Flash/Camera setting for evening dinner functions, with LightDome

[chopper]

I need to prepare myself to photograph for my Mom's birthday dinner, and it will be in restaurant, night. My setup is Canon 30D, with Canon external flash 430. In the past, I normally uses bounched from ceiling, and set Shutter speed/Apperture to 60/f5.6. I recently got a flash diffuser (3rd party equivalent of Gary Fong Light Dome), I thought that would eliminate variability in the ceiling height/color.

Since this event is quite important for me personally, I would like some Pro expert advice on what camera setting should I set for optimum result. Hope to create a 'natural look' in the final result, and most of the shoot will be group photos, table photos, with occasional candid/protrait. What would be the optimum setting you would suggest, here is what I will try:

My setting with Light Dome pointing upwards:
ISO: 400
Apperture: 5.6
Shutter Speed: 60
Flash setting: Full output, ETTL
Lesn: Most likely 17-55 f2.8 IS

Any suggestion/input would be helpful.

 

[chopper]

Any master or Pro that can help to advice ?

 

[catchlights]

important to you?
than only do things you are most familiar with, leave the testing on other less important events.

anyway, no one setting able to fix all situation, the results are very much depends on the ceiling height, ambient lights, distance of your subjects etc, usually I adjust the flash compensation, aperture, shutter speed from shots to shots, to get the best exposure and effects I'm looking for.

 

[nixontkl]

no pro, but suggest you tilt your flash with the LS up and bounce the flash off the ceiling, the LS will throw some of the flash forward to light up your subject. if the ceiling is high, tilt abt 45deg or 70deg as the flash will not be able to bounce enough light down from the ceiling.

no hard and fast rule as to what iso that you have to stick to, but for indoor shots, i find that using auto iso is very useful as u never know when u shooting near or far and you need to adjust your shutter spd or aperture and risk losing the shot or everyone waiting for u to set to the right setting. just remember to limit your max iso at a comfortable lvl to prevent your shots coming out too grainy or noisy.

indoor shots spd of 1/50-1/100 should be good, faster for capturing those kids running around, slower for group shot where everyone stay still for awhile.

aperture of F5.6 should do well to give u sharp shots

and WB is very important, when u use flash all your picture will become whiter, so do adjust your WB there with some test shot b4 u fire away. use custom WB or manual adjust. use lower than 5000K if u using manual setting to make your picture warmer. else just set your WB to flash mode

 

[megaweb]

My setting with Light Dome pointing upwards:
ISO: 400
Apperture: 5.6
Shutter Speed: 60
Flash setting: Full output, ETTL
Lesn: Most likely 17-55 f2.8 IS

Any suggestion/input would be helpful.

30D ? Can push ISO to 800. Stick to your current settings and use histogram to check your exposure.

 

[fabianaino]

my take :

am surprise Canon's have a IS for the 17-55 F2.8!!! Nikon Doesn't ... =(

Anyway, your IS will help in stability. So I suggest for the dim light situation, ISO 400 is a good figure to work with. I will leave it at F2.8. If you are taking group shots at 17mm, DOF is not an issue as the further your sibject is away from the lens, the more DOF you have. Reason I suggest 2.8 is also that u will have brighter images, or else, even at ISO400 u may experience grainess when u try to lighten the picture in PS.

That's it for Aperture and ISO.

Shutter speed, I shall down it down to 1/20 or even 1/15 of a sec. If you are nervous you can go higher like 1/30 ~ 40 sec. Your flash should freeze motion with the background blurring out alittle. If you really cannot stablised your hands ( with IS ) or otherwise wants to freeze something really badly, you can go as high as 1/200 sec. But your background might not turn out warm and colors may suffer.

If I were you and having a lens with image stablised I would stick to these setting :

ISO 400
Aperture 2.8
shutter speed 1/20

For the flash setting I would probably use manual mode. However if you are not familiar on the exact way to use then stick to the TTL mode. It should give you reasonably interesting and acceptable images. But be warm, the likes of gary fong LS tilting upwards, it uses alot of battery power. Bring more batteries and always check preview after you fire. Sometimes your second might not be bright enough when your immediate first shutter was shot in full power.

