Ghosting of photos


Mar 1, 2012
1,585
6
0
Singapore
www.facebook.com
#1
Dear all,

I was going thru photos that I took at an event and came across this.



Can anyone advice why did such straight ghosting edge appear in this photo? What could have been the cause of it?

Shot with NEX5R with Sony Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8 lens at f/2 ISO100 1/400 shutter speed. Default lens hood and B+W F-PRO filter attached.

I tried to do some flaring tests at home but was unable to reproduce this effect/error.

The sun was really glaring that day.
 

SilverPine

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2007
4,539
6
38
Singapore
#2
From the photo you shooting almost to the direction of the sun with the flash? My Canon 40D can sync at 1/250 second and Canon 5D II can sync at 1/200 second. The DSLR shutter curtain's movement is vertical, manual camera is horizontal, It must be that you are shooting your NEX5R camera a manual mode with a speed 1/400 second which the flash and the shutter can not sync. I am not used NEX5R, not too sure what is the max shutter speed for the flash?
 

Mar 1, 2012
1,585
6
0
Singapore
www.facebook.com
#3
From the photo you shooting almost to the direction of the sun with the flash? My Canon 40D can sync at 1/250 second and Canon 5D II can sync at 1/200 second. The DSLR shutter curtain's movement is vertical, manual camera is horizontal, It must be that you are shooting your NEX5R camera a manual mode with a speed 1/400 second which the flash and the shutter can not sync. I am not used NEX5R, not too sure what is the max shutter speed for the flash?
No flash was used, and the nex5r's shutter curtains are horizontal, so that would rule out ur explanation...
 

SilverPine

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2007
4,539
6
38
Singapore
#4
No flash was used, and the nex5r's shutter curtains are horizontal, so that would rule out ur explanation...
No flash used? or you are using some kind of reflector? You are shooting toward the sun direction and model skin reflect the light out or her shin shine in the same direction of the sun, just look at her shoe and skin cover with flash light or strong light source. The photo was pp by Photoshop lightroom 4.3, another lightroom malfunction?
 

Mar 1, 2012
1,585
6
0
Singapore
www.facebook.com
#5
No flash used? or you are using some kind of reflector? You are shooting toward the sun direction and model skin reflect the light out or her shin shine in the same direction of the sun, just look at her shoe and skin cover with flash light or strong light source. The photo was pp by Photoshop lightroom 4.3, another lightroom malfunction?
Lightroom was just used to export the raw without editing. Shooting towards the sun, yes. It was a group shoot and I couldn't recall if there's anyone holding a reflector then or using any lights. Definitely no continous lights used. My question is more of why the edge of the flare/ghost so defined and straight instead of why I get a flare,
 

kandinsky

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 26, 2008
3,014
24
38
#6
Were you under any shelter/shade?
 

Octarine

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 3, 2008
12,517
30
48
Pasir Ris
#8
No flash was used, and the nex5r's shutter curtains are horizontal, so that would rule out ur explanation...
The curtain is horizontal, moving vertically? This would create a sharp horizontal edge where diffraction can occur. :think:
 

SilverPine

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2007
4,539
6
38
Singapore
#9
Lightroom was just used to export the raw without editing. Shooting towards the sun, yes. It was a group shoot and I couldn't recall if there's anyone holding a reflector then or using any lights. Definitely no continous lights used. My question is more of why the edge of the flare/ghost so defined and straight instead of why I get a flare,
The light source were more than one, one from the sun and another from ? just look at her left arm and the shadow on her arm just did not tally to the shadow of her body from the sun on the grass. :dunno:
 

fatbike

New Member
Aug 25, 2011
190
0
0
38
#11
My bad, default hood n bw filter, but was ur front element facing any direct sun?
 

SilverPine

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2007
4,539
6
38
Singapore
#12
OK if you said you are not using any flash, but you are shooting in a group, so that the flash must had came from other photographer.
 

Mar 1, 2012
1,585
6
0
Singapore
www.facebook.com
#13
Yeah maybe another reflector as the light source, definitely not another photographer's flash as I'm shooting at 1/400. But still, I'm puzzled why the shape of the flare is like that, as opposed to why am I getting a flare.
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
46
48
Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#14
Yeah maybe another reflector as the light source, definitely not another photographer's flash as I'm shooting at 1/400. But still, I'm puzzled why the shape of the flare is like that, as opposed to why am I getting a flare.
Could be the flash light from another photographer, you shoot at 1/400s does not mean it will not affect you. Just look at how it partially overexposed your photo.
 

Mar 1, 2012
1,585
6
0
Singapore
www.facebook.com
#15
Could be the flash light from another photographer, you shoot at 1/400s does not mean it will not affect you. Just look at how it partially overexposed your photo.
But the photo was shot in portrait orientation. If external flashlight was partially captured due to shutter speeds faster than sync speed, the banding should be horizontal in landscape orientation, or in this case, vertical in portrait orientation. No?
 

SilverPine

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2007
4,539
6
38
Singapore
#16
But the photo was shot in portrait orientation. If external flashlight was partially captured due to shutter speeds faster than sync speed, the banding should be horizontal in landscape orientation, or in this case, vertical in portrait orientation. No?

You are correct, but the other photographer was shooting vertical with the flash, so it should be vertical. In many events I had many photo (horizontal) with other photographers flash running flash from left to right direction in my photo.
 

Mar 1, 2012
1,585
6
0
Singapore
www.facebook.com
#17
You are correct, but the other photographer was shooting vertical with the flash, so it should be vertical. In many events I had many photo (horizontal) with other photographers flash running flash from left to right direction in my photo.
How would the orientation of someone else's flash (if any) affect the exposure of ur own photos if the interference of the flash is dependent on the relative orientation of your camera's shutter assembly? My camera doesn't have a rear electronic curtain.
 

SilverPine

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2007
4,539
6
38
Singapore
#18
How would the orientation of someone else's flash (if any) affect the exposure of ur own photos if the interference of the flash is dependent on the relative orientation of your camera's shutter assembly? My camera doesn't have a rear electronic curtain.
I am not expert, but I had many photo taken during the critical moments when most of the photographers press their shutter button with flash at almost the same time, you will see the flash travel from left to right for horizontal orientation photo. It was more to do how the flash fire, light up the place starting from left and move toward the right, depend on the timing you press the button result varies. I think if you want to find out more may be can online check in theory how the flash work. :)
 

Oct 12, 2004
453
5
18
#19
you will see the flash travel from left to right for horizontal orientation photo. It was more to do how the flash fire, light up the place starting from left and move toward the right
Ermm.. maybe you might mean something else but it would be impossible to 'see the flash travel from left to right' in a single photo. Even in a series of frame it takes highly specialised equipment to 'visualise' light travelling such as this:
http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2011/trillion-fps-camera-1213
So what you're seeing is something else and without seeing examples of pics I won't speculate what it is.

Now back to the ghosting effect. I agree with you silvermoon1407 that the orientation of someone else's flash should have no effect. Of course if you're lucky enough that at exactly the same time during your exposure, someone else fires their flash then you could capture their flash pulse.
Flash pulses are incredibly short, typically less than 1/1000th of a second. But suppose you were really lucky, that pulse which may have also created the flare may have occurred in the middle of when your shutter curtain was opening or closing.
Now this would only make sense if your shutter curtain moves horizontally as oppose to vertically in landscape orientation. But I have no idea what the Nex-5R shutter curtain is like.
As Octarine had asked, do you mean the shutter is horizontal, moving vertically (when in landscape orientation)?
I couldn't find confirmation of this online. But a simple way to test is to shoot with a strobe at above the max flash sync speed without any high speed sync enable and seeing what direction the black bands are.

This is just a stab in the dark btw. I'm not particular confident in my theory but I can't think of what else that would produce this sort of 'cut off' effect.

The only other thing that even remotely resembles this is mechanical vigneting, not caused by accessories like an inappropriate hood, but typically when using a very fast lens on a smaller format camera. The image that emerges from the exit pupil of the lens is larger than the chamber inside the camera and gets clipped. But I've only seen this happen in bokeh balls and not in flaring/ghosting.
 

Last edited:
Mar 1, 2012
1,585
6
0
Singapore
www.facebook.com
#20
Ermm.. maybe you might mean something else but it would be impossible to 'see the flash travel from left to right' in a single photo. Even in a series of frame it takes highly specialised equipment to 'visualise' light travelling such as this:
http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2011/trillion-fps-camera-1213
So what you're seeing is something else and without seeing examples of pics I won't speculate what it is.

Now back to the ghosting effect. I agree with you silvermoon1407 that the orientation of someone else's flash should have no effect. Of course if you're lucky enough that at exactly the same time during your exposure, someone else fires their flash then you could capture their flash pulse.
Flash pulses are incredibly short, typically less than 1/1000th of a second. But suppose you were really lucky, that pulse which may have also created the flare may have occurred in the middle of when your shutter curtain was opening or closing.
Now this would only make sense if your shutter curtain moves horizontally as oppose to vertically in landscape orientation. But I have no idea what the Nex-5R shutter curtain is like.
As Octarine had asked, do you mean the shutter is horizontal, moving vertically (when in landscape orientation)?
I couldn't find confirmation of this online. But a simple way to test is to shoot with a strobe at above the max flash sync speed without any high speed sync enable and seeing what direction the black bands are.

This is just a stab in the dark btw. I'm not particular confident in my theory but I can't think of what else that would produce this sort of 'cut off' effect.

The only other thing that even remotely resembles this is mechanical vigneting, not caused by accessories like an inappropriate hood, but typically when using a very fast lens on a smaller format camera. The image that emerges from the exit pupil of the lens is larger than the chamber inside the camera and gets clipped. But I've only seen this happen in bokeh balls and not in flaring/ghosting.
Nex cameras shutter blades are horizontal in landscape orientation and moves vertically. Flash beyond sync speed will result in horizontal banding in landscape orientation. Which is why I ruled that out as the photo's banding is horizontal in portrait orientation (or vertical in landscape orientation). Hence my question. But I agree with what u said on the 2nd part. As I was using a full frame lens on a crop body, the larger image circle that exits the lens rear element may result in some kind of internal reflections, furthermore it is mirrorless and hence the rear element-sensor distance is so short. Maybe. I don't know. Thanks for your point anyway :)
 

Top Bottom