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HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?


Bukitimah

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2010
1,269
6
38
Singapore
#1
Singaporean are interested in FOOD, then the next best is about how property prices have increased and they have 'made' $. While Singapore is a free market with willing buyers and willing sellers. How have all these affected us?

Personally, I am OK if there is a willing buyer who wishes to pay $1 million for a toilet. That is his money and decision. BUT when public housing also increase due the change in market value :thumbsd::thumbsd: it's citizen are under pressure.

Public housing is for the citizen. The land cost or rather the perceived opportunity cost should not be factored in when they compute the cost of the flat. Of course the government don't want to sell a HDB to his people at $200K to make $80K and then he resell it later at $1 million. HDB 'lost' $800K in 5 years!

In order to ensure the HDB don't loose out in this equation. They should set a quota on how much the HDB has appreciated due to inflation. Any sale price above that, it is taxable to discourage profit. This way, those not in this game will not loose out and the majority are not!

Leave the private properties out of this. Whether they are selling at $500K or $5 million, it is a risk they have to take.:nono:

What is you take?
 

htthach

New Member
Feb 26, 2006
1,070
0
0
dover
#2
The rich will benefit, the poor, well not really.

The rich who have many houses can afford to play the buy and sell game. And if prices keep increasing, they'll earn big big.
The poor? well, you only have 1 house, even it's valued at $1 mil now that $1 mil is paper number unless you sell the house and live on the street because the next equivalent house you buy is probably $1.2 mil. Just like the guy who got the 5D mk III wish that price wouldn't drop that fast. The one who want to buy his first 5D mk III is wishing for extreme price drop. Who is the biggest landlord now? Does any landlord want to watch his properties losing value? However, if property price drops, the whole econ suffers.

And private properties cannot be left out of this as they have indirect effect to public housing price. Finally, if there were only a bunch of Singaporeans selling house to each other, price would not appreciate that fast.
 

Halfmoon

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2005
4,590
6
0
Hougang, Singapore.
#4
HDB started as an affordable housing for the people.........

It is affordable.... you pay 30 years loan...... and use up majority of your CPF money!!!
 

ArchRival

New Member
Sep 17, 2006
559
4
0
#5
Depending on how the US handle the fiscal cliff, plus the economic crisis in Europe, there is a chance the world may slip into recession. This could be the last chance we have to burst this property bubble. And this is a good thing, because sg's economy is not sustainable for the next decade, and if the bubble burst when our economy is going down, things will be alot worse.
 

kiwi2

Deregistered
Feb 4, 2003
953
4
0
Visit site
#6
However much we protest and reason out, some minister and maybe the PM will once in a while give a speech to tell us: HDB FLATS ARE STILL AFFORDABLE! The Straits Times will report BTO flats have never been built so many like before.

"Don't worry. We have grants. We have 30-year housing loans. The poor will not be left out. HDB flats today are not any much smaller than the past. They are still cozy."

Aren't the above statements all too familiar? They are continually being drummed into our heads like a broken CD player.

Essentially, after listening to all that, the low and middle income people will have that virtual pacifiers stuffed back into their mouths to shut up their cries. "Stop whining! Now go back to your work to help improve the Singapore economy!"

As for the upper class and rich, and you-know-who (*Ah hem* CENSORED), it's *CHING CHING CHING*!!! More money in, please!

Welcome to Psychological Warfare of the 21st century!

If you ain't rich in Singapore, you are made to stand by the muddy sidelines. It's just short of saying: "Get out of my elite uncaring face!" (Who can forget that infamous tagline!)
 

Bukitimah

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2010
1,269
6
38
Singapore
#7
I just want to give my personal observation. Many today's 'leaders' holding high positions in government or GLC are scholars. They were groom from JC days and upon completing their scholarship, drafted into the army or police or government linked companies.