The above are guides. Take some test shots before you start your serious ones. This ensures less misatkes. =)

 

[Redsun]

use settings you're familar with
No point trying something new on a impt day for you
ISO 800 should be no prob for 30D
its actually quite hard for us to tell you exactly what shutter speed,aperture to use
because we don't know what its like there
Good luck!

 

[megaweb]

If I were you and having a lens with image stablised I would stick to these setting :

ISO 400
Aperture 2.8
shutter speed 1/20

I will not recommend f2.8 as DOF is too shallow for group shots.

 

[ahliang]

Why dun fix a aperture ie F8 and shutter speed like 1/30 and let the flash handle the rest?

 

[chopper]

Lots of good advice. And all make very good sense. Yes, it's a very important event, 70th birthday, you can imagine.

Definitely will have a few extra battery and CF card to standby, plus by EOS 3 & G9 as backup... (May consider get a second DSLR as a backup as well) I will also do a lot of test shots right before full guest arrival, and try out some of the suggestion you guys gave. Keep more advice coming...

I will try to share some real shots after the event (end Sept).

 

[fabianaino]

I will not recommend f2.8 as DOF is too shallow for group shots.

DOF varies with distance. Dim light F2.8 is fine

 

[calebk]

DOF varies with distance. Dim light F2.8 is fine

Distance notwithstanding, you are still getting rather risky DOF with f/2.8, even at 17mm. No matter how dim the place is, I will still go for DOF over ambient light. A sharp face with a dark background is better than one that has plenty of ambient light but only the first row properly in focus.

 

[fabianaino]

Distance notwithstanding, you are still getting rather risky DOF with f/2.8, even at 17mm. No matter how dim the place is, I will still go for DOF over ambient light. A sharp face with a dark background is better than one that has plenty of ambient light but only the first row properly in focus.

any pns or slr in AUTO mode can do that job of a sharp face and dark background.
at 17mm .... it's not that hard to get sharp images with flash ..unless you cannot stabilised.

 

[catchlights]

any pns or slr in AUTO mode can do that job of a sharp face and dark background.
at 17mm .... it's not that hard to get sharp images with flash ..unless you cannot stabilised.

at f2.8, the DOF is very shallow, for a single subject is fine, shooting a group photos with this aperture is not practical, even it is shooting at wide angle.

you are telling TS shooting f2.8 thru out, maybe to you, you able to manage, but to TS, this is very dangerous.

 

[CreaXion]

Why dun fix a aperture ie F8 and shutter speed like 1/30 and let the flash handle the rest?

Under restaurant lighting, F8 with ISO 800 will usually not give you very bright photos even with your 430 flash. The flash will consume more power and recharge rate becomes slow. Adding to the problem is u are using your dome. Your dome would reduce the light intensity further limiting the distance thrown.


At speed 1/30, confirm that your hands dun move during group shot or your subject dun move. Hence, stick to 1/50 as your lowest guide.

 

[CreaXion]

at f2.8, the DOF is very shallow, for a single subject is fine, shooting a group photos with this aperture is not practical, even it is shooting at wide angle.

you are telling TS shooting f2.8 thru out, maybe to you, you able to manage, but to TS, this is very dangerous.

Agree to this opinion. Even though at longer distance, the DOF of F2.8 is more, it is still relatively dangerous as images may be softer than at F5.6. I used to use 30D, the grain of ISO 800 is very acceptable on 4R unless u badly underexpose it.

To shoot at 1/20 throughout is extremely dangerous for inexperienced users. Yes, u may get bright images but a ghostly effect of movement is almost always present within the photos. Not very suitable for event photos. Good to have for a few to add to the effect but not throughout the album.

1/20 will also capture a lot of ambient light. Under restaurant lighting, the photo may become too yellow instead of warm.

