Future of Olympus


one eye jack

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2011
1,070
68
48
The problem with declining camera sales is not due to sensor format.

It is due to replacement technology. ie. Mobile Phone.

Unless you are a serious hobbyist or professional, the latest Mobile Phone can probably take better pictures than a compact or Mirrorless DSLRs if all you need is a 12mp picture to capture moments or share on social media.

Phones better than compact or mirrorless camera? Not true leh..according to Robin Wong of the latest samsung note 20 ultra for example. Yes the main camera/lens is good ( 108mp sampled down to 12mp) but for the ultra wide lens or telephoto lens it sucked big time.Just gimmicks, sure if you need a fast pic it can suffice. The tele lens is a folded periscope design. I remember as school boy it was a fun thing to construct but nowhere near a submarine periscope. I guess it was one way to get around the space constraint so until real better lenses are designed this multi lens thing has a long way to go.

 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,668
60
48
sing
Photos from phones are inferior to photos from high spec cameras.
But the problem is that:
• Most phone users do not know that. Apple has funded an ad campaign to fuel the misconception that you do not need a camera if you have iPhone.
By putting up bill board size photos taken by iPhones.
• Or most phone users do not need the higher quality photos that a camera can give.
• Or maybe phone users cannot afford to spend the extra money on a high spec camera.

This results in a smaller pool of potential buyers for cameras.

Camera manufacturers know this problem.
That is why they make an APS-C model that shares the same lens mount as their full frame models.
It would be a cheaper entry point.
Canon R7 is rumored.
Nikon Z50
Leica CL
Sony 6500, 6600 series

Some brands stopped making compact cameras. Or reduce the number of compact models.
 

Last edited:

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,746
16
38
Selangor D.E.
For once, I agree with you.

BTW, you missed out the portability, convenience and the connectivity. Also you forgot that humans tends to be exhibitionist. Showing off their holidays as they go. A camera cannot really achieve that.

Photos from phones are inferior to photos from high spec cameras.
But the problem is that:
• Most phone users do not know that. Apple has funded an ad campaign to fuel the misconception that you do not need a camera if you have iPhone.
By putting up bill board size photos taken by iPhones.
• Or most phone users do not need the higher quality photos that a camera can give.
• Or maybe phone users cannot afford to spend the extra money on a high spec camera.

This results in a smaller pool of potential buyers for cameras.

Camera manufacturers know this problem.
That is why they make an APS-C model that shares the same lens mount as their full frame models.
It would be a cheaper entry point.
Canon R7 is rumored.
Nikon Z50
Leica CL
Sony 6500, 6600 series

Some brands stopped making compact cameras. Or reduce the number of compact models.
 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,668
60
48
sing
Boastfulness of how well one is doing. Particularly emphasizing on numerous oversea trips to exotic/expensive destinations.
Some seem to be always travelling on holiday and you wonder if they spend much time at home/home country.
They seem to have limitless amount of money.
Some even show off their First Class or Business Class airplane seat.
This is now prevalent in Facebook, which has become a showboat platform.
Particularly among rich photography hobbyists.

In this show-off activity, both mobile phones and cameras are used.
The mobile phone is used to upload the photos and short text descriptions to Facebook.
The mobile phone may be used to take a few record shots.
But most of the photos are usually taken with very good (expensive) cameras of various brands.
Some make it a point to state their expensive camera model and lens used to take each photo.
They do have followers and the Likes and compliments given by others act a a powerful positive reinforcement.
It makes them feel good.

This is the human condition.

Proponents of this swaggering will say that critics are jealous and cynical.
Proponents insist they are just sharing their experiences and trips with others.

Once Covid-19 is over, travel will resume and this social phenomenon will continue and may help to sell cameras.
Being a powerful indirect advertisement.
 

Last edited:

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,746
16
38
Selangor D.E.
Very correct. Ricohflex. Unless the connectivity of Camera is achieved seamlessly, the cameras still falls behind the phones. Not sure about other brands but Oly needs to connect to the phone's Wifi to transfer photos and while it's doing that, the phone cannot connect to a public WiFi. Unlike a phone, it's shoot then upload. For Oly, it's Camera connect to phone, then upload to phone then disconnect phone from Camera then upload photo. That's eternity in those web bloggers. ie SLOW.

