FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C / m43 ??


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ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
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#1
Hi guys!! I just joined the forum recently, and the amount of information just :bigeyes: WOW

However, opinion still need from those who is much experience, and I'm humbly asking you guys to teach me a little bit of something;p

The question is, Full Frame or APS-C??

Let me introduce myself a little bit. I'm a graphic designer, for about 5 years now. I've dealing with photography for quite a while, whether it's work or spare time hobby. However, I've yet to own a DSLR. I've been using others' camera (well... I didnt really earn much for the last few years... I've been saving for wedding and stuffs (Just got married last year hehehe))

My experience with camera are mostly with P&S camera (I actually own a Canon PowerShot SX230), Handphone (Well... Not a bad and cheap alternative choice for me... I do have a Flickr account, with some photos shot with a HTC Touch Diamond 2 hehehe...), DSLR (The company I'm currently work for, they organize a lot of those events and dinners, and as the graphic designer, I also play a part as their photographer. I use company's Nikon (really forgot what model) then replaced by Sony A58, if I remembered correctly)

FINALLY, I manage to save up and decided to buy myself a DSLR, MUST OWN ONE!!!

So here's what I think...

For my first DSLR, I hope for something that can lasts for 1-3 years before another upgrade is needed, and I wish to used it for maybe 70% hobby and 30% work. There are so many things I wanna try (Light painting, macro photography, a little bit Video Shooting, etc) and I want to build up my portfolio, so that I can eventually step into real business world in the future (Event photography, Studio, etc)

Currently there are 4 cameras on my wish list, 2 FF, and 2 APS-C, being...
Nikon D610 & Canon 6D (FF), Nikon D7100 & Canon 70D (APS-C)

One of my friend recommended me the Nikon D700, and I'm quite impress with the reviews. If I were to go for it, that means 2nd hand.

And everything still come down to the most important thing... BUDGET... Well, I can't really shell out much, as you can see my choices, being either it's entry FF, or APS-C... I can say somewhere around 3,000 SGD, with or without lens. I'm willing to shell out more for lenses if I were to go for a FF DSLR.

The main question is which camera will last longer before I got hit by the so called "limitation", and another upgrade is needed. I've been digging around for reviews, photos, and friends' opinions. As you would already know, some says this and some says that, there was never a very decisive opinion that makes me pull the trigger and get "THAT" camera. So now, I'm humbly ask for your opinion, and hopefully I will eventually come up with a decision.

P.S. I might seems to demand or ask for too much, but hopefully you guys can forgive me, as being a graphic designer for so many years with little exposure to photography, I really don't know what should I've asked or shouldn't. I didn't even know for sure whether this tread should be in here :sweat: (If I've started the thread at the wrong place, please help me move to a much appropriate place, thank you Mod!!!)

Thank you for your time, and wish you a happy day!!
Cheers!!!
 

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ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,353
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sing
#2
Most go the route of entry level, then mid range and on to full frame. It means you spend a lot more money along the way to your final destination.
If you are a graphic designer, then you may appreciate full frame more than general public. So just take 1 step. Buy full frame. Get it right the first time.
No need for most expensive brand and top model. Even a good condition 2nd hand Canon 5D Mk2 (old model) can do. If you like to spend then a new Canon 5D Mk3.
 

simon6z

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2010
845
7
18
Near Bishan Park Macdonald
#3
Define yourself lor, You gonna sell photos? You gonna take out of this world pictures? Your criteria as in a hobby or temporary thing?

Do homework on stuff you gonna buy or get or you can join us in outings by veterans
 

daredevil123

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 25, 2005
21,662
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#4
If you cannot find any justification yourself to get one over the other, then just go for the lower and cheaper option.
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
13
38
Singapore (west)
#5
Most go the route of entry level, then mid range and on to full frame. It means you spend a lot more money along the way to your final destination.
If you are a graphic designer, then you may appreciate full frame more than general public. So just take 1 step. Buy full frame. Get it right the first time.
No need for most expensive brand and top model. Even a good condition 2nd hand Canon 5D Mk2 (old model) can do. If you like to spend then a new Canon 5D Mk3.
Thanks for the advice. Is the 5D Mk2 still superior compare to the lastest models? As I went around the web, even my friends mentioned about the problem with the focusing problem. I had my pre-wedding photo shot by a 5D Mk2, I did notice quite a few "out of focus" problem. I'm sure whether is the photographer's problem or the camera itself. I think I will give it a try, try digging around and see what's the price for it. I'm planning to rent those cameras and test them out during next outing. Hopefully I can find what I really like. Cheers!!!
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
13
38
Singapore (west)
#6
Define yourself lor, You gonna sell photos? You gonna take out of this world pictures? Your criteria as in a hobby or temporary thing?

Do homework on stuff you gonna buy or get or you can join us in outings by veterans
I think for the photo selling part, might not be a very big part of my short term planning, mostly I will just stick around, shooting some urban and nature, and some travel photo, as me and my wife will travel to another at least once a year. Well, like I said, it's gonna be 70% hobby and 30% work for now, so it's definitely not a 5 mins hotness thing.

Yes I'm gonna do more homework, and planning to rent the cameras to test them out on field. I still not yet "dare" to join veterans outing LOL, still worry being a burden to all ahahaha... Let me am lian a bit first!

Thank you!!
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
13
38
Singapore (west)
#7
If you cannot find any justification yourself to get one over the other, then just go for the lower and cheaper option.
Well, I'm still looking for the justification, so I'm still open to all the opinion and gonna do experiments more!!

Thanks!
 

richiemccaw1

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2013
3,103
27
48
Singapore
#8
Bro I think most of the advice that you are going to get is to get something cheaper, i.e. APS-C, until your photography skills are close to outgrowing that format before spending more on a FF body.
 

NikF601

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2010
1,541
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#9
I see you can start from 3K budget, both 6 number version FF for Nikon and canon are excellent for your usage and lighter during travel, able to handle low light condition. Invest on good lens that should move you to another level.
 

voice123

New Member
Jan 16, 2012
526
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Singapore
#10
u so fast get ff camera, u will give up very fast one. cos the camera weight is a turn off. i started with 5dmark2 then less than a year i brought another crop body and keep using already.
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
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Singapore (west)
#11
Bro I think most of the advice that you are going to get is to get something cheaper, i.e. APS-C, until your photography skills are close to outgrowing that format before spending more on a FF body.
Thanks for the tips bro!!

Well, that's one of the reason I'm hesitating to go for a FF body, as I get to spend more in lenses to explore more. One thing i notice is, there's a "benefit" using the cropped sensor, as it can "extend" the focus length of lens, in a way I can save a little bit of money on Zoom lenses, as wildlife is 1 of the subject I would like to venture into. Not like those National Geography stuff, maybe just go to the Singapore Zoo, Botanical Park for some insect or bird if i'm lucky. (Not sure whether I said it right on the focus length part, as that's only my understanding after research hehehe...)

I will take this into consideration, thank you!!!
 

Edwin Francis

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2006
883
3
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#12
For newcomers to the hobby, my take is to go cheap on the body, leave money for lenses, accessories, and for the other little luxuries of life. And yeah, if you like 'reach' then APS-C bodies give you more tele reach than FF bodies with the same lens.
You may not think weight is a consideration, but an additional 500g in your bag makes a difference at the end of a long day (one of the reasons mirrorless cams are so popular!)
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
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38
Singapore (west)
#13
I see you can start from 3K budget, both 6 number version FF for Nikon and canon are excellent for your usage and lighter during travel, able to handle low light condition. Invest on good lens that should move you to another level.
Yes, I think so too. I'm gonna rent cameras and lenses to try out on the field!!
I personally prefer the Nikon D610 actually, as I found out most of the website do rate D610 higher than the Canon 6D. But still, I know the score is just for reference, so I'm still going to test them out for real!!

Thank you!!
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
13
38
Singapore (west)
#14
u so fast get ff camera, u will give up very fast one. cos the camera weight is a turn off. i started with 5dmark2 then less than a year i brought another crop body and keep using already.
Ya, that's might be true for some of the ppl that just started to get into photography. But I've handled a few (2 actually for work) DSLR for events and dinners, most of them are 3-4 hours per session. I think I can bare with the weight and size, for me, the Nikon I used is a old model, and it's HEAVY (not very very heavy, but still heavier than most of the new cameras out there), and the Canon A58, the weight is still nice to hold and shoot for 3-4 hours. I think the form factor is one of the things to be considered, but for now, I care more for the limitation and potential of the camera, where by it can last as long as possible before another upgrade is required. For example, the 5D Mk2 and D700, still recommended by many people despite their ages.

Thank you for your input!! I will definitely consider the crop body as well, as I'm much leaning to the Canon 70D
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
13
38
Singapore (west)
#15
For newcomers to the hobby, my take is to go cheap on the body, leave money for lenses, accessories, and for the other little luxuries of life. And yeah, if you like 'reach' then APS-C bodies give you more tele reach than FF bodies with the same lens.
You may not think weight is a consideration, but an additional 500g in your bag makes a difference at the end of a long day (one of the reasons mirrorless cams are so popular!)
I'm totally agree with you. I think that's the best way I can fully utilize my 3000 SGD budget.

