Help needed - Clients refused to pay for service rendered

[grey_fox]

Sorry to be hopping onto the bandwagon and hijacking this thread but can I ask something here?

Here's a different scernario to a probably similar case.

My actual day shots were taken and written agreement was on a 2 week basis after my wedding night for my coffeetable album (along with the dinner photos) to be ready and delivered.

2 weeks past by and a call was made to ask where my album was, he delayed. Next 2 weeks I called again and again he said not ready yet. A 'brother' during my wedding saw this same photog at another friend's wedding preparation (almost 9 months after my wedding) so I asked him to ask this photog where the hell is my album.

It took that fella about 10 months to give me my album even after constant reminders from me, my wife and I even got my parents & in-laws to call and remind him. Take note, I did pay a deposit of (I think) $500 for the deposit.

The remainding payment, I wanted to pay but wanted him to come down to my place to give me an explanation WHY it took him almost 10 months to give me my album when the agreement was on a 2 week basis. I had the cheque prepared however he never showed his face and only asked an old man to come down to collect the cheque which I refused to give the cheque to.

After that, he had the cheek to send me an SMS saying he will take legal action against me. I was more than willing to provide the balance payment as long as he came down to my place, and answered my query to why it took him 10 months to provide me my photos. My in-laws, parents, family & friends waited 10 months to get their copy of photos to which, the "mood" of sorts is no longer there.

So in this case, is it justified that my wife & I refuse to dish out the remaining payment?

 

[hongsien]

Sorry to be hopping onto the bandwagon and hijacking this thread but can I ask something here?

Here's a different scernario to a probably similar case.

My actual day shots were taken and written agreement was on a 2 week basis after my wedding night for my coffeetable album (along with the dinner photos) to be ready and delivered.

2 weeks past by and a call was made to ask where my album was, he delayed. Next 2 weeks I called again and again he said not ready yet. A 'brother' during my wedding saw this same photog at another friend's wedding preparation (almost 9 months after my wedding) so I asked him to ask this photog where the hell is my album.

It took that fella about 10 months to give me my album even after constant reminders from me, my wife and I even got my parents & in-laws to call and remind him. Take note, I did pay a deposit of (I think) $500 for the deposit.

The remainding payment, I wanted to pay but wanted him to come down to my place to give me an explanation WHY it took him almost 10 months to give me my album when the agreement was on a 2 week basis. I had the cheque prepared however he never showed his face and only asked an old man to come down to collect the cheque which I refused to give the cheque to.

After that, he had the cheek to send me an SMS saying he will take legal action against me. I was more than willing to provide the balance payment as long as he came down to my place, and answered my query to why it took him 10 months to provide me my photos. My in-laws, parents, family & friends waited 10 months to get their copy of photos to which, the "mood" of sorts is no longer there.

So in this case, is it justified that my wife & I refuse to dish out the remaining payment?

I think this is not a 'similar' case as the pics are ready to be printed within the 2 weeks time period as agreed upon........in your case the photographer eloped, I think its better that you start your own thread as it may confuse people

HS

 

[archlover]

i dont understand...
a newly wed couple who didn't want their wedding photos... :|
they didnt realize that the photographer can use their photo for anything he wants if they keep not paying is it?

 

[aryanto]

they may not have enough money - collected less angbao...

 

[godzilla60]

It is best to consult a lawyer and have his advice on the matter.

Your quotation to the client may be interpreted as an offer subject to acceptance by any method as imposed by you. If you require the client to pay a deposit of $500 and he did pay, it may be implied that he had accepted the offer. And your work carried out may imply that you have carried out your obligation.

Your sms/email may be good evidence to show that he has intentions to enter into a contract. Black and white is not necessary though it will provide good enough ammo to argue your case.

Sometimes, your case may not even reach the SCT. By consulting a lawyer and if you have strong case, you can seek the lawyer's advice on the possible actions. Usually, a letter of demand from a lawyer delivered by their office's hand for monies owed plus any compensation for the lawyer fee may be sufficient to convince the client into paying/negotiating. For more stubborn clients, you have to weigh the pros and cons of bringing it further up the legal ladder but a responsible lawyer should be able to advice you. But beware of actions that you take on your own that may bring a countersuit such as defamation and libel.

bottomline: consult a lawyer to get a good legal advice. it may not be as complicated or hopeless as you think.

 

[ArchRival]

I doubt TS has any case at all. Because there is the issue of the deposit. Deposit is what TS gets to keep and what the couple forgo when the deal does not go through, and that's probably the end of it

 

[godzilla60]

I doubt TS has any case at all. Because there is the issue of the deposit. Deposit is what TS gets to keep and what the couple forgo when the deal does not go through, and that's probably the end of it

it actually depends on what is quoted in the quotation. Deposit is usually forfeited when user agrees to it but later cancel. However, when work is already done upon the confirmation of the client, there is a possibility that the rest of the money owed can be recovered which of course depends on how the quotation and discussions are structured.

a lawyer will still be the best person to consult.

