How to judge a picture if its edited in any tool or original

[nrclhr]

Hi,

How to judge a picture if its edited in any tool(Photoshop/Picasa)? Is there any authenticated tool available to tell us that a picture is edited or not? if edited then what n which detail is edited like picture quality or brightness or contrast etc? Thanks

Regards,
Naveed

 

[Rashkae]

Nope. Why do you ask? If you're trying to "reverse engineer" a picture to see what was done to it to make it look good, you're looking in the wrong place. The issue is not with the tools used to edit the picture, but with what was behind the viewfinder to take the picture in the first place.

 

[nrclhr]

Hi Rashkae,

Thanks for your input, actually my company is conducting a photography competition and I am in the panel of judges, we have found few pictures were edited in Photoshop by right clicking on the pictures and checking its properties. We are also using a tool JPEGSnoop to verify the image but I want some expert opinion too.

Thanks

Regards,
Naveed

 

[ArcticFox]

Photo editing is generally allowed in photography competition unless it involves manipulating of the visual details. It's impossible to judge if a photograph has been edited or not, I could simply re save it in Paint and the EXIF information would be lost. Besides, you can't penalize people for cropping their photographs in Photoshop, can you?

A few point to look out for is lost of detail because of increase in exposure using Photoshop or extremely high contrast such that it seems unreal. Even National Geographic has published photograph that has been manipulated before so, no one can really tell.

 

[Rashkae]

Hi Rashkae,

Thanks for your input, actually my company is conducting a photography competition and I am in the panel of judges, we have found few pictures were edited in Photoshop by right clicking on the pictures and checking its properties.

That doesn't mean anything. It could just be that it was developed from RAW->JPEG in PS, or that PS was used to resize the image, or crop, or save for web, etc.

You need a skilled eye to determine if pictures were manipulated. It's a skill, not a tool.

 

[Octarine]

How to judge a picture if its edited in any tool(Photoshop/Picasa)? Is there any authenticated tool available to tell us that a picture is edited or not? if edited then what n which detail is edited like picture quality or brightness or contrast etc?

In usual competitions these adjustments are allowed. Contrast, brightness, exposure, saturation .. that's the very basics that every Photo Lab is doing when printing holiday snaps.
I heard about some guys who developed a tool that can recognize image manipulations like cloning of details to remove others (like the famous pic of Iran rocket launch with the obvious clone cloud of smoke). But that's scientific research or professional investigations. Nothing for your company snaps.
I suggest reviewing your entry conditions. You might accidentally reject a picture that was just processed in camera using some predefined or self-designed Picture Styles.

 

[Reportage]

You can do it like the Canon Photo Marathon where the pics environment was manipulated rather then the pic itself but it all depends what kind of photography contest you are after. Its possible to be a crappy photographer but god-like in photoshop image manipulation and vice versa.

then again, can make it a free for all to show what they can do and let your eyes do the judging. Do you care what model bus brings you to work everyday?

 

[marios_pittas]

Hi Rashkae,

Thanks for your input, actually my company is conducting a photography competition and I am in the panel of judges, we have found few pictures were edited in Photoshop by right clicking on the pictures and checking its properties. We are also using a tool JPEGSnoop to verify the image but I want some expert opinion too.

Thanks

Regards,
Naveed

Hi Naveed

When I first saw your title "How to judge a picture if its edited in any tool or original", my immediate response was: "depending whether it fulfills its purpose or not" since I thought you were asking a question in photography in general. Having read your responses in the discussion, my answer has not changed, but it has become specific to the competition. Every competition has rules and regulations that all must follow. What were the rules and regulations that you asked the contestants to adhere to?

1. No digital editing? Then any photo which was even the slightest editing - including colour adjustment etc etc out they go!

2. Minor adjustments, such as color adjustment etc etc.. then only accept that kind of photos, come up with the winers list and ask to see (and examine) the original shot. Do this BEFORE you announce the winners

3. Reasonable adjustments but that do not alter the context of the photo, same verification as 2 but with a bit more lead-way for the contestants and a bit more head-ache for the judges (as the definition of altering the content of the photo may vary from judge to judge, let alone contestant to contestant).

