From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

IF guilty, is Dr Silviu Ionescu immune from Singapore's criminal laws


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pokiemon

Senior Member
Mar 5, 2005
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#1
Background
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_471866.html

Unanswered questions:
1. Why wasn’t the passport of Dr Silviu impounded when he is the prime suspect?
2. Was a waival of diplomatic immunity put in officially to the Romanian government?
3. Why did they they so long to investigate the case?
4. What are their findings?
5. What are they going to do next to bring the culprit to justice?
 

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hmjt

Member
Sep 26, 2003
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#3
This sucks big time
 

nerdie

New Member
Feb 14, 2002
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#5
read the papers? the taxi driver gave evidence, it's confirm him
 

#6
Remember Michael Peter Fay? He was only given four strokes of the cane while his fellow accomplice from Hong Kong, Andy Shiu Chi Ho, was caned 12 strokes and sentenced to eight months in prison.

Such a disparity when Michael Fay is not even a diplomat, I wouldn't expect the Singapore government to even dare lay its hands on a high ranking Romanian official with diplomatic immunity.
 

nerdie

New Member
Feb 14, 2002
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#7
i think a few years ago another S XXXX CD car killed a lady also...
moral of the story: avoid all S XXXX CD cars, worse than lang-ga taxi..
 

night86mare

Deregistered
Aug 25, 2006
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#8
i am never a fan of speculation.

that said, maybe it would be good to read up on the origins of diplomatic immunity and try to understand that it isn't a concession given to diplomats for them to abuse, even though it does happen.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/6137/Diplomatic-Immunity.html#ixzz0bOCzQ3XE

you might also want to read up on the above link. i think the issue, if one is talking about diplomatic immunity in general, is that the part of the vienna convention that gave rise to diplomatic immunity as we see it today.. did assume that diplomats would be of upright character and responsible people.

800k worth of parking offenses in the us incurred by foreign diplomats had to be forgiven, 5.3 million worth of debts..
 

#9
i am never a fan of speculation.

that said, maybe it would be good to read up on the origins of diplomatic immunity and try to understand that it isn't a concession given to diplomats for them to abuse, even though it does happen.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/6137/Diplomatic-Immunity.html#ixzz0bOCzQ3XE

you might also want to read up on the above link. i think the issue, if one is talking about diplomatic immunity in general, is that the part of the vienna convention that gave rise to diplomatic immunity as we see it today.. did assume that diplomats would be of upright character and responsible people.

800k worth of parking offenses in the us incurred by foreign diplomats had to be forgiven, 5.3 million worth of debts..
Oh, now that Doraemon is gone, you plan to take over his role? :bsmilie:
 

night86mare

Deregistered
Aug 25, 2006
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#10
Oh, now that Doraemon is gone, you plan to take over his role? :bsmilie:
no la... wa lau..

i never quote any funny singapore law statutes that i anyhow dig up online......... :bsmilie:

plus i never offer to give free law advice leh... i not so pro.. never take law module in uni to act and pretend..

that link, i read a while ago after watching csi miami - if you follow the series there is abuse of diplomatic immunity there. it just happens to have a law in the url, nothing much about law, if you ask me.. :)
 

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#11
no la... wa lau..

i never quote any funny singapore law statutes that i anyhow dig up online......... :bsmilie:

plus i never offer to give free law advice leh... i not so pro.. never take law module in uni to act and pretend..

that link, i read a while ago after watching csi miami - if you follow the series there is abuse of diplomatic immunity there. it just happens to have a law in the url, nothing much about law, if you ask me.. :)
OT posting.

Be careful of what you just said, he does have a rather large fan base in this forum. :nono:
I wonder what his new nick will be? :think:
 

azul123

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2004
2,776
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Eastern Bloc
#13
Damn it!!...

I just found out from another forum that one of the victims, 30 year old Tong Kok Wai, who suffered severe brain damage, has since died?

../azul123
 

pokiemon

Senior Member
Mar 5, 2005
2,039
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#14
something to ponder on:
Singapore is a signatory of the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations:

Article 29 of the Vienna Convention states:

“The person of a diplomatic agent shall be inviolable. He shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. The receiving State shall treat him with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on his person, freedom or dignity.”

