs there. However when shooting these kinds of school events, I think it is always better to seek out official correspondence and permission first before going down to shoot.
The double-standard is there. My point is, unless they specifically say NO photography allowed, then why should anyone be stopped? Yet again, the standards don't seemed to be followed here. You mean I can go there and sweet-talk the officials and if I'm charming enough, they'll allow me to take photos?

Again, why some and not all? That's a double-standard to me.

Just my point of view. Anyone can disagree with me.
 

sehsuan

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Virgo said:
I'm no expert on gymnastics. However, your first line really irritates me. Why did the authorities expressed displeasure?

I think you're just trying to take some nice pictures, share them out so that the rest can enjoy the nicely taken photos, and probably encourage more people to take part in gymnastics.

I can understand that no flash is allowed during the session, but why the displeasure? They think you have ulterior motives in taking pictures of those gymnasts? I don't think so right?

Singapore still a long, long way to being a developed country in my point of view, at least in this aspect.
from my not-nice experience from shooting with a certain sport...

i was once told that i was tentatively the official photog for the Nationals, three weeks before the event. then time went by... then it was one week before the event. i was told i was NOT chosen, and i'm cool with it. but the person whom i was talking to, told me that it would be best if i didn't appear at all. i had, in the meanwhile, got to know a lot more parents and their children (happens so that most of them are girls, primary, secondary) and i was trying the sport myself. i was disappointed with the information i received. i soon called, and asked for permission to attend the Nationals. i was granted permission.

on the morning of the actual day, when i met that lady whom i was talking to over the phone, she had plenty of scorn for me. that day, Ah Pao was the only other photographer whom i knew at the venue, and so since i couldn't shoot, i decided to pass him my eqpt to use. suddenly, that lady jumped on us and alleged that i was masterminding someone else to shoot FOR me etc etc. she said something along the lines of, "there are very young children here, and we do not know what you are going to do with the photos" - in a somewhat scornful tone. Ah Pao was there, and both of us were not offered the chance to explain. ever since that day, i have not been back to shoot at the venue, nor shoot the sport. btw, the lady is not a local, but a canadian caucasian. her tone of reply was the really ugly part.

so what this means to say... what you encountered isn't as ugly as what was encountered in my case.

when i was intending to get official clearance from this certain mr phua from MOE/CCAB to gain permission to shoot photos for my friends at the National Schools Artistic Gymnastics comp... i had such a hard time getting him, finally i had some recommendation from a friend in the national team, but all she could do was to refer me to a senior team official, who didn't have the authority, but referred me back to mr phua. when i finally talked to the man, he said that there are official photographers covering the event.

on the day i went to shoot? i was the ONLY guy with a decent sport-capable camera at the venue. this leaves much to be explained. i also come from a sporting background myself, and i pretty much enjoy capturing images of sport (though i admit, shooting gymnastics so far, was pretty boring, given very limited action) and make friends this way. this was the same way i got to know quite a few athletes of the previousmentioned sport, as well as the parents - because their cameras are typically P&S, which can't do f/2.8, ISO1600, 1/200 settings, and i'm able to get them some shots the official photographers can't do.

now, the silly thing i see here, is that jodie, being a former RG herself, is being denied photography... silly, isn't it?
 

Virgo

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Thanx for sharing with us SehSuan.

I find that we often have to live with this 'double standards' from the authorities. These show how fickle-minded/inefficient/inconsistent they can be.
 

2100

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Virgo said:
The double-standard is there. My point is, unless they specifically say NO photography allowed, then why should anyone be stopped? Yet again, the standards don't seemed to be followed here. You mean I can go there and sweet-talk the officials and if I'm charming enough, they'll allow me to take photos?

Again, why some and not all? That's a double-standard to me.

Just my point of view. Anyone can disagree with me.
Actually i wanted to bring this offline as it gets OT, but aiyah, well i hope people reading this can learn something lar. :)
Hmm....I think the reason is pretty simple. If you are granted permission to shoot, that is a privilege. But it's not a right.

You shot F.I.R from afar right? Saw your shots from other galleries. Even if it's a public place, it is still a private event, the organise reserve the right to disallow your intent to shoot it. Reasons could range from you preventing/blocking the official photogs from doing their work....even if you aren't. Same for weddings, that's why some don't allow. You will never know it when you are in the heat of things trying to get a good vantage point to shoot. This is how things work, even if people don't like it. Or the shots you get of your F.I.R celebs, you could very well be selling it at some places (for eg lar). The organisers will never know. This would interfere with the official's/organisers' interest too.

Maybe you can't visualise it. Let me put in this way, say someone leeches your work and use for his own personal gain, no good right? So there has to be control. The owners paid money for their original intent of the event, if they let you have the privilege, then good. It's not a right, can't say that they practise double standards, are inconsistent. Else every tom, dick, harry will be crashing events and stuff.......very messy, i can tell ya.

Maybe one day, you may have the chance to work officially and even for money. Then you can appreciate this better lor. :) I am talking about things in general, not only for this gym event.
 

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