You would have noticed they spent their entire 'working' life in a very protective and closed environment. Especially the army where there are virtually NO interaction with the general public. Eventually, they will be drafted into politic or another GLC to head the organization. They are actually very lost and therefore will start to 'recruit' people they are very comfortable in their previous organization thinking it has 'worked' there, therefore it will work here.

So, if they are from the army, they will pull their army friends. Police, same there. However, in real life, you are working with the majority that are not from the same organization they came from. So the exposure and experience part will be lacking.

The assumption of cut and paste will work is flawed. World economy changes like the weather and with 50% population coming from various countries, they don't have to follow what you think is norm in the army and they have never served anyway. We will see the real Singapore when thing arent that rosy and where is the 5.5 million that are still around. HDB still worth $1 M?
 

kiwi2

Deregistered
Feb 4, 2003
953
4
0
Visit site
#9
Actually I don't care if they are from the military or if they used to score tons of 'A's during their student days.

I used to say I don't even care that they are the highest paid politicians in the world governing such a small country. As long as every one is happy, life here is bright, that's good. If you do a good job to make people happy, I think you deserve good pay.

BUT!!! Recently, I do question and I have utterly no respect for these people up there, given the many problems that we have experienced. Sure, problems do happen, but when you look at how they always justify their humongous salaries and compare with the kinds of output we get, there are big question marks here and there.

For eg, the way the HDB flats are being priced and managed recently is often a topic of debate and on the ground level, we know there are many justified, unhappy people.

But like I said, everyone has that virtual pacifier stuffed into their mouths. What can be done about it? We cry for a while. And then those guys up there will push the pacifier into your mouth. Just suck it and listen to them play back that broken CD about how HDB flats are affordable and how Blah blah blah....

If you are bold enough to protest in the streets or go on strike, you get thrown into jail like the recent China bus drivers.

So what's left? Write in to the forums and wait a letter from so-and-so: "Thank you for your mail. We would like to assure you that....."

Or tune in to Channel 5 for some boring stupid talk with the PM or some minister inside pacifying you with their sweet-tongued words "Don't worry... No one will be left out. There's always an AFFORDABLE flat for everyone."
 

kei1309

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2010
7,333
24
38
Earth
www.facebook.com
#10
However much we protest and reason out, some minister and maybe the PM will once in a while give a speech to tell us: HDB FLATS ARE STILL AFFORDABLE! The Straits Times will report BTO flats have never been built so many like before.

"Don't worry. We have grants. We have 30-year housing loans. The poor will not be left out. HDB flats today are not any much smaller than the past. They are still cozy."

Aren't the above statements all too familiar? They are continually being drummed into our heads like a broken CD player.

Essentially, after listening to all that, the low and middle income people will have that virtual pacifiers stuffed back into their mouths to shut up their cries. "Stop whining! Now go back to your work to help improve the Singapore economy!"

As for the upper class and rich, and you-know-who (*Ah hem* CENSORED), it's *CHING CHING CHING*!!! More money in, please!

Welcome to Psychological Warfare of the 21st century!

If you ain't rich in Singapore, you are made to stand by the muddy sidelines. It's just short of saying: "Get out of my elite uncaring face!" (Who can forget that infamous tagline!)
Actually I don't care if they are from the military or if they used to score tons of 'A's during their student days.

I used to say I don't even care that they are the highest paid politicians in the world governing such a small country. As long as every one is happy, life here is bright, that's good. If you do a good job to make people happy, I think you deserve good pay.

BUT!!! Recently, I do question and I have utterly no respect for these people up there, given the many problems that we have experienced. Sure, problems do happen, but when you look at how they always justify their humongous salaries and compare with the kinds of output we get, there are big question marks here and there.

For eg, the way the HDB flats are being priced and managed recently is often a topic of debate and on the ground level, we know there are many justified, unhappy people.

But like I said, everyone has that virtual pacifier stuffed into their mouths. What can be done about it? We cry for a while. And then those guys up there will push the pacifier into your mouth. Just suck it and listen to them play back that broken CD about how HDB flats are affordable and how Blah blah blah....