Article 30 of the Vienna Convention states:

A diplomatic agent shall enjoy immunity from the criminal jurisdiction of the receiving State. He shall also enjoy immunity from its civil and administrative jurisdiction, except in the case of:

(a) A real action relating to private immovable property situated in the territory of the receiving State, unless he holds it on behalf of the sending State for the purposes of the mission;

(b) An action relating to succession in which the diplomatic agent is involved as executor, administrator, heir or legatee as a private person and not on behalf of the sending State;

(c) An action relating to any professional or commercial activity exercised by the diplomatic agent in the receiving State outside his official functions.

Article 32 of the Vienna Convention states:

1.The immunity from jurisdiction of diplomatic agents and of persons enjoying immunity under article 37 may be waived by the sending State.

2. Waiver must always be express.
 

reachme2003

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2003
3,735
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#15
this hit and run case is tricky in its handling. it involves a CD car and maybe person/persons with diplomatic immunity. if you read st report recently, where they highlighted past cases worldwide involving such person/s or property, not all cases were prosecuted.
 

Xtol19

New Member
Dec 13, 2008
520
1
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#16
Your questions are rhetorical:

1. Why wasn’t the passport of Dr Silviu impounded when he is the prime suspect?

=> First, he wasn't a prime suspect; 2nd, the govt cannot impound a diplomatic passport.

2. Was a waival of diplomatic immunity put in officially to the Romanian government?

=> They could ask, but they don't need to update you, and they would not publicise it. Diplomacy is often conducted behind close doors. If they were to use the media to press the request, it could complicate diplomatic relations.

3. Why did they they so long to investigate the case?

=> Is one week long? Do you expect instant justice a la CSI?

4. What are their findings?

=> That's confidential. It'll be publicised if it goes to Court.

5. What are they going to do next to bring the culprit to justice?

=> Why do they need to tell the world? The Police conduct hundreds of investigations every year, they don't update the public for every case.

Your poll is also illogical.

With diplomatic immunity, he can't even be arrested, much less charged, so how can he be guilty?

On the other hand, if immunity is waived, and he is subsequently found guilty by a court, then how can he be immune to punishment?


Background
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_471866.html

Unanswered questions:
1. Why wasn’t the passport of Dr Silviu impounded when he is the prime suspect?
2. Was a waival of diplomatic immunity put in officially to the Romanian government?
3. Why did they they so long to investigate the case?
4. What are their findings?
5. What are they going to do next to bring the culprit to justice?
 

Last edited:

Benign

Senior Member
Jan 30, 2004
494
0
0
Melbourne
gallery127599.fotopic.net
#18
Diplomatic immunity is infectious ...... Singaporeans ! You are not alone :bsmilie:

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/articles/21pal/Article/

Diplomat probed over molest

2009/11/19

KUALA LUMPUR: A diplomat is being investigated for allegedly using force to outrage the modesty of a saleswoman in the embassy premises in Jalan U-Thant here.
The alleged incident took place on Tuesday afternoon when the saleswoman went to meet the diplomat.

It was learnt that after the meeting, the envoy allegedly grabbed the woman and kissed her several times before she broke free and fled.

The woman lodged a police report stating that he tried contacting her several times after the incident but she refused to answer.

It was also learnt that police have made a request to Wisma Putra to record a statement from the diplomat as he has diplomatic immunity. Police have also requested the tapes from the closed-circuit television cameras at the embassy.

BUT,

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/33759-british-diplomat-assaulted-over-car-park-dispute

British diplomat assaulted over car park dispute
By Adib Zalkapli

KUALA LUMPUR, July 30 — A British diplomat here was recently assaulted by a “Datuk” and seven men, believed to be his bodyguards, at a luxury residence here early this month in a parking dispute.

Police have arrested one suspect so far and are likely to recommend charges against the man.

According to a report lodged at the Dang Wangi police station, a copy of which was made available to The Malaysian Insider, the diplomat, in his 50s, was asked to go to the management office of his condominium to discuss the unauthorised use of his parking bays.

