Extemely Pissed with one Forum Member

[b-a-k]

Had a very bad experience in a deal gone bad today afternoon.
Was selling my Canon MVX30i.

On my part, I was on time. But have left out 3 items.
1 telecon and 1 wide converter. in my camera bag in the car when i arrived.
2x DV Tapes (used way before i knew when i posted)

That fellow had the cheek to ask for lower price after i demo everything.
Used up my last new DV Tape to show the camera can record.

Maybe I'm still a newbie in dealing. But to be accused of not honest. And being a gangster or associated with gangsters or scammers or robbers. I cannot accept.

Maybe he is from Malaysia and is used to being scammed, robbed and cheated. But thats now the way we do things in Singapore.

Here's my reply to him cut and pasted. Those in blue is my reply.

Re: camcorder Let me explain.


Learn how to tell truth in the first place. For someone who say they hardly use the camcorder, suddenly they can use two hours of tape within the week (your two missing tapes).

I never used the 2 tapes within the 2 weeks. the tapes are stored in another cabinet and was used up long before.



Not only that from the time you mentioned that you left other items of the deal in the car, I became suspicious of your motives.
Have been warned by many, not only in this forum, that this is a scam.

I have indeed left my camera bag in the car with the telecon and wide con.

Probably will take my money and then say you go back to the car and see if the other items fit and disappear with everything. Or take me back to your car with maybe some of your gangster friends waiting to rob me.

Likewise I can't leave my camcorder with you and go back to the car and you may leave with my camcorder?? So now you are saying I am a gangster?? I said. if you are ok with it then we walk back to the car and get the other items and then you can pay me.


This is the type of scam I will be warning others in this and other forum. I hope you are totally honest and not any of the things I am suspicious of. To think that I came all the way from JB facing both way jams to your backyard and you have the cheek to say I was wasting your time.

I even bothered to offer to come to malaysia to deal at your convenience yet you declined


I never even ask you to reduce the items to pay for my taxi fare or that I was unable to test the still picture because you conveniently lost the memory card (you could have brought a spare).

Should I ask you to pay for my petrol use and cost of maintaining the car? and carpark charges?

I could go on but I won't. Just next time, please be honest up front and not take advantage of anyone I beg you. Take care and God bless.

Please don't think Singapore is like JB. I don't need to rob people to survive. if i want to rob you i won't pick a place like a open air carpark or KFC restaurant

Daniel

to add on, yes i could have brought a spare SD Card. All your PM's were replied and request obliged. i am damn unhappy. can those that have dealt with me pls give your comments?

 

[roygoh]

I have not dealt with you, but I will give my comments anyway.

First of all, sorry to hear about your unhappy experience.

From what you have written, I have some questions:

1. When did you realize that you have left out the items that were supposed to be part of the deal?

2. Why did you not simply go back to your car to retrieve it? How much time would it have taken you to do that?

3. It is your fault in the first place, to not bring everything that is agreed upon for the sale, so what did you offer to the buyer when you first met?

4. Why did you not strike an agreement on an alternate arrangement before proceeding with the demos? Why assume that the buyer has the obligation to buy because you have done a demo?

5. Did the buyer offer a lower price to get only the camera without the accessories?

6. Was the dialog in your post a transcript of what you and the buyer discussed verbally or was that from an email/PM exchange after the deal has gone sour?

7. How did the deal actually ended? Both walked away disgrunted and no money and goods exchanged?

Some general comments:

1. You are at fault first. Because of that you should at least consider making some compromises to close the deal. You probably could have asked the buyer if he would give you some time to go back to your car to retrieve the items. You could even have offered some discount on the price for his wasted time. It is not apparent to me why you could not just go back to your car to get the items while he waited.

2. You are at fault first (sorry I have to keep pounding that fact). Because of that you should have negotiated for an alternate plan before you proceed with the demos. If there were some form of agreement but the buyer just changed his mind then that was not obvious from what you have written.

3. You are at fault first p). The buyer travelled from JB to SG for the deal. Understandably he would be upset if 2 of you could not close the deal. I believe your thread title applies equally to both parties.

I agree that the buyer's suspicious attitude towards you is not 100% justifiable, and that his comments about you planning to scam or rob him is uncalled for. However, I strongly believe that the way you handled the situation has contributed to the escalation of the dispute.

Cool down, and I hope you have a more pleasant experience next time.

-Roy

 

[sandyforever]

If you don't have everything for sale on hand as discussed = your fault.
Not asking buyer to wait for you while you run back to your car to get the other items = your fault.
If you assume that using your last new tape for demo means a confirmed sale = your fault.
Buyer tried to bargain and you take offence = your fault (You should have said price is firm as agreed before meeting. He was just trying his luck)

 

[Deadpoet]

If you don't have everything for sale on hand as discussed = your fault.
Not asking buyer to wait for you while you run back to your car to get the other items = your fault.
If you assume that using your last new tape for demo means a confirmed sale = your fault.
Buyer tried to bargain and you take offence = your fault (You should have said price is firm as agreed before meeting. He was just trying his luck)

Cannot agree more. :thumbsup:

 

[roygoh]

If you don't have everything for sale on hand as discussed = your fault.
Not asking buyer to wait for you while you run back to your car to get the other items = your fault.
If you assume that using your last new tape for demo means a confirmed sale = your fault.
Buyer tried to bargain and you take offence = your fault (You should have said price is firm as agreed before meeting. He was just trying his luck)

Short and sweet...makes me sound so long winded...:embrass:

 

[Deadpoet]

Roy, you probably have seen too many moons, that's why, we understand.