If you are bold enough to protest in the streets or go on strike, you get thrown into jail like the recent China bus drivers.

So what's left? Write in to the forums and wait a letter from so-and-so: "Thank you for your mail. We would like to assure you that....."

Or tune in to Channel 5 for some boring stupid talk with the PM or some minister inside pacifying you with their sweet-tongued words "Don't worry... No one will be left out. There's always an AFFORDABLE flat for everyone."
then maybe you'll make a better minister. why don't you apply then?

everyone has their opinions, stupid or smart. they love to comment about everything, even when they've never been in that position before.

are you the smart one, or the stupid one?
 

Halfmoon

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2005
4,590
6
0
Hougang, Singapore.
#11
then maybe you'll make a better minister. why don't you apply then?

everyone has their opinions, stupid or smart. they love to comment about everything, even when they've never been in that position before.

are you the smart one, or the stupid one?
Genius or madness... the divide is just a thin line.
 

Bukitimah

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2010
1,269
6
38
Singapore
#14
Whether you are providing a service or running an organization, you will be subjected to being scrutinized and many difference options even by those directly 'benefiting' from it.

You are not obligation to satisfy every single person BuT if majority are against it, then be it how good your intention, it is not well received. As a leader, you must have an open mind set and work with all levels of the people. Otherwise, you are missing out in many things. Heard of the emperor new cloths story?

Similarly what we deem right and logical here maybe stupid else where
 

kiwi2

Deregistered
Feb 4, 2003
953
4
0
Visit site
#15
I don't know what you are driving at. But these are my further comments:

then maybe you'll make a better minister. why don't you apply then?
Just because many others and I are criticizing about the ministers' bad judgement and work has nothing to do about us being better ministers. I think that's a very sharp and thoughtless comment to make. I do think that if one comments negatively for the sake of it without valid reasons, that's lame and should be shot down. But the topic of housing is close to the hearts of many and we all know there were serious flaws in the way HDB flats were managed in the past. If you don't know, I invite you to dig out old articles in the newspapers and listen to what the commoners have to say. Then evaluate yourself if their complaints are reasonable. Better yet, talk to people who face such real life problems.

For me, I praise where praise is due. And I will give negative comments when I think a situation deserves it. And I do substantiate myself. Period.

I also disagree to some extent when people say Singaporeans always complain. Have they read reports of how London subway drivers who earned 50,000 GBP a year go on strike because they wanted better deals? Have they heard how a burglar sued a home owner when the former got hurt while trying to steal things from the house? Have they read how a rapist defended himself by saying it wasn't his fault and the girl deserved to be raped because she had dressed provocatively? Did they see how people protest in the streets because of low pay, how government buildings were burnt down because of government policies they deemed as unfair? So whoever says only Singaporeans complain? We are already so so so mild!

Anyway, since you put it that way, make sure next time you don't ever comment a food tastes lousy at a restaurant or hawker center. Can you cook better? Why don't you be a cook? Make sure you don't comment a movie is boring. Can you be a better director? Why don't you apply to be an actor? Maybe get someone to knock you on the head to remind you of your own words above. :bsmilie:

everyone has their opinions, stupid or smart.
So what's your point here? Seems to contradict the previous unfriendly comment. So you said it yourself. If you think the MND minister here has been top-notch, that's YOUR opinion. I don't question it. Say why it is so if you wish to.

they love to comment about everything, even when they've never been in that position before.
Another very simplistic and accusatory remark from you. Oh so you mean one must be a minister in order to comment on another minister? :dunno::bsmilie::kok:

I don't know who you are. You may be that little boy sitting on a high chair typing stuffs. You may be a middle-aged man who has it going because you've bought your nice cozy HDB flat at a reasonable price. Or you may be an old granny past retirement and bored, living in a private mansion. Seriously, I really don't care.