He was then confronted by a group of eight men outside the management office, which was already closed at that time.

The diplomat was warned by one of the men for raising the car parking problem.

“He said that I had spoken to his bodyguard about the car parking problem in a disrespectful way and that I had to understand they do things differently in Southeast Asia,” said the report.

“He said he owned the building and could do anything he wanted,” the diplomat said in the report.

The diplomat was then beaten by the men, before he could manage to move to the condominium guard post, situated some 10 metres away.

He claimed that the three security guards stationed at the condominium entrance did not do anything to help him.

He reported the incident to the British High Commission officials who took him to a hospital nearby for treatment.

Kuala Lumpur Criminal Investigation Department chief Datuk Ku Chin Wah confirmed the report and said one suspect has been arrested.

“He has been released on bail pending completion of investigation papers,” Ku told The Malaysian Insider.

He added that the police are still waiting for the medical report on the severity of the injury inflicted to the diplomat before charging the suspect.

Meanwhile, a Wisma Putra official, when contacted today, claimed no knowledge of the incident.


Maybe, Dr Silviu Ionescu should be posted to Malaysia :think: :devil:
 

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pokiemon

Senior Member
Mar 5, 2005
2,039
0
0
#19
Your questions are rhetorical:

1. Why wasn’t the passport of Dr Silviu impounded when he is the prime suspect?

=> First, he wasn't a prime suspect; 2nd, the govt cannot impound a diplomatic passport.

2. Was a waival of diplomatic immunity put in officially to the Romanian government?

=> They could ask, but they don't need to update you, and they would not publicise it. Diplomacy is often conducted behind close doors. If they were to use the media to press the request, it could complicate diplomatic relations.

3. Why did they they so long to investigate the case?

=> Is one week long? Do you expect instant justice a la CSI?

4. What are their findings?

=> That's confidential. It'll be publicised if it goes to Court.

5. What are they going to do next to bring the culprit to justice?

=> Why do they need to tell the world? The Police conduct hundreds of investigations every year, they don't update the public for every case.

Your poll is also illogical.

With diplomatic immunity, he can't even be arrested, much less charged, so how can he be guilty?

On the other hand, if immunity is waived, and he is subsequently found guilty by a court, then how can he be immune to punishment?
My poll is only as logical as the person is thinking.

I said "if guilty", not "found guilty by a court". obviously i was seeking what others thought.

Why did they take so long to investigate? Dr Silviu Ionescu remained one week in Singapore before taking off. With eye-witnesses identifying the suspect, the police could have gathered more conclusive evidence easily within a week. A waival could have been applied to the romanian government and prevented him from leaving the country. there is no extradition treaty between singapore and romania if he returned to romania.

do you think malaysian tourism minister ng yen yen thought about diplomatic relations when she accused other countries of hijacking their local dishes? we are talking about 3 innocent lives here and xtol19 worries about diplomatic relations with romania?
 

cks2k2

New Member
Feb 12, 2009
939
2
0
#20
My poll is only as logical as the person is thinking.

I said "if guilty", not "found guilty by a court". obviously i was seeking what others thought.

Why did they take so long to investigate? Dr Silviu Ionescu remained one week in Singapore before taking off. With eye-witnesses identifying the suspect, the police could have gathered more conclusive evidence easily within a week. A waival could have been applied to the romanian government and prevented him from leaving the country. there is no extradition treaty between singapore and romania if he returned to romania.

do you think malaysian tourism minister ng yen yen thought about diplomatic relations when she accused other countries of hijacking their local dishes? we are talking about 3 innocent lives here and xtol19 worries about diplomatic relations with romania?
The police could have applied for a waiver, but do you seriously think the Romanians would so easily hand over their diplomat. They'd drag the whole thing for as long as they can until their man can run back home.

You're comparing apples-to-oranges when making comparisons between Ng Yen Yen's snafu with this one. She said something rather silly, and people just laugh it off (on both sides of the causeway). No one got hurt (maybe bruised her ego). This case is asking for a diplomat to be handed over for criminal investigation and is no small matter.
 

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