Film cartridge help needed!!!


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karnage

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#1
Hi folks, I don't know how many people here have done this before, but I'm SURE there are some of you who have.

Now, don't laugh...

I loaded a roll of Ilford Pan 400 into my Nikon FM2n, and happily went out to take photos. After my camera reached the 36exp counter, I could still wind the film. Sometimes, a 36exp film roll allows 38 or so pictures, so I thought that was fine... until I far exceeded the normal excess film. I became suspicious and decided to reel back the film.

To my surprise, it took only a few turns to feel the characteristic slack when you finish taking in the film! I took a chance and opened my camera back, and true enough, the film has been rolled back in!

Well, obviously, I hadn't fitted the holes into the take-up spool properly, and all my shots are bloody wasted. Now my question is, is there any way to pull out the leader end of the film, since apparently I haven't exposed any of the film? I mean, is there a non-destructive way to open the cartridge, pull out the leader from the slot, and re-cap the cartridge so I can use it again? Otherwise, where can I buy those cartridges that are MEANT to be reusable for self-loaders?

Hai... The moment I think of this ah, *shakes head* Damn stupid y'know... haha!
 

CS TAN

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Sep 3, 2007
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#3
I don't think it is that rare for people who shoot film to have this problem. I certain have done this a few times. I remember there is a small tool the photo developing stores use to pull the tab out. Perhaps you can bring the roll to the stores that still process film?
 

Dream Merchant

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#4
Take a biz card and cut to fit the slot.

Attach double-sided tape to the edge of card.

Roll back the film till you feel/hear the tip go past the slot. Now, roll again till you aggak the tip almost reach the slot.

Insert card with tape-end down, then very slowly continue rolling back. As the film leader goes past the inside lip, it should 'spring' up a bit, hitting the tape.

Very gently pull out.

IIRC, that was how I did it before.
 

karnage

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Take a biz card and cut to fit the slot.

Attach double-sided tape to the edge of card.

Roll back the film till you feel/hear the tip go past the slot. Now, roll again till you aggak the tip almost reach the slot.

Insert card with tape-end down, then very slowly continue rolling back. As the film leader goes past the inside lip, it should 'spring' up a bit, hitting the tape.

Very gently pull out.

IIRC, that was how I did it before.
Hey! That's damn idea! I shall try that!

And haha! Yes, I would expect some people to have done this by mistake, but I didn't think it'd be that common? :bsmilie:

Anyways, thanks y'all for the really quick and useful replies! I didn't know the film retrievers exist... nor did I even think that something like that would. Haha!
 

bahibo

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Aug 6, 2006
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Or your can go cathay or ruby , buy the thing called film picker that people do developing use to pull out the film leader, cost around 2-3$ i think. * edit : I just heard that some shop sell the film picker for like 18$ , ha ha , if 18$ then not worth it to buy.
 

catchlights

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#7
next time when you load the film, after the film leader fed in the spool, tighten the rewinding knock before you close the camera back. (manual camera only)

once you close the camera back, you have to c0ck two frames or c0ck till the frame counter shows ONE, you will see the rewinding know is turning while you advance the film. So you know you have load the film properly.

you can try the method Dream Merchant teach you, or use a short strip of film, plus you saliva.

you also can borrow a film retriever from any mini labs.
 

karnage

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Hey guys! I managed to get the leader out using Dream Merchant's method!!! Yay!

The only issue is, I got it out on the second try, but on the first, I successfully ripped out a double-sided tape's worth of velvet from the cartridge lip. Is that gonna cause any problems? Like scratch my film emulsion when I advance it?

And yes, bahibo, I'll take a look at Ruby or Cathay tmr... if it's $18, I think I'll stick to business card and double-sided tapes. But if it's $2 or $3, I think can buy. Haha!

And thanks, catchlights, for your advice. Will keep that in mind next time I load film... =)
 

karnage

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#9
Anyways, while we're on the topic of film SLRs, I'd like to ask something about exposure.

When using my f1.8 50mm, when I change the aperture to say, f5.6, the built-in lightmeter of the FM2n will automatically adjust to tell me if the exposure is correct. But when I depress my depth of field preview, the meter goes to negative. So which do I follow? The meter when I stop down the lens, or the meter when the lens is open at f1.8 but set to f5.6. Do you guys know what I mean?
 

Dream Merchant

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#10
What Catchlights said, and next time, be gentle. :bsmilie:
 

catchlights

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#11
Anyways, while we're on the topic of film SLRs, I'd like to ask something about exposure.

When using my f1.8 50mm, when I change the aperture to say, f5.6, the built-in lightmeter of the FM2n will automatically adjust to tell me if the exposure is correct. But when I depress my depth of field preview, the meter goes to negative. So which do I follow? The meter when I stop down the lens, or the meter when the lens is open at f1.8 but set to f5.6. Do you guys know what I mean?
No, depth of field preview is for you preview the DOF, not for metering.

when you change the lens aperture to f5.6, the lens is actually still wide open at maximum aperture, so you able to view and focus the lens easily, but metering will still base on the actual aperture dial setting, the aperture will only stop down to the actual f stop setting when shutter depress fully.
 

stonecow

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Feb 18, 2008
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#12
Yup this method always works. It's actually much easier than expected. Best of all, don't need to spend $$ on film retriever :thumbsup:


Take a biz card and cut to fit the slot.

Attach double-sided tape to the edge of card.

Roll back the film till you feel/hear the tip go past the slot. Now, roll again till you aggak the tip almost reach the slot.

Insert card with tape-end down, then very slowly continue rolling back. As the film leader goes past the inside lip, it should 'spring' up a bit, hitting the tape.