But I will say again, do your research to see what has happened to Singapore's public housing scene. You don't have to trace back all the way from the '60s. Just go from a very recent year 2000 to the present. Further back if you want. Read alongside how the government shapes its policies, related to housing, population management and others. Then empathize if there are valid reasons why people are unhappy. Even if you don't agree for whatever reason, so be it. Tell us why. Don't shoot others down simply because perhaps you haven't been in the same position before. The thing about humans is that when something doesn't befall them, they feel so detached.

Reminds me of the local specialist doctor who had everything going for him. He saw patients every day and to him, they were just that -- mere people whom he treated and when he went home, he had the luxury of wealth to enjoy. Until one day, cancer struck him. And very hard. And when he himself was a patient, he realized how much he had taken things for granted. How as a doctor, he had not fully viewed his patients as how they suffered their illness. And how, as a patient himself, he realized he was as human as anyone else.

are you the smart one, or the stupid one?
What kind of question is this?? Trick question to trap me? Whoever openly comments himself or herself as smart? I won't and I don't think that way. Am I stupid? I don't think so also. Why does it matter anyway? If you must know, I think I am confident of myself. I think I can hold myself well. I think if the minister were to come one on one with me, I could take him on.

I don't know why it mattered but since you asked. So are you the smart or stupid one yourself?

Well, I didn't say this myself but it's from the PM and his gang: The government needs to be paid a lot because they want to prevent corruption, and they feel they are doing very important jobs in running this country. They need to get only the best. The scholars because supposedly, they scored A's in their school exams so they should know how to exercise good judgement. Well, look at the below:

1. Preventing corruption is good. But it has been reported even former scholars who were paid well, as civil servants or otherwise, have been charged with corruption.

2. Mas Selamat - The one who was limping and unarmed escaped from prison, under the watchful well-trained gurkhas. Why? Cos the window was broken and the TWO CCTV that day were not working.

3. The Youth Olympics held here went over-budget by a few hundred million dollars.
MCYS minister: We miscalculated on YOG budget | SingaporeScene - Yahoo! News Singapore

4. Lui Tuck Yew admitted the MRT train breakdowns was due to negligence.
Minister Lui Tuck Yew: Gov't accepts share of blame for December breakdowns - Yahoo! News Singapore

5. Teo Chee Hean said the Singapore government could have planned better.
Govt admits: We could have planned better - Yahoo! News Singapore

6. Instead of admitting there was an oversight and mistake in purchasing over-priced Brompton bikes, Khaw Boon Wan defended with weak arguments. He even made a statement later about how his butt had hurt trying to negotiate slopes in the park and hence, an expensive bike like the Brompton was essential for the park rangers. Noticed how he deftly avoided answering the question if it was justified to buy such expensive bikes when other cheaper ones sufficed. He turned focus instead on how his butt hurt and how hard a job it is for the rangers. Excellent taiji!

Minister Khaw defends NParks' bicycles purchase - Channel NewsAsia

7. The MND minister allowed private developers to build HDB flats by the fanciful name of "DBSS". People complained like crazy how expensive they were. Mah Bow Tan ignored. Khaw Boon Wan said very wrongly DBSS is not HDB. Why did Mah Bow Tan build so many of these expensive HDB flats when there was already such a long waiting list of people (commoners!) queuing to buy decently priced HDB flats? (Must I really be a minister myself to question such moves?) Why was it that only after Khaw Boon Wan took over as MND minister did he changed all the nonsense and began to build a lot more HDB flats? So what had the government been doing before that?

$880,000: Priciest flats launched in Tampines

DBSS is not HDB, says Khaw - Yahoo! News Singapore

I rest my case. You want more of such Big boo-boos by the government? Don't be lazy, Mr or Miss Kei one-three-o-nine. Go dig them out yourself.

It's a Friday! I love Fridays and I won't be bogged down arguing such stuffs. I've made my points. You want to prove yourself right or feel the urgent need to justify yourself to boost your ego, go ahead. List your grouses here. I'm done. And out!