 

[DeSwitch]

Maybe client saw yr PDF sample and photos not up to their expectation so they decide not to get the full size photos from you?


(just an assumption)

 

[pixie_genie]

Thanks to all for your helpful advise. We'll digest thru some of it and act on it.

 

[pixie_genie]

Maybe client saw yr PDF sample and photos not up to their expectation so they decide not to get the full size photos from you?


(just an assumption)

No, on the contrary they like it a lot and in fact hinted they want the high res photos soon but when I asked for payment, that's when the delays and excuses start coming. Quite a shame, they had lavish and extravagant dinner at a 5 * hotel ...sigh...guess it's all for show.

 

[pixie_genie]

Thanks Reflection ,Edwin, Frances, Agape and xMetalx for your very helpful and practical advice. For freelancers like me, its a learning experience.

Technically, they haven't taken anything from you except your coverage services. I assume that your initial deposit doesn't even cover your service fees, hence the reason why you're feeling so frustrated. The agreement was drafted by you, so you have no choice but to live with this.

My recommendation:

Payments up to the wedding day should cover your service fees AT THE BARE MINIMUM. I personally collect 100% by the wedding day, since like yourself, I have encountered bad clients early on.

Want to take things one step further? Album design will be done without the consultation of the client. If you feel that you want to consult your client, be prepared for delays - people are busy (I hope).

Want to take things even further? Alternatively, if you decide to take payments for everything except the album, and want to consult your client on the album, then you have to set a deadline. Beyond the deadline, you can state that you are no longer responsible for designing the album. A little extreme, but hey, there are people out there who don't care how you feel.

Simply put, you are in control of how your clients behave. Educate them.

 

[cabbySHE]

Actually, this should be in the Photo Biz...but anyhow...the Client has a grip on TS pressure point and a deadly one.

As stated in the post...they are " freelancers " which in legal terms...they are " not professional ". So when you file a claim in the small claims tribunal, can't even provide a business regn nos. the case will be thrown out. So it's a no case scenario.

Many freelancers falls into the pit of not registering themself. Not knowing that once registered, your name/call card, invoice, receipt quotation etc will bear your biz regn nos. and it speak loudly...I mean business.

 

[pixie_genie]

Actually, this should be in the Photo Biz...but anyhow...the Client has a grip on TS pressure point and a deadly one.

As stated in the post...they are " freelancers " which in legal terms...they are " not professional ". So when you file a claim in the small claims tribunal, can't even provide a business regn nos. the case will be thrown out. So it's a no case scenario.

Many freelancers falls into the pit of not registering themself. Not knowing that once registered, your name/call card, invoice, receipt quotation etc will bear your biz regn nos. and it speak loudly...I mean business.

Actually we do have a biz regn no. as we registered our biz but just that we only accept assignments on a freelance basis....

 

[yqt]

In extreme case, go to their house or better still their parent's house ( the richer of the 2 families ) to look for them, tell them that you can't get in touch with them and they have not paid you for the job yet.

 

[jopel]

In extreme case, go to their house or better still their parent's house ( the richer of the 2 families ) to look for them, tell them that you can't get in touch with them and they have not paid you for the job yet.

i rather print their photos and paste around their house and script a notice on the wall - "so & so, please come to collect your photos."


or ask their neighbours to inform them of their collection.

 

[Reflection]

My advice: Assuming that you've already sent out ample notification in the form of emails, sms, and/or written letters - put this aside for now and move on. Whatever the case is, the ball's in their court now. If you take the initiative and play the wrong move, it could end up giving you a swift kick in the ass.

 

[fotoudavid]

just ask them are they facing money problems etc, and they offer $1k first, so u shd take it, but do not release anything to them.

 

[artspraken]

Since you do not have a duly executed contract, do you have emails from client confirming the instructions to proceed to do the work (coffee table, shooting etc etc)? You need written records of the client's instructions as evidence to make clear that client instructed services to be performed. Otherwise, the client can easily bullshit

Further, the photographs are also themselves evidence of the fact the client permitted you to perform the services (since the photos show you were in their premises taking pics right?)

Even without a signed contract, if you can show that the work was done and the benefit was received, the law of restitution will award due monetary compensation based on the doctrine of quantum meruit (you can google quantum meruit for details.)

However, you need a lawyer to fight your case properly, and the legal fees involved will likely render nugatory the rewards of any SCT claim you pursue. If you do the SCT yourself (lawyer is good but not absolutely necessary), then it really depends on judge.

If you had a properly signed contract, things will be must easier and straight forward.

IMHO, you should always collect all the $$$ upfront before the night of the wedding. There is always a risk that the couple will default after the wedding as a result of insufficient ang paos. Nowadays har....so many couple not enough savings also dare to book 5star hotel ....later ang paos cannot break even.....these kind of couple will default wan. so har....u better make sure u collect all ur $$$ first. otherwise, the couple aeroplane you will hong kan

 

[artspraken]

details how to DIY your SCT

http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/index.aspx

 

[ed9119]

just trash the images and move on....