 

[fabianaino]

at f2.8, the DOF is very shallow, for a single subject is fine, shooting a group photos with this aperture is not practical, even it is shooting at wide angle.

you are telling TS shooting f2.8 thru out, maybe to you, you able to manage, but to TS, this is very dangerous.

yes I shoot at 2.8 thru out a club dim light environment and no my picture's not soft, they are sharp and bright and hence my recommendation. =)

I have lotsa DOF at 2.8 for group photos at 17mm. If I zoom to 55mm, I isolate the subject very well and again sharp picture. =)

it's not dangerous. =)

And where's the TS .... tell us your aftermath experience shooting at 2.8 and 5.6. which you like better at 1/30 of a sec and flash at TTL . =)

 

[calebk]

any pns or slr in AUTO mode can do that job of a sharp face and dark background.
at 17mm .... it's not that hard to get sharp images with flash ..unless you cannot stabilised.

We are not talking about blur from camera shake, or inherent lens softness. I think you have missed the point - f/2.8 provides too shallow a DOF to be within safe tolerances for group shots.

yes I shoot at 2.8 thru out a club dim light environment and no my picture's not soft, they are sharp and bright and hence my recommendation. =)

I have lotsa DOF at 2.8 for group photos at 17mm. If I zoom to 55mm, I isolate the subject very well and again sharp picture. =)

it's not dangerous. =)

And where's the TS .... tell us your aftermath experience shooting at 2.8 and 5.6. which you like better at 1/30 of a sec and flash at TTL . =)

How large are your group photos? I am thinking no more than 7 people, and no more than one row. That is probably why. Hey, I can pull that off with my 16-35 at 16mm and f/2.8 too, but I will still play it safe. There are things that you can risk and things that you should play safe, and IMHO a group photo is one of those things you play safe - all the time.

We are talking about DOF provided by stopping down, not improved sharpness of a lens by stopping down, by the way...you seem to have rather missed the point.

Are you being paid for your shots? If you insist that it's not dangerous, more power to you man...There are some rules in photography that can be broken and others that I feel one should adhere to, and group photos with f/2.8 is a strict no-no, by most paid photographers' rule books, me included.

By the way, shooting at f/2.8 and f/5.6 will have no impact on your ambient light. It will purely affect how hard your flash has to work.

 

[catchlights]

yes I shoot at 2.8 thru out a club dim light environment and no my picture's not soft, they are sharp and bright and hence my recommendation. =)

I have lotsa DOF at 2.8 for group photos at 17mm. If I zoom to 55mm, I isolate the subject very well and again sharp picture. =)

it's not dangerous. =)

And where's the TS .... tell us your aftermath experience shooting at 2.8 and 5.6. which you like better at 1/30 of a sec and flash at TTL . =)

No photographers I know of, will want to shoot a group photo at f2.8, and with a shutter speed of 1/20s.

As what TS mention, this event is very important to him, be responsible to what you have suggested.

 

[fabianaino]

We are not talking about blur from camera shake, or inherent lens softness. I think you have missed the point - f/2.8 provides too shallow a DOF to be within safe tolerances for group shots.



How large are your group photos? I am thinking no more than 7 people, and no more than one row. That is probably why. Hey, I can pull that off with my 16-35 at 16mm and f/2.8 too, but I will still play it safe. There are things that you can risk and things that you should play safe, and IMHO a group photo is one of those things you play safe - all the time.

We are talking about DOF provided by stopping down, not improved sharpness of a lens by stopping down, by the way...you seem to have rather missed the point.

Are you being paid for your shots? If you insist that it's not dangerous, more power to you man...There are some rules in photography that can be broken and others that I feel one should adhere to, and group photos with f/2.8 is a strict no-no, by most paid photographers' rule books, me included.

By the way, shooting at f/2.8 and f/5.6 will have no impact on your ambient light. It will purely affect how hard your flash has to work.

stopping down doesn't affects the BG.

No photographers I know of, will want to shoot a group photo at f2.8, and with a shutter speed of 1/20s.

As what TS mention, this event is very important to him, be responsible to what you have suggested.

well, do suggest to him. I suggested mine. =)
Do suggest some thing which allows him to have more keepers instead of something theotically sound. =)