Happy weekend everyone else!
 

edutilos-

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2010
6,031
17
38
The Universe
www.facebook.com
#16
Hi kiwi2,

Just joining in to share some of my thoughts - I've read your post with great interest, and I suppose the demands on and expectations of the politicians are quite high for many reasons (high pay, etc). I think your posting is a reflection of that, and that is something which I have my own views on (more on that later). Just wanted to point out that points 2 and 6 don't seem to relate to "exercising good judgement".

That aside, I think it is clear that we all want our leaders to be the best. The future is always uncertain, and who knows what tomorrow will bring? Let's also remember that the stance has softened through the years - many of the links you've posted, to me, are signs of this, and we should try to give a little credit for that. Personally, I do think that there is an increasing (and unhealthy) trend of linking problems to a single person. Maybe it was unintentional, but at the start of your post, it was problems, then it became about individuals. Don't get me wrong - accountability is a good thing, but let's not forget that every single problem - be it MRT train breakdowns, planning for population growth, building of HDB flats - all these issues involve many people (or "commoners" as you say), not just a single person or organization. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Cheers, and happy weekend to you as well!
 

kei1309

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2010
7,333
24
38
Earth
www.facebook.com
#17
I don't know what you are driving at. But these are my further comments:



Just because many others and I are criticizing about the ministers' bad judgement and work has nothing to do about us being better ministers. I think that's a very sharp and thoughtless comment to make. I do think that if one comments negatively for the sake of it without valid reasons, that's lame and should be shot down. But the topic of housing is close to the hearts of many and we all know there were serious flaws in the way HDB flats were managed in the past. If you don't know, I invite you to dig out old articles in the newspapers and listen to what the commoners have to say. Then evaluate yourself if their complaints are reasonable. Better yet, talk to people who face such real life problems.

For me, I praise where praise is due. And I will give negative comments when I think a situation deserves it. And I do substantiate myself. Period.

I also disagree to some extent when people say Singaporeans always complain. Have they read reports of how London subway drivers who earned 50,000 GBP a year go on strike because they wanted better deals? Have they heard how a burglar sued a home owner when the former got hurt while trying to steal things from the house? Have they read how a rapist defended himself by saying it wasn't his fault and the girl deserved to be raped because she had dressed provocatively? Did they see how people protest in the streets because of low pay, how government buildings were burnt down because of government policies they deemed as unfair? So whoever says only Singaporeans complain? We are already so so so mild!

Anyway, since you put it that way, make sure next time you don't ever comment a food tastes lousy at a restaurant or hawker center. Can you cook better? Why don't you be a cook? Make sure you don't comment a movie is boring. Can you be a better director? Why don't you apply to be an actor? Maybe get someone to knock you on the head to remind you of your own words above. :bsmilie:



So what's your point here? Seems to contradict the previous unfriendly comment. So you said it yourself. If you think the MND minister here has been top-notch, that's YOUR opinion. I don't question it. Say why it is so if you wish to.



Another very simplistic and accusatory remark from you. Oh so you mean one must be a minister in order to comment on another minister? :dunno::bsmilie::kok:

I don't know who you are. You may be that little boy sitting on a high chair typing stuffs. You may be a middle-aged man who has it going because you've bought your nice cozy HDB flat at a reasonable price. Or you may be an old granny past retirement and bored, living in a private mansion. Seriously, I really don't care.

But I will say again, do your research to see what has happened to Singapore's public housing scene. You don't have to trace back all the way from the '60s. Just go from a very recent year 2000 to the present. Further back if you want. Read alongside how the government shapes its policies, related to housing, population management and others. Then empathize if there are valid reasons why people are unhappy. Even if you don't agree for whatever reason, so be it. Tell us why. Don't shoot others down simply because perhaps you haven't been in the same position before. The thing about humans is that when something doesn't befall them, they feel so detached.

Reminds me of the local specialist doctor who had everything going for him. He saw patients every day and to him, they were just that -- mere people whom he treated and when he went home, he had the luxury of wealth to enjoy. Until one day, cancer struck him. And very hard. And when he himself was a patient, he realized how much he had taken things for granted. How as a doctor, he had not fully viewed his patients as how they suffered their illness. And how, as a patient himself, he realized he was as human as anyone else.



What kind of question is this?? Trick question to trap me? Whoever openly comments himself or herself as smart? I won't and I don't think that way. Am I stupid? I don't think so also. Why does it matter anyway? If you must know, I think I am confident of myself. I think I can hold myself well. I think if the minister were to come one on one with me, I could take him on.

I don't know why it mattered but since you asked. So are you the smart or stupid one yourself?

Well, I didn't say this myself but it's from the PM and his gang: The government needs to be paid a lot because they want to prevent corruption, and they feel they are doing very important jobs in running this country. They need to get only the best. The scholars because supposedly, they scored A's in their school exams so they should know how to exercise good judgement. Well, look at the below:

1. Preventing corruption is good. But it has been reported even former scholars who were paid well, as civil servants or otherwise, have been charged with corruption.

2. Mas Selamat - The one who was limping and unarmed escaped from prison, under the watchful well-trained gurkhas. Why? Cos the window was broken and the TWO CCTV that day were not working.

3. The Youth Olympics held here went over-budget by a few hundred million dollars.
MCYS minister: We miscalculated on YOG budget | SingaporeScene - Yahoo! News Singapore

4. Lui Tuck Yew admitted the MRT train breakdowns was due to negligence.
Minister Lui Tuck Yew: Gov't accepts share of blame for December breakdowns - Yahoo! News Singapore

5. Teo Chee Hean said the Singapore government could have planned better.
Govt admits: We could have planned better - Yahoo! News Singapore

6. Instead of admitting there was an oversight and mistake in purchasing over-priced Brompton bikes, Khaw Boon Wan defended with weak arguments. He even made a statement later about how his butt had hurt trying to negotiate slopes in the park and hence, an expensive bike like the Brompton was essential for the park rangers. Noticed how he deftly avoided answering the question if it was justified to buy such expensive bikes when other cheaper ones sufficed. He turned focus instead on how his butt hurt and how hard a job it is for the rangers. Excellent taiji!

Minister Khaw defends NParks' bicycles purchase - Channel NewsAsia

7. The MND minister allowed private developers to build HDB flats by the fanciful name of "DBSS". People complained like crazy how expensive they were. Mah Bow Tan ignored. Khaw Boon Wan said very wrongly DBSS is not HDB. Why did Mah Bow Tan build so many of these expensive HDB flats when there was already such a long waiting list of people (commoners!) queuing to buy decently priced HDB flats? (Must I really be a minister myself to question such moves?) Why was it that only after Khaw Boon Wan took over as MND minister did he changed all the nonsense and began to build a lot more HDB flats? So what had the government been doing before that?

$880,000: Priciest flats launched in Tampines

DBSS is not HDB, says Khaw - Yahoo! News Singapore

I rest my case. You want more of such Big boo-boos by the government? Don't be lazy, Mr or Miss Kei one-three-o-nine. Go dig them out yourself.

It's a Friday! I love Fridays and I won't be bogged down arguing such stuffs. I've made my points. You want to prove yourself right or feel the urgent need to justify yourself to boost your ego, go ahead. List your grouses here. I'm done. And out!

Happy weekend everyone else!
you did exactly what i expected you to do.

thank you for falling for the trap already.

and btw, yes i do know about all those things you've listed down.

and also... you do know that humans err right? and bro edutilos is right. you may be hammering out all those issues, but your thinking is still naive.
 

kei1309

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2010
7,333
24
38
Earth
www.facebook.com
#18
I don't know what you are driving at. But these are my further comments:



Just because many others and I are criticizing about the ministers' bad judgement and work has nothing to do about us being better ministers. I think that's a very sharp and thoughtless comment to make. I do think that if one comments negatively for the sake of it without valid reasons, that's lame and should be shot down. But the topic of housing is close to the hearts of many and we all know there were serious flaws in the way HDB flats were managed in the past. If you don't know, I invite you to dig out old articles in the newspapers and listen to what the commoners have to say. Then evaluate yourself if their complaints are reasonable. Better yet, talk to people who face such real life problems.