4. Any amount of editing?

My 2 cents, hope they help

-- marios

 

[night86mare]

for most photo competition, they will request for the ORIGINAL unedited copy of the photograph.

they would probably then proceed to compare it to the original to examine if the degree of photoshoppery is too much to take.

yes, photoshop editing is allowed in most competitions, but not too much. things like cloning out elements that are key in the image, for example, is not allowed.

 

[Rocky78]

Hi Naveed

When I first saw your title "How to judge a picture if its edited in any tool or original", my immediate response was: "depending whether it fulfills its purpose or not" since I thought you were asking a question in photography in general. Having read your responses in the discussion, my answer has not changed, but it has become specific to the competition. Every competition has rules and regulations that all must follow. What were the rules and regulations that you asked the contestants to adhere to?

1. No digital editing? Then any photo which was even the slightest editing - including colour adjustment etc etc out they go!

2. Minor adjustments, such as color adjustment etc etc.. then only accept that kind of photos, come up with the winers list and ask to see (and examine) the original shot. Do this BEFORE you announce the winners

3. Reasonable adjustments but that do not alter the context of the photo, same verification as 2 but with a bit more lead-way for the contestants and a bit more head-ache for the judges (as the definition of altering the content of the photo may vary from judge to judge, let alone contestant to contestant).

4. Any amount of editing?

My 2 cents, hope they help

-- marios

I will go with your point (2).

My personal opinion - too much PP will destroy the originality of the picture and photographer's skill in taking the picture,

 

[catchlights]

AFAIK, some Nikon cameras allow users to embed a Image Authentication Information into the images when taken, and it need a Image Authentication software to detect if the any alternation to the those images with such Image Authentication Information embedded.

but to judge is a picture is a being manipulated, need a trained eyes with many years experience.

hope this help.

 

[another12]

even if there is no picture editing... case in point on the controversial wolf photo, even professionals can be fooled

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8318226.stm

and later on http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats-on/temporary-exhibitions/wpy/statement.jsp

 

[ortega]

look for their mistakes

 

[wootsk]

You can try requesting for the camera raw to be submitted along with the processed photo. But it will remove users like good handphone photographers who can't shoot raw.

 

[nrclhr]

Thanks for your valuable feedback and comments, I totally agree that its very hard to judge the picture if its altered/edited or not.

We did not have any hard rule for photo competition, we just instructed them to send the picture without editing, no RAW format, No Cropping, no resizing etc. we just wanted a picture which is purely taken from the camera only.

But we found that few pictures were edited in Photoshop by checking their properties and they told us that they just saved as the picture in Photoshop thats why their EXIF info is missing. So we disqualified those pictures.

So I just wanted to take a second opinion from you guys and appreciated your feedback. Many Thanks

Regards,
Naveed

 

[night86mare]

any reason why the photo cannot be edited?

do you know dslr gives neutral output, for the sole purpose so that people can edit, for a more malleable picture?

 

[ahwing84]

My 2 cents...

Having EXIF data there or not, doesn't represent the presence photo editting.
EXIF can be editted.

 

[Octarine]

But we found that few pictures were edited in Photoshop by checking their properties and they told us that they just saved as the picture in Photoshop thats why their EXIF info is missing. So we disqualified those pictures.

Since you earlier said "No RAW" what options are there for those shooting in RAW? People have to convert to jpg and if they tick the option "Reduce Meta Data" in 'Save for web' then automatically the exif data are removed. But this does not mean any editing to the picture itself.
Quite a strange way...

 

[wootsk]

That is why, I say that it is better to send raw files with the photo as well, why can't people just listen. TS, if raw isn't in the list of options, how do you expect people convert it to jpeg and send to you. Most people I know uses a photo processing/ editing software to convert their raw files to jpeg.

 

[tirimasu]

i will use my eyes to judge.