I understand the weight problem, and I think there are a lot of people out there that are more than willing to carry out a few more pieces of gears, just to get the perfect shot they've work so hard for. They inspire me, and I will start off strong, and get used to it and take it as a training LOL

Not to deter mirrorless camera, but I still prefer a great body with great quality. Who knows, maybe in the future when I get lazy, I might go with one of those and be very very happy about it, hahaha!

Thank you sir!! Havee a nice day!!
 

SkyStrike

Moderator
Staff member
Nov 29, 2010
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#16
I'm totally agree with you. I think that's the best way I can fully utilize my 3000 SGD budget.

I understand the weight problem, and I think there are a lot of people out there that are more than willing to carry out a few more pieces of gears, just to get the perfect shot they've work so hard for. They inspire me, and I will start off strong, and get used to it and take it as a training LOL

Not to deter mirrorless camera, but I still prefer a great body with great quality. Who knows, maybe in the future when I get lazy, I might go with one of those and be very very happy about it, hahaha!

Thank you sir!! Havee a nice day!!
It may be worthy to note that despite the smaller sensor size of m43, the image quality isn't that bad or as worse off compared to apsc/ff.

And after lugging the gears around for 1/2 a day or longer, the weight really takes a toll on your body. It might be still ok if you only go around with 1 or 2 small and light lenses.

But when you throw the trinity (16-35, 24-70,70-200 in, it's a different story... Not forgetting other accessories and misc stuffs. It all adds up.
 

Shizuma

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2012
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#17
I'll offer you the most challenging... get a canon rebel with kit lens. @$300. push it to limit
 

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obfuscate

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Nov 20, 2008
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#18
If you are coming from a PnS background, you need to know that a DSLR is not a camera that will give you a depth of field like PnS, so images will be less sharp front to back at the larger apertures. This will be true especially for FF compared to APSC. Portability is another issue, DSLRs are not cameras that you can carry around with you. If you desire portability, it has to be APSC mirrorless like the Fuji or fixed focal length like the Leica X2 or FF like the RX1 or RX1R, all within your means. Just a note of caution, let's assume that there is a possibility that you do not like the camera that you have purchased and decide to sell it, only Canon and Nikons have better resale value. Also, I would never recommend any cameras that cannot support a flash that can both tilt and swivel.
 

voice123

New Member
Jan 16, 2012
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Singapore
#19
just a cation is the total weight u carrying only lor. else everything is fun
 

ahblack

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2014
1,040
13
38
Singapore (west)
#20
It may be worthy to note that despite the smaller sensor size of m43, the image quality isn't that bad or as worse off compared to apsc/ff.

And after lugging the gears around for 1/2 a day or longer, the weight really takes a toll on your body. It might be still ok if you only go around with 1 or 2 small and light lenses.

But when you throw the trinity (16-35, 24-70,70-200 in, it's a different story... Not forgetting other accessories and misc stuffs. It all adds up.
I know that the Micro 4/3 is not something that I should be underestimate, and it's steadily developed and getting more and more attention it deserved. However, there's a reason why I didn't take it into my consideration, is that the limitation of the system. Allow me to explain this in my own words...

Comparing the Micro 4/3, APS-C, and the FF sensor, and are a lot of pros and cons. From portability to the quality of the photos, there's a lot things to give and take for everyone. For me, I wanna achieve the "best" of myself, which I have yet to find out what is it. Being a "not an amateur, not yet a professional" in photography, I just wanna give myself as much freedom as I can. For this, I'm trying to get the "best" camera for the "now" me. Despite all the wonders the Micro 4/3 can offer me, I still wanna go for a better equipped APS-C/FF body, so that I can squeeze out as much potential as I can from the camera and even myself, for a longer term (maybe 1-3 years?).

I know I might seems like the person who's looking for trouble, but I think trouble doesn't always mean bad. Sometimes, it can turn out to be a challenge, training, and maybe motivation. I think I'm still "young" in photography, so I think hitting some road blocks and some grinding are still necessary, hahaha...

I've learn a new term today, "Trinity". This is the first time I actually see this, hahaha!

Thank you for being such caring person ;) I will certainly take good care of my body. If my body is proven to be too weak for it, I will lift more dumbbell to get stronger!!!!

Once again, thank you for your opinion!!!
 

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