For me, I praise where praise is due. And I will give negative comments when I think a situation deserves it. And I do substantiate myself. Period.

I also disagree to some extent when people say Singaporeans always complain. Have they read reports of how London subway drivers who earned 50,000 GBP a year go on strike because they wanted better deals? Have they heard how a burglar sued a home owner when the former got hurt while trying to steal things from the house? Have they read how a rapist defended himself by saying it wasn't his fault and the girl deserved to be raped because she had dressed provocatively? Did they see how people protest in the streets because of low pay, how government buildings were burnt down because of government policies they deemed as unfair? So whoever says only Singaporeans complain? We are already so so so mild!

Anyway, since you put it that way, make sure next time you don't ever comment a food tastes lousy at a restaurant or hawker center. Can you cook better? Why don't you be a cook? Make sure you don't comment a movie is boring. Can you be a better director? Why don't you apply to be an actor? Maybe get someone to knock you on the head to remind you of your own words above. :bsmilie:



So what's your point here? Seems to contradict the previous unfriendly comment. So you said it yourself. If you think the MND minister here has been top-notch, that's YOUR opinion. I don't question it. Say why it is so if you wish to.



Another very simplistic and accusatory remark from you. Oh so you mean one must be a minister in order to comment on another minister? :dunno::bsmilie::kok:

I don't know who you are. You may be that little boy sitting on a high chair typing stuffs. You may be a middle-aged man who has it going because you've bought your nice cozy HDB flat at a reasonable price. Or you may be an old granny past retirement and bored, living in a private mansion. Seriously, I really don't care.

But I will say again, do your research to see what has happened to Singapore's public housing scene. You don't have to trace back all the way from the '60s. Just go from a very recent year 2000 to the present. Further back if you want. Read alongside how the government shapes its policies, related to housing, population management and others. Then empathize if there are valid reasons why people are unhappy. Even if you don't agree for whatever reason, so be it. Tell us why. Don't shoot others down simply because perhaps you haven't been in the same position before. The thing about humans is that when something doesn't befall them, they feel so detached.

Reminds me of the local specialist doctor who had everything going for him. He saw patients every day and to him, they were just that -- mere people whom he treated and when he went home, he had the luxury of wealth to enjoy. Until one day, cancer struck him. And very hard. And when he himself was a patient, he realized how much he had taken things for granted. How as a doctor, he had not fully viewed his patients as how they suffered their illness. And how, as a patient himself, he realized he was as human as anyone else.



What kind of question is this?? Trick question to trap me? Whoever openly comments himself or herself as smart? I won't and I don't think that way. Am I stupid? I don't think so also. Why does it matter anyway? If you must know, I think I am confident of myself. I think I can hold myself well. I think if the minister were to come one on one with me, I could take him on.

I don't know why it mattered but since you asked. So are you the smart or stupid one yourself?

Well, I didn't say this myself but it's from the PM and his gang: The government needs to be paid a lot because they want to prevent corruption, and they feel they are doing very important jobs in running this country. They need to get only the best. The scholars because supposedly, they scored A's in their school exams so they should know how to exercise good judgement. Well, look at the below:

1. Preventing corruption is good. But it has been reported even former scholars who were paid well, as civil servants or otherwise, have been charged with corruption.

2. Mas Selamat - The one who was limping and unarmed escaped from prison, under the watchful well-trained gurkhas. Why? Cos the window was broken and the TWO CCTV that day were not working.