So for the future, unless a camera brand can allow that seamless uploading in super speed, it will remain the achilles heel. Maybe have an android in the camera??
 

Pitachu

Active Member
Sep 18, 2019
334
25
28
54
Let say the constraints of a mobile phone for photography is all a normal person need (eg. my wife or parents).
On a iPhone 12 ProMax with 3 fixed lens, 13mm, 26mm and 65mm up to 12 megapixel.
I used to put a pancake 14-42 (28.84mm equivalent) on my EM5 Mk3 and used it as a compact camera for casual recording of events.

Comparing the 2 setup which cost around the same price (about $1800),

The iPhone 12 pro max
1) has a ultra wide @13mm (great for group photos and landscape etc)
2) post process the photos instantly and the shot is not good, I can take again

On the Olympus,
1) there are more adjustments available (aperture etc)
2) there is some post processing but it is far from what the iPhone can do

I have tried using both on casual family or friends gathering trip just to record the event and share.
Generally, using a mobile phone produces more good shots than using a camera.
It also saves me time having to process some photos to make it a bit nicer and after that
transfer it back to my phone for sharing.

Having said that, I would still continue to use my Olympus for Photo trips, setting it up differently
with larger lenses.
 

Last edited:

one eye jack

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2011
1,070
68
48
Generally, using a mobile phone produces more good shots than using a camera.
It also saves me time having to process some photos to make it a bit nicer and after that
transfer it back to my phone for sharing.

More good shots on phone is because it is a wide angle lens with more depth of field and therefore more things are in focus which generally photography newbies have difficulty with even relying on autofocus but as you know it is not foolproof until AI is up to a certain level if it is included in camera. Now people cannot even do manual focus even with focus peaking and magnified view. So in photography half the battle is won if photo is in focus. But great photos are in most cases blurry and grainy for that matter so attention on gear alone is over hyped. Phones can use photo editing apps because the display screen is larger which makes more sense to have it than in camera. That said you also get only one look in phone camera, the wide angle look.


As to connectivity wifi will drain the battery in the camera that's why new cameras have bluetooth as well thus conserving battery power so not much an obstacle transferring images to phone.

The truth in photography is in getting the picture right in camera in the 1st. place. That's what I learned during film days.
The video below although pertains to video but is no less true for digital photography. You need the basics photography 101. Enjoy..

 

Last edited:

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,746
16
38
Selangor D.E.
That's correct. It still follows as mentioned somewhere, What's the display medium? If I am just going to tweeter, FB and Whatsapp or something similar, there is no necessity for super high and also super crispy AF. What's required is the speed of the transfer to Showoff the take. So unless you want to say publish in a crispy mag like Vogue or Playboy, a handphone image won't do. (or maybe in the future it would)

An interesting company that joined the microfourthird may (please not the use of MAY) be heading that direction Alice Camera
Sony tried it with a fix lens and Oly did also with a mft Both were not really successful.
 

Blu-By-U

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,746
16
38
Selangor D.E.
That's a reason for those compact f4 lenses. Small and deep depth of field.

More good shots on phone is because it is a wide angle lens with more depth of field and therefore more things are in focus which generally photography newbies have difficulty with even relying on autofocus but as you know it is not foolproof until AI is up to a certain level if it is included in camera. Now people cannot even do manual focus even with focus peaking and magnified view. So in photography half the battle is won if photo is in focus. But great photos are in most cases blurry and grainy for that matter so attention on gear alone is over hyped. Phones can use photo editing apps because the display screen is larger which makes more sense to have it than in camera.
 

Pitachu

Active Member
Sep 18, 2019
334
25
28
54
It is true that shots taken with Wide Angle lenses generally have more depth of field and more things in focus.

But what I was referring to are stuff like backlight compensation, or when you want to increase saturation slightly to make skies more blue and grass more green etc just to make the photos more appealing. It can be done either on the Olympus (lots of fiddling with all the menus). All this are done automatically when the photo is taken on the newer mobile phones.