Btw, a bit of OT, how's the Pac NW? Am in the Bay Area, the weather is just wonderful!

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

i suggest TS to close thread, else become a self mutiliating thread.

 

[Simon_84]

TS might wanna avoid dealing with ppl not based in sg after this experience.
but if this thread is in hwz, it would become a self-prawned thread, better to close it and move on.

 

[ortega]

i will leave it up to TS to close his own thread or not

some advice for the TS, i deal on a no bargain condition
i am upfront with everything, flaws and everything
I do not ask for an unreasonable price

I do not like to waste buyer's time and my time
agree price, meet, test
if happy then deal
not happy, then can still talk and have coffee if time permits

 

[Canonised]

But have left out 3 items.
1 telecon and 1 wide converter. in my camera bag in the car when i arrived.
2x DV Tapes (used way before i knew when i posted)

But that's not the way we do things in Singapore. :nono:

 

[sORe-EyEz]

:bsmilie:

Short and sweet...makes me sound so long winded...:embrass:

u got better english? :bsmilie:

& u cant use those words sandyforever used. wait kenna infraction for flame baiting arh!

.. den its really ur fault ler mah... :sweatsm:

 

[mohgui]

TS might wanna avoid dealing with ppl not based in sg after this experience.

i totally disagree with this.

i have personally dealt with buyers from JB. the item sold without any problems. he even offered to tumpang me to my next destination as it is along the direction he is heading.

not all people from JB are devils and not all people from SG are angels.

i fully agree with most here that the TS is also to be blamed. for not bringing all the items as promised to the sale site... that's a :nono:

any buyer would feel that the seller may have some other motives. can't blame the buyer.

 

[b-a-k]

From what you have written, I have some questions:

1. When did you realize that you have left out the items that were supposed to be part of the deal?

I realised it when i opened up the box and bag to find the items left in my car in myt camera bag. And right after i greeted him i told him up front i don't have the 3 tapes.

2. Why did you not simply go back to your car to retrieve it? How much time would it have taken you to do that?

I have already pasar malam the entire videocam to him. So i offered to him if he was ok after the demo, i pack up and get the lens back. but instead he tried to bargain. for offsetting the spare battery cost after i offered to reduce based on DV Tape price.

3. It is your fault in the first place, to not bring everything that is agreed upon for the sale, so what did you offer to the buyer when you first met?

I offered videocam, 3 tapes and 2 lens. i'm only short of 2 video cam tapes

4. Why did you not strike an agreement on an alternate arrangement before proceeding with the demos? Why assume that the buyer has the obligation to buy because you have done a demo?

he said proceed on.

5. Did the buyer offer a lower price to get only the camera without the accessories?

he never offer price.. waiting for me to drop price.

6. Was the dialog in your post a transcript of what you and the buyer discussed verbally or was that from an email/PM exchange after the deal has gone sour?

that was the PM

7. How did the deal actually ended? Both walked away disgrunted and no money and goods exchanged?

I stood up, shook his hand and said sorry for wasting your time. But i can't deal at your price. he hinted he needed at least $50 dollars to get spare batteries (which is not in the deal) after i offered $340, $10 less to cover cost of tapes.

Some general comments:

1. You are at fault first. Because of that you should at least consider making some compromises to close the deal. You probably could have asked the buyer if he would give you some time to go back to your car to retrieve the items. You could even have offered some discount on the price for his wasted time. It is not apparent to me why you could not just go back to your car to get the items while he waited.

Ok, well i accept the comment. I am sorry for not offering an alternative. As he and I were rushing for time, i told him i will demo first then get the lens. but after demo ended he pushed for a lower price. even hinting he needed have offset for spare batteries.

2. You are at fault first (sorry I have to keep pounding that fact). Because of that you should have negotiated for an alternate plan before you proceed with the demos. If there were some form of agreement but the buyer just changed his mind then that was not obvious from what you have written.

Again, sorry to you for not having an alternate plans. lesson learnt

3. You are at fault first p). The buyer travelled from JB to SG for the deal. Understandably he would be upset if 2 of you could not close the deal. I believe your thread title applies equally to both parties.

Well i offered to deal in JB.

I agree that the buyer's suspicious attitude towards you is not 100% justifiable, and that his comments about you planning to scam or rob him is uncalled for. However, I strongly believe that the way you handled the situation has contributed to the escalation of the dispute.

I may have handled the situation very poorly this time round. And thank you to all who have enlightened me. it helped a lot by having a 3rd party view.

the thing that PISS ME OFF is the ROBBING AND GANGSTER part
i dont see how dangerous it is compared to dealing in JB with me driving my car in...

Cool down, and I hope you have a more pleasant experience next time.

I have cooled. but even if i have brought out the 2 shortall items. and reduced price to compensate for the tapes. he would still psuhed for more discount by saying he need to buy spare batteries and what not.



-Roy[/quote]

Guys,

I want to thank all of you that have commented.
I now see the errors on my part.
Things that I could have done but never did.


Thank you guys.
but damn sian now cos i'm on standby in a ulu place.... thanks to ASEAN