3. The Youth Olympics held here went over-budget by a few hundred million dollars.
MCYS minister: We miscalculated on YOG budget | SingaporeScene - Yahoo! News Singapore

4. Lui Tuck Yew admitted the MRT train breakdowns was due to negligence.
Minister Lui Tuck Yew: Gov't accepts share of blame for December breakdowns - Yahoo! News Singapore

5. Teo Chee Hean said the Singapore government could have planned better.
Govt admits: We could have planned better - Yahoo! News Singapore

6. Instead of admitting there was an oversight and mistake in purchasing over-priced Brompton bikes, Khaw Boon Wan defended with weak arguments. He even made a statement later about how his butt had hurt trying to negotiate slopes in the park and hence, an expensive bike like the Brompton was essential for the park rangers. Noticed how he deftly avoided answering the question if it was justified to buy such expensive bikes when other cheaper ones sufficed. He turned focus instead on how his butt hurt and how hard a job it is for the rangers. Excellent taiji!

Minister Khaw defends NParks' bicycles purchase - Channel NewsAsia

7. The MND minister allowed private developers to build HDB flats by the fanciful name of "DBSS". People complained like crazy how expensive they were. Mah Bow Tan ignored. Khaw Boon Wan said very wrongly DBSS is not HDB. Why did Mah Bow Tan build so many of these expensive HDB flats when there was already such a long waiting list of people (commoners!) queuing to buy decently priced HDB flats? (Must I really be a minister myself to question such moves?) Why was it that only after Khaw Boon Wan took over as MND minister did he changed all the nonsense and began to build a lot more HDB flats? So what had the government been doing before that?

$880,000: Priciest flats launched in Tampines

DBSS is not HDB, says Khaw - Yahoo! News Singapore

I rest my case. You want more of such Big boo-boos by the government? Don't be lazy, Mr or Miss Kei one-three-o-nine. Go dig them out yourself.

It's a Friday! I love Fridays and I won't be bogged down arguing such stuffs. I've made my points. You want to prove yourself right or feel the urgent need to justify yourself to boost your ego, go ahead. List your grouses here. I'm done. And out!

Happy weekend everyone else!
you did exactly what i expected you to do.

thank you for falling for the trap :bsmilie:

and btw, yes i do know about all those things you've listed down. and you don't have to be a minister. you miss the point. i'm telling you to put yourself in the shoes of the people handling the issues and think from their perspectives. what you're doing is demanding from the citizen's POV and it's not taking the bigger picture into consideration

and also... you do know that humans err right? you may be hammering out all those issues, but your thinking is still naive.

and bro edutilos is right.
 

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Shizuma

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2012
2,557
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#19
let's set up a political party called Beach Party.
we will eat and dance and sing / purr under the moonlight.
 

keiser

New Member
Dec 13, 2011
115
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0
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#20
I am curious on how did you observed and came to the conclusion for the "linking problems to a single person" part? Also, if this is the case, are you implying the cause to what were being described is systemic in nature?

Hi kiwi2,

Just joining in to share some of my thoughts - I've read your post with great interest, and I suppose the demands on and expectations of the politicians are quite high for many reasons (high pay, etc). I think your posting is a reflection of that, and that is something which I have my own views on (more on that later). Just wanted to point out that points 2 and 6 don't seem to relate to "exercising good judgement".

That aside, I think it is clear that we all want our leaders to be the best. The future is always uncertain, and who knows what tomorrow will bring? Let's also remember that the stance has softened through the years - many of the links you've posted, to me, are signs of this, and we should try to give a little credit for that. Personally, I do think that there is an increasing (and unhealthy) trend of linking problems to a single person. Maybe it was unintentional, but at the start of your post, it was problems, then it became about individuals. Don't get me wrong - accountability is a good thing, but let's not forget that every single problem - be it MRT train breakdowns, planning for population growth, building of HDB flats - all these issues involve many people (or "commoners" as you say), not just a single person or organization. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Cheers, and happy weekend to you as well!
 

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