Dont get me wrong.... I still believe that images from a SLR is still better. Just that Mobile phones with AI on photos does a pretty good job at a fraction of the time, especially when you do not really need resolution beyond 12mp.

More good shots on phone is because it is a wide angle lens with more depth of field and therefore more things are in focus which generally photography newbies have difficulty with even relying on autofocus but as you know it is not foolproof until AI is up to a certain level if it is included in camera.

 

one eye jack

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2011
1,070
68
48
It is true that shots taken with Wide Angle lenses generally have more depth of field and more things in focus.

But what I was referring to are stuff like backlight compensation, or when you want to increase saturation slightly to make skies more blue and grass more green etc just to make the photos more appealing. It can be done either on the Olympus (lots of fiddling with all the menus). All this are done automatically when the photo is taken on the newer mobile phones.

Dont get me wrong.... I still believe that images from a SLR is still better. Just that Mobile phones with AI on photos does a pretty good job at a fraction of the time, especially when you do not really need resolution beyond 12mp.
Ultimately we as photographers inadvertently add to the noise that photos from phones are good enough because looking at a small screen it does look good but in the long run we help in advancing the demise of camera industry. Yes for the sake of convenience no less but also in the long term the amount of photos available gets reduced simply because of quality for historical achival purposes which is regretable from the masses as they truely capture life of those times not just the professional photographic records. I remember Hongkong actor Chow Yuen Fatt advising the film industry to preserve and archive their movies as improper storage is making the movies into moldy celuloid mess by doing 3 colour black and white separation for permanent record or risk losing these creative work forever.
 

Pitachu

Active Member
Sep 18, 2019
334
25
28
54
I fully agree. That is why I almost always bring along my Olympus camera whenever I go on an activity
(eg. Family trips etc) where there is probably opportunities for archive worthy shots.

But having said that, if you look at all the photos on social media, a large percentage are probably taken
when the person is unlikely to carry any camera, even a compact one with them. Hence, we will just reach
out for the phone in our pocket to take the shot. This is still better than having no cameras at all.


Ultimately we as photographers inadvertently add to the noise that photos from phones are good enough because looking at a small screen it does look good but in the long run we help in advancing the demise of camera industry. Yes for the sake of convenience no less but also in the long term the amount of photos available gets reduced simply because of quality for historical achival purposes which is regretable from the masses as they truely capture life of those times not just the professional photographic records. I remember Hongkong actor Chow Yuen Fatt advising the film industry to preserve and archive their movies as improper storage is making the movies into moldy celuloid mess by doing 3 colour black and white separation for permanent record or risk losing these creative work forever.
 

Pitachu

Active Member
Sep 18, 2019
334
25
28
54
This is good news for Olympus & M43.
Looks like M43 will stay at least a few more good years :)

 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,668
60
48
sing
The title of the 43rumors.com article is WRONG. [ OM Digital says they are number 1 in Japan ]. OM Digital never said that.

OM Digital Solutions has announced that micro four thirds has achieved number one in market share in the number of units sold by lens mount in Japan.

Sounds like Trump saying his inauguration crowd was the biggest.
But in the modern world this effect is called Echo Chamber where people visit threads in which a particular view is reinforced.

More than 30 years ago I bought a book named
"How to Lie with Statistics"
It was first published in 1954.

The claim is "In Japan". And not worldwide.
The claim did not elaborate on what they meant by "sold"

The claim did say it includes B to B.

Meaning when Olympus "sold" its millions of unsold stocks of lenses to OM Digital Solutions - that counts as "lens mount sold in Japan".
From one business to another business.
Or when OM Digital Solutions delivers stock of MFT lenses to a retailer shop - that counts as "lens mount sold in Japan".

Very little of which has yet to be sold to a consumer/photographer/customer.

Also, they mention support by 56 companies.
Is that the statistical SAMPLE Size?
No explanation.

56 shops cannot represent the whole of Japan.
Especially when one cherry picks which shop to ask for data to support a pre-determined "answer".