Very gently pull out.

IIRC, that was how I did it before.
 

lsisaxon

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Nov 29, 2004
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#13
Hey guys! I managed to get the leader out using Dream Merchant's method!!! Yay!

The only issue is, I got it out on the second try, but on the first, I successfully ripped out a double-sided tape's worth of velvet from the cartridge lip. Is that gonna cause any problems? Like scratch my film emulsion when I advance it?

And yes, bahibo, I'll take a look at Ruby or Cathay tmr... if it's $18, I think I'll stick to business card and double-sided tapes. But if it's $2 or $3, I think can buy. Haha!

And thanks, catchlights, for your advice. Will keep that in mind next time I load film... =)
The velvet is to block out the light when the film can is out. You should load and unload under subdued light and use a dark film can (kodak) for storage and transport.

Actually, you should have just gone to a lab and ask them to help you pull it out.. ;p
 

karnage

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#14
The velvet is to block out the light when the film can is out. You should load and unload under subdued light and use a dark film can (kodak) for storage and transport.

Actually, you should have just gone to a lab and ask them to help you pull it out.. ;p
Ya, I know. But it wasn't like all the velvet came out. There's still some there. But yes, will do it in subdued lighting, or at night. Ilford's film canisters are totally black too! I'll use that. Haha!

No, depth of field preview is for you preview the DOF, not for metering.

when you change the lens aperture to f5.6, the lens is actually still wide open at maximum aperture, so you able to view and focus the lens easily, but metering will still base on the actual aperture dial setting, the aperture will only stop down to the actual f stop setting when shutter depress fully.
I know, but since the lens will stop down to whatever aperture you're shooting at, it makes sense (to me at least) that we should meter according to that aperture, no? Or has the camera already factored in the drop in aperture enough to calculate whether the exposure is correct?

For example, say a scene at f1.8 1/250s exposes as "+" on my camera's meter (meaning overexposed).

If I stop it down to f4.0 1/250s, the meter shows "o" (meaning 50% gray, right?) but the lens is STILL at f1.8 to allow for more light right? Only when I open the shutter does the lens actually stop down to f4.

When I depress the DOF preview switch, the meter actually goes "-" (underexposed) at f4.0 1/250s. But while depressing the DOF preview and turning the aperture ring to say, f2.8 1/250s, it shows "o".

So what is the correct exposure for that scene? Since shutter speed is constant, should I get the aperture to f2.8 or f4.0?

I hope I'm not confusing anyone. Or should I have put this up on a new thread? ;p
 

Dream Merchant

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#15
Actually, you answered your own question in your first one:

When using my f1.8 50mm, when I change the aperture to say, f5.6, the built-in lightmeter of the FM2n will automatically adjust to tell me if the exposure is correct. But when I depress my depth of field preview, the meter goes to negative. So which do I follow? The meter when I stop down the lens, or the meter when the lens is open at f1.8 but set to f5.6. Do you guys know what I mean?
Use this simple guide:

If using automatic lenses, what you meter wide open is correct, even if you set the aperture at f/8.

When using manually-stopped down lenses like some specialised/technical lenses or very old lenses without the AI linkage/function, you have to focus wide-open, then stop down and meter to get the correct exposure.
 

catchlights

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#16
You only confusing yourself.

you are using a modern film camera, not the pre 70's SLR, so the lens do the metering while the lens aperture wide open, and it call automatic lens, like Dream Merchant mention.
 

karnage

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#17
Actually, you answered your own question in your first one:



Use this simple guide:

If using automatic lenses, what you meter wide open is correct, even if you set the aperture at f/8.

When using manually-stopped down lenses like some specialised/technical lenses or very old lenses without the AI linkage/function, you have to focus wide-open, then stop down and meter to get the correct exposure.
You only confusing yourself.

you are using a modern film camera, not the pre 70's SLR, so the lens do the metering while the lens aperture wide open, and it call automatic lens, like Dream Merchant mention.
Hahaha! So-o-o... since FM2n doesn't fit pre-AI lenses, I don't have to worry about all those stopping down stuff? And whatever is metered wide open will be correct? Haha!

Ok ok... Thanks guys! ;)
 

lsisaxon

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Nov 29, 2004
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#18
Ya, I know. But it wasn't like all the velvet came out. There's still some there. But yes, will do it in subdued lighting, or at night. Ilford's film canisters are totally black too! I'll use that. Haha!
:thumbsup: yeah..

I know, but since the lens will stop down to whatever aperture you're shooting at, it makes sense (to me at least) that we should meter according to that aperture, no? Or has the camera already factored in the drop in aperture enough to calculate whether the exposure is correct?
The camera has already taken into account the set aperture because of the ring with a tab on the camera body which couples to the aperture ring on the lens.
 

V

vince123123

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#19
Its quite retroish to see these discussions all over again hehe, especially since not many people use film nowadays, and most new entrants start of straight into digital. :p
 

karnage

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#20
Its quite retroish to see these discussions all over again hehe, especially since not many people use film nowadays, and most new entrants start of straight into digital. :p
Haha! I too am guilty of diving headfirst into digital... My first camera was an Olympus C-770. 10x zoom and I loved it! That's why my next move up was to the Panasonic FZ20, which I'm still using today.

Come to think of it, I don't remember why I wanted up from the 770 to the FZ20... :think: But anyways, I love my FZ20 and probably won't trade it for anything less than $300.

I have drooled over the FM2n for some time now and when I finally got it this year, I really love the manual focus and manual zoom. And of course, the optical viewfinder!!! Hahaha! Looking at more lenses now... which, hopefully are compatible with current and even future Nikon Digital bodies... so I have to pick carefully.
 

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