Glossy Art Paper or Matt?

Glossy Art Paper or Matt Art Paper


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#2
We have been working with professionals in publishing, photography, design and advertising on print productions.
The specs, budget, needs and expectations are very different with/from the various professions.

We are planning to launch a photobook production service for consumer soon.
I'm taking advantage of the traffic in CS to conduct a few polls.
This is to give us a first hand knowledge on the general expectations and would help us to tailor our capabilities to meet demands.
 

Yappy

Senior Member
May 30, 2004
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#3
If you are producing a Photo book (high quality offset printing) for your images, do you prefer Glossy Art Paper or Matt Art Paper?
Glossy paper produces sharper images...
 

#4
Glossy paper produces sharper images...
A couple of facts to share:
1) Glossy or matt art paper have the same level of clay coated charactaristic, the difference is in the "look and feel".
2) Technically, the "dot-gain" during offset printing is the same, although glossy art looks brighter with the reflections.
3) In sofar as providing print service to Professionals, none go for glossy.
 

CYRN

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2002
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photoevangel.com
#5
Don't glossy surface tends to stick?

If in book form and kept in storage as they often do after the initial interest, would it just fuse?
 

#6
Don't glossy surface tends to stick?

If in book form and kept in storage as they often do after the initial interest, would it just fuse?
Have you seen an old book in a library with pages sticking together?
Unlike photo prints that are chemically processed and treated, and have to keep it in cool and dry environment. Our humidity is very high.

The clay coating on Matt or Art Paper is preventive of sticking, even moisture and humidity. Unless you spray water on them.
 

CYRN

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2002
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photoevangel.com
#7
Have you seen an old book in a library with pages sticking together?
Unlike photo prints that are chemically processed and treated, and have to keep it in cool and dry environment. Our humidity is very high.

The clay coating on Matt or Art Paper is preventive of sticking, even moisture and humidity. Unless you spray water on them.
It really depends, library books are just library books. What's the oldest lending library book one can borrow anyway? They are otherwise kept in optimum storage condition in the library.... but no need to keep them forever, can always sell to public used library books. :D

The really serious ones would have approached them anyway.

What sort of glossy paper are you referring to then? Those like magazines? :think:
 

#8
It really depends, library books are just library books. What's the oldest lending library book one can borrow anyway? They are otherwise kept in optimum storage condition in the library.... but no need to keep them forever, can always sell to public used library books. :D

The really serious ones would have approached them anyway.

What sort of glossy paper are you referring to then? Those like magazines? :think:
Although there are various grades of Coated Art Paper from mills around the world, there are just 2 type of coatings, glossy or matt. It's commonly used to produce brochure, magazine, books, etc. Some like it glossy, some like it matt.

Our humidity is way too high, even in libraries. The books are brought out and returned numerous times, but you never get to see the pages sticking together.
 

Canonised

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2003
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#9
Glossy paper produces sharper images...
this is incorrect ..:nono:
Sharper images are not produced by paper ... more from the quality of the ink printers, which are dependent on the resolution-quality of the image file.
Matt paper gives you "truer" colour reproduction, and glossy paper reflect more lights and thus give you more vibrant colour, giving you the impression that the images are sharper.
In the natural world, you normally see black and not glossy black, unless the items were produced in glossy black.

The clay coating on Matt or Art Paper is preventive of sticking, even moisture and humidity. Unless you spray water on them.
quite true .... all paper stick when moisture get in between. Coated paper doesn't stick that much is because most of them were pretreated with clay powder to preventing them from sticking. That is the main reason why oil-based ink is the best for printing on coated paper. Waterbased inks, (for eg. inkjet, bubble jet) are not suitable to print on coated paper but only on specially treated "inkjet" paper for best results.
Cheap or wrong quality coated paper will damage your printer's head because of the poor quality of clay powder (maybe too coarse, unrefined)

Although there are various grades of Coated Art Paper from mills around the world, there are just 2 type of coatings, glossy or matt. It's commonly used to produce brochure, magazine, books, etc. Some like it glossy, some like it matt.
.
Not totally correct. Because some like it glossy, and some matt, they are some who do not mind having a inbetween grade and so most mills will produce a "glossy matt" paper, more commonly known in various names : Satin, Silkart, Semimatt, Semigloss, etc....

Surprising, the most popular paper type in the offset/laser/poster/tabletop, etc businesses is still the Glossy version!:dunno:

I am be wrong, so let me know if you have facts to back up your argument. :think:
 

#10
Sharper images are not produced by paper ... more from the quality of the ink printers, which are dependent on the resolution-quality of the image file.
Matt paper gives you "truer" colour reproduction, and glossy paper reflect more lights and thus give you more vibrant colour, giving you the impression that the images are sharper.
In the natural world, you normally see black and not glossy black, unless the items were produced in glossy black.:
Yappy was not totally wrong, visual perception is everything for some.
There are yes and no to your statement, yes to "quality of the ink printers and dependent on the resolution-quality"
NO, to say, “Sharper images are not produced by paper”. Paper is the key in sharper details; coated paper has lower dot gain versus uncoated paper. Imagine using uncoated paper thru your inkjet….oops. And the big differences in prices, even between photographic paper and coated paper.

quite true .... all paper stick when moisture get in between. Coated paper doesn't stick that much is because most of them were pretreated with clay powder to preventing them from sticking. That is the main reason why oil-based ink is the best for printing on coated paper. Waterbased inks, (for eg. inkjet, bubble jet) are not suitable to print on coated paper but only on specially treated "inkjet" paper for best results.
Cheap or wrong quality coated paper will damage your printer's head because of the poor quality of clay powder (maybe too coarse, unrefined):
OK, because you agreed with me :bsmilie:

Not totally correct. Because some like it glossy, and some matt, they are some who do not mind having a inbetween grade and so most mills will produce a "glossy matt" paper, more commonly known in various names : Satin, Silkart, Semimatt, Semigloss, etc....

Surprising, the most popular paper type in the offset/laser/poster/tabletop, etc businesses is still the Glossy version!:dunno:

I am be wrong, so let me know if you have facts to back up your argument. :think:
There are black and there is white, there is also grey. Some gurus would even argue that black, white and grey are not colors.

I totally agreed with your point. I missed out the in-between grades. These grades are much more expensive than the regular art or matt art paper, classified as premium paper.
I was kinda surprised at the 60/40 split on preference on this poll, and kinda tough on our workflow and backend to offer 2 choices.
In fact, I was planning to go with LumiSilk for our Photobooks offering. Great coating and acid free.

I'm impressed with your knowledge. :thumbsup:
 

Canonised

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2003
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#11
Paper is the key in sharper details; coated paper has lower dot gain versus uncoated paper. Imagine using uncoated paper thru your inkjet….oops. And the big differences in prices, even between photographic paper and coated paper.
The comparison given was between Coated Glossy and Coated Matt and my answer was based on that comparison.

Of course it's not fair to compare Coated and Uncoated paper as they serve difference purposes. Though paper is only a medium for the whole printing process, it is one of the most important, if not THE most. The final outlook can be devastating if the wrong choice of paper is used.

Reprinted (for members who do not understand "Dot gain" term):

"Dot gain is a phenomenon in printing and graphic arts whereby printed dots are perceived and actually printed bigger than intended. This causes a darkening of the screened images or textures, especially in the mid tones and shadows. This happens because of the viscosity of ink and its ability to spread through the paper as it is soaked in. Dot gain varies with paper type. Uncoated paper stock like newsprint paper shows the most dot gain."
 

#12
The comparison given was between Coated Glossy and Coated Matt and my answer was based on that comparison.

Of course it's not fair to compare Coated and Uncoated paper as they serve difference purposes. Though paper is only a medium for the whole printing process, it is one of the most important, if not THE most. The final outlook can be devastating if the wrong choice of paper is used.
Yah, testing you. :bsmilie:

We did some color tests on:
1) 157GSM Matt Art Paper
2) 150GSM Art Paper (Semi-gloss)
3) 170GSM LumiSilk (Satin matt):thumbsup:

LumiSilk as a premium grade printing paper is the best on highlight, midtone and shadow. :thumbsup:
 

Canonised

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2003
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#13
Yah, testing you. :bsmilie:

We did some color tests on:
1) 157GSM Matt Art Paper
2) 150GSM Art Paper (Semi-gloss)
3) 170GSM LumiSilk (Satin matt):thumbsup:

LumiSilk as a premium grade printing paper is the best on highlight, midtone and shadow. :thumbsup:
Depending on the type of paper you are using, the correct use of paper is necessary to bring out the quality print of the printer.

Based on the above, I believe the 157g matt artpaper, and possibly the 150g artpaper are not the right paper to use for your printshop. These are offset printing paper.

Printing Inks are usually classed into: 1) Conventional printing (eg Offset, and usually oil-based ink) and 2) Inkjet technology ink.

Inkjet printing inks are sub-classified into:
1) Aqueous (Water) based - mostly in the smaller home, office printers.
Again, subclassed into: Dyes (Canon, HP) and Pigments (Epson)
2) Solvent ink
3) UV-curable ink
4) Dye sublimation ink.

Different type of ink will require different type of paper which have gone thru their respective treatment.

Generally, waterbased ink are absorbed by the paper, and oilbased are laid onto the paper, either by oil (offset printers) or heat (Xerox copiers/toners) and this affect the choice of paper thru the strength/fiber of the paper, the absorption characteristic, etc.

I suspect your Lumisilk is actually a specialised inkjet paper, and as thus you are comparing apple with oranges.
 

#14
Depending on the type of paper you are using, the correct use of paper is necessary to bring out the quality print of the printer.

Based on the above, I believe the 157g matt artpaper, and possibly the 150g artpaper are not the right paper to use for your printshop. These are offset printing paper.

Printing Inks are usually classed into: 1) Conventional printing (eg Offset, and usually oil-based ink) and 2) Inkjet technology ink.
Canonised, you never fail to impress me. What do you do for a living?

There's an in-between using ink, it's HP Indigo with Electrostatic transfer technology using Electro-ink. Ondemand with offset quality. 90% of the world's photobook vendors use them. Prints on almost any paper, but must be acid free.

Different type of ink will require different type of paper which have gone thru their respective treatment.

Generally, waterbased ink are absorbed by the paper, and oilbased are laid onto the paper, either by oil (offset printers) or heat (Xerox copiers/toners) and this affect the choice of paper thru the strength/fiber of the paper, the absorption characteristic, etc.

I suspect your Lumisilk is actually a specialised inkjet paper, and as thus you are comparing apple with oranges.
Lumisilk is a premium grade paper, used in hi-end annual reports, brochures, can be offset printing or digital printing. It's true to say the machine cannot print the paper, not the other way around.
 

Canonised

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2003
2,998
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#15
There's an in-between using ink, it's HP Indigo with Electrostatic transfer technology using Electro-ink. Ondemand with offset quality. 90% of the world's photobook vendors use them. Prints on almost any paper, but must be acid free.
In offset printing, the ink is impressed onto the paper and depending on the type of paer, the ink is being absorbed. The appearance and feel is mostly flat, and usually need additional treatment to create a different feel, such as spot UV, varnishing, laminating matt or gloss or pearl, hotstamping, etc...

In the Xerox system, the toner ink is being "burned" and "melt" onto the paper surface, and being solid, you can feel the print and give a 2D effect of the printing when oil is varnished over the paper for thicker grade of paper, usually above 200g to 280g.

In the Indigo system, the technology is different .... the nano ink particles are being attracted or repelled by the voltage differential theory. Being tiny in nature, there isnt much left for the paper to absorb nor the mass is not huge enough for any physical feel, and as such it looks more like Xerox print but feel like offset.

Technically, the biggest advantage is that there is no need for offset plate and as such. every print can be different in content. Thus this is the most popular choice for customised photobook printing, but the capital investment is very much higher than any other printing format.

IMO, the ideal method to get the best quality is still high-quality offset printing on texture fine paper, but unfortunately there is an economical quantity quota ....:think:

I eat paper, dream paper, talk paper, drink paper, and sh1t paper for a living ...:dunno:
 

#16
In offset printing, the ink is impressed onto the paper and depending on the type of paer, the ink is being absorbed. The appearance and feel is mostly flat, and usually need additional treatment to create a different feel, such as spot UV, varnishing, laminating matt or gloss or pearl, hotstamping, etc...

In the Xerox system, the toner ink is being "burned" and "melt" onto the paper surface, and being solid, you can feel the print and give a 2D effect of the printing when oil is varnished over the paper for thicker grade of paper, usually above 200g to 280g.

In the Indigo system, the technology is different .... the nano ink particles are being attracted or repelled by the voltage differential theory. Being tiny in nature, there isnt much left for the paper to absorb nor the mass is not huge enough for any physical feel, and as such it looks more like Xerox print but feel like offset.

Technically, the biggest advantage is that there is no need for offset plate and as such. every print can be different in content. Thus this is the most popular choice for customised photobook printing, but the capital investment is very much higher than any other printing format.

IMO, the ideal method to get the best quality is still high-quality offset printing on texture fine paper, but unfortunately there is an economical quantity quota ....:think:

I eat paper, dream paper, talk paper, drink paper, and sh1t paper for a living ...:dunno:
Oouch....eat, drink and sh1t paper? You must have a cow's stomach.:thumbsup::bsmilie:
I swear that I'm impressed. I've not come across many in S'pore that have half of your knowledge. I've been sniffing glue and alcohol for 20 plus years in the print business. Anyway, it's too technical, boring and clients do not want/need to know, they just want it fast, good and cheap.

We have been cracking our brains to come out with exactly this..... fast, good and cheap for "just1book". With "an arm and a leg" investment, printing "just1book" for $20 to $50. Sure hope that the volume would justify the low price, I believed that a simple and easy to use application to design a photobook would be the key. It should be ready in a couple of weeks, still struggling. Pls visit the showroom, conveniently located at B1, Dhoby Ghaut MRT Xchange.
 

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