This is a bad sign.
If a company is desperate enough to pull this statistic stunt, they do not have good news.
 

Last edited:

Pitachu

Active Member
Sep 18, 2019
334
25
28
54
Wow! Can't believe you pick on every point and choose to see from the negative view point.

1. They clearly say that it they are number 1 in Japan and repeated that again when they mention domestic market. You are the one that put in the negative aspect that it is not worldwide and after that quoted a book on How to Lie with Statistics. I think you are the one trying to Lie.

2. To say that the sales is unsold stock from Olympus to OM Digital Solutions is another falsehood you are trying to promote.
Of course, anyone with a good sense of English will know that the word "sales" by OM Digital Solutions does not include "purchase"
from Olympus.

3. The sales is not to B2B Companies. Read the sentence again/ Either your level of understanding of English is real bad or you choose to distort the actual meaning.

You are the one Donald Trump spreading falsehoods, not OM Digital Solutions.

The title of the 43rumors.com article is WRONG. [ OM Digital says they are number 1 in Japan ]. OM Digital never said that.

OM Digital Solutions has announced that micro four thirds has achieved number one in market share in the number of units sold by lens mount in Japan.

Sounds like Trump saying his inauguration crowd was the biggest.
But in the modern world this effect is called Echo Chamber where people visit threads in which a particular view is reinforced.

More than 30 years ago I bought a book named
"How to Lie with Statistics"
It was first published in 1954.

The claim is "In Japan". And not worldwide.
The claim did not elaborate on what they meant by "sold"

The claim did say it includes B to B.

Meaning when Olympus "sold" its millions of unsold stocks of lenses to OM Digital Solutions - that counts as "lens mount sold in Japan".
From one business to another business.
Or when OM Digital Solutions delivers stock of MFT lenses to a retailer shop - that counts as "lens mount sold in Japan".

Very little of which has yet to be sold to a consumer/photographer/customer.

Also, they mention support by 56 companies.
Is that the statistical SAMPLE Size?
No explanation.

56 shops cannot represent the whole of Japan.
Especially when one cherry picks which shop to ask for data to support a pre-determined "answer".

This is a bad sign.
If a company is desperate enough to pull this statistic stunt, they do not have good news.
 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,668
60
48
sing
In 2020 they made the same silly claim about 2019 market share
Quote
[ Micro Four Thirds has further expanded the possibilities of enjoying and utilizing images through the development of the lineup unique to the joint standard, and currently there are 54 supporting companies including BtoB companies. In 2019, four new mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras that comply with the Micro Four Thirds system standard were introduced, and we have endeavored to revitalize the domestic market. As a result, in 2019, we achieved the top share of the number of lenses * 1 by lens mount in the domestic market , 19.8%.
* 1 Survey by Four Thirds Secretariat based on sales performance data of leading camera dealers nationwide ]

UnQuote

Four Thirds Secretariat is probably a team of in-house staff employed by Olympus to produce this survey.
As the saying goes, he who pays the piper calls the tune. Tell the boss what he wants to hear or else ...

In spite of this silly claim, 2020 was the year Olympus Camera Division was divested to JIP.

-----------------

Then in 2021 they used the same word processor file template and made some changes to push the same claim about 2020 market share.
Quote
[ Micro Four Thirds has further expanded the possibilities of enjoying and utilizing images by enhancing the lineup unique to the joint standard and developing the system, and currently, there are 56 supporting companies including BtoB companies. In 2020, four new mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras that comply with the Micro Four Thirds system standard were introduced, and we have endeavored to revitalize the domestic market. As a result, in 2020, we achieved the top share of the number of lenses by lens mount in the domestic market, 21.7%.
* According to in-house research, based on BCN ranking data.
Unit share of interchangeable lens digital cameras by lens mount type from January to December 2020. ]
UnQuote

Credit: four-thirds.org


This persistent exercise in self delusion is one of the factors in the demise of big corporations.
 

Pitachu

Active Member
Sep 18, 2019
334
25
28
54
It is obvious that Olympus and Panasonic are 2 of the companies that pay the expenses of Four Thirds Secretariat,
otherwise how is the Four Thirds Secretariat formed? But I don't think even though their salaries are paid by Olympus and the rest of the M43 manufacturers, they can lie all the way. I am sure other manufacturers have already scrutinized the findings and would try to dispute that if is too far from the truth.

Anyway, having a domestic market share of 19.8% does not imply that the company cannot be sold for whatever reasons, especially when it is not profitable for a number of years. When Uber has about 50% market share in Singapore, it is still being sold to Grab.

From a M43 user perspective, the point that is important here is as long as there is a good few years for me to use any micro four thirds lens or body, I will probably still buy it, simply because the format and form factor is ideal for my needs. After all, I also set aside about $3000 to $4000 to replace my workstation every 3 years and more than $10K a year on the depreciation of my car.

Don't ignore the importance of form factor. That is how Mobile Phone Cameras has taken the huge chunk of market share. Lots of people are prepared to give up some image quality in exchange for something smaller and lighter.

If high resolution is the most impt factor, everyone who wants to take photos will be carrying around the Sony A7R4 or the Fuji Medium Format with them every where they go. But that did not happen. After a while, a huge percentage of people got tired of being bombarded with ads that feature higher and higher resolution every year. Yes, so photographers have a need for it and go for it. But look at the general public. Look at iphone uers, who are even contented with 12mp and did not change over to Samsung 102mp.

Same for M43 users like me. If 20mp is the limit in order that I can have smaller lenses, so be it. Don't keep bombarding to methat the 61mp Sony A7R4 is better. Of course it is better. And I did go to the Sony Showroom twice to try out the lenses I am likely to use when I got for my son the A7R3. But I decided that the Sony FE lenses are really too huge for me and decided to hold on to my Olympus. :)

In 2020 they made the same silly claim about 2019 market share
Quote
[ Micro Four Thirds has further expanded the possibilities of enjoying and utilizing images through the development of the lineup unique to the joint standard, and currently there are 54 supporting companies including BtoB companies. In 2019, four new mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras that comply with the Micro Four Thirds system standard were introduced, and we have endeavored to revitalize the domestic market. As a result, in 2019, we achieved the top share of the number of lenses * 1 by lens mount in the domestic market , 19.8%.
* 1 Survey by Four Thirds Secretariat based on sales performance data of leading camera dealers nationwide ]

UnQuote

Four Thirds Secretariat is probably a team of in-house staff employed by Olympus to produce this survey.
As the saying goes, he who pays the piper calls the tune. Tell the boss what he wants to hear or else ...

In spite of this silly claim, 2020 was the year Olympus Camera Division was divested to JIP.

-----------------

Then in 2021 they used the same word processor file template and made some changes to push the same claim about 2020 market share.
Quote
[ Micro Four Thirds has further expanded the possibilities of enjoying and utilizing images by enhancing the lineup unique to the joint standard and developing the system, and currently, there are 56 supporting companies including BtoB companies. In 2020, four new mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras that comply with the Micro Four Thirds system standard were introduced, and we have endeavored to revitalize the domestic market. As a result, in 2020, we achieved the top share of the number of lenses by lens mount in the domestic market, 21.7%.
* According to in-house research, based on BCN ranking data.
Unit share of interchangeable lens digital cameras by lens mount type from January to December 2020. ]
UnQuote

Credit: four-thirds.org


This persistent exercise in self delusion is one of the factors in the demise of big corporations.
 

Last edited:

JW73

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2003
1,364
12
38
47
Singapore
www.pbase.com

First OM-Digital magazine. Enjoy.
 

  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: swifty and Blu-By-U

Pitachu

Active Member
Sep 18, 2019
334
25
28
54
Thanks for the magazine, a showcase of photos by photographers using Olympus Gear.

To me, reaching this level of photography within the boundaries of using 20mp M43 gear
is already an achievement for me :)


First OM-Digital magazine. Enjoy.
 

JW73

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2003
1,364
12
38
47
Singapore
www.pbase.com
Yah. Pictures speak louder than the specs sheets.
 

Last edited: