DSLR Full Frame vs MIL cameras


theRBK

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May 16, 2005
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#21
actually, I don't see why it is necessarily "DSLR like quality"... with equivalent sensors on both systems, potentially we should get better images with EVIL cameras due to 1) more flexibility in EVIL-dedicated lens designs due to shorter flange distance between lens and sensor, and 2) no mirror slap vibration to worry about...
 

catchlights

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#22
They're marketing it as a device that can produce DSLR quality images in a compact package.
So that consumers can spend chucks on small cameras that mount lenses larger than the camera :bsmilie:

Jokes aside, compact camera sizing with the appropriate lenses and DSLR like quality.
thank you, just want to confirm that,

anyway, any serious photographesr will understand the important of proper camera holding technique. I don't think I can get a decent shot free from camera shake handshake here shake there shake everywhere shake shake shake with such camera......
 

brapodam

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Jun 12, 2009
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#23
actually, I don't see why it is necessarily "DSLR like quality"... with equivalent sensors on both systems, potentially we should get better images with EVIL cameras due to 1) more flexibility in EVIL-dedicated lens designs due to shorter flange distance between lens and sensor, and 2) no mirror slap vibration to worry about...
But the trouble is engineers still can't beat physics. You want better IQ, you need larger sensor. It is not impossible to put a large sensor in a small body, because electronic components can get smaller. But large sensor means large lens (unless you want really small aperture lenses like a 18-55 f8-11 or something). There's no way around it. Small body but large lens defeats the purpose of EVIL cameras in the first place: portability. Look at the Sony NEX series with the 18-200 attached; it isn't that small anymore. Put on a 70-200 and you could possibly break the lens mount.

Also, no mirror means more dust lands on the sensor every time you change lenses, as compared to DSLRs.
 

catchlights

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#24
But the trouble is engineers still can't beat physics. You want better IQ, you need larger sensor. It is not impossible to put a large sensor in a small body, because electronic components can get smaller. But large sensor means large lens (unless you want really small aperture lenses like a 18-55 f8-11 or something). There's no way around it. Small body but large lens defeats the purpose of EVIL cameras in the first place: portability. Look at the Sony NEX series with the 18-200 attached; it isn't that small anymore. Put on a 70-200 and you could possibly break the lens mount.

Also, no mirror means more dust lands on the sensor every time you change lenses, as compared to DSLRs.
you should look at the brighter side, sensor cleaning is much easier, nobody will complaint scratch the focusing screen or mirror accidentally, and they photographers can clean the sensor all the time... lol
 

pinholecam

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Jul 23, 2007
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#25
actually, I don't see why it is necessarily "DSLR like quality"... with equivalent sensors on both systems, potentially we should get better images with EVIL cameras due to 1) more flexibility in EVIL-dedicated lens designs due to shorter flange distance between lens and sensor, and 2) no mirror slap vibration to worry about...
Certainly so. The NEX and NX10, NX100 are good examples of APS-C sensor MIL cameras. Maybe we will even see FF sensors on such cameras in the near future (does shooting tethered count? :) )
Pentax and Nikon are rumored to have something in the works and I don't think Canon is not doing anything.

Then again imo, the EVF needs some way to go..
 

brapodam

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#26
you should look at the brighter side, sensor cleaning is much easier, nobody will complaint scratch the focusing screen or mirror accidentally, and they photographers can clean the sensor all the time... lol
lol I don't dare clean the image sensor...if I need it cleaned I rather send it to someone experienced in such stuff, or send to service centre...
 

edutilos-

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Dec 28, 2010
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#27
cqprime said:
Do you think the mirrorless interchangeable lens (MIL) cameras like Panasonic and Sony will overtake Canon and Nikon DSLR technology ?

In terms of picture quality ?
Anyone 's guess. I still prefer DSLR but mirrorless cameras are so compact, good as backup.
 

Sep 17, 2008
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#28
oh yea. one runs on live view, the other is what u see is what u get. one has a lag time and once doesnt
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
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#29
you should look at the brighter side, sensor cleaning is much easier, nobody will complaint scratch the focusing screen or mirror accidentally, and they photographers can clean the sensor all the time... lol
i propose those camera makers to make a dust sucker system inside the camera..
 

theRBK

Senior Member
May 16, 2005
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#30
But the trouble is engineers still can't beat physics. You want better IQ, you need larger sensor. It is not impossible to put a large sensor in a small body, because electronic components can get smaller. But large sensor means large lens (unless you want really small aperture lenses like a 18-55 f8-11 or something). There's no way around it. Small body but large lens defeats the purpose of EVIL cameras in the first place: portability. Look at the Sony NEX series with the 18-200 attached; it isn't that small anymore. Put on a 70-200 and you could possibly break the lens mount.
there's nothing preventing a larger sensor being used with an EVIL camera... just the marketing constraints and direction of camera companies...

and I don't see a full 135-sized sensor being all that difficult to put into a smallish body... Leica seems to have managed it with the M9 (no, I don't believe that's why the camera is so expensive... it's expensive because it's a Leica...)... I belief the problem is with the light coming from the lens being too oblique... but camera companies have tackled that via lens, sensor and sensor micro-lens design...
Also, no mirror means more dust lands on the sensor every time you change lenses, as compared to DSLRs.
no mirror also means nothing to churn the dust that is inside the mirror box... in either case, I believe it's an engineering question, not something that can't be tackled...
 

Berkins

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
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#32
cqprime said:
Do you think the mirrorless interchangeable lens (MIL) cameras like Panasonic and Sony will overtake Canon and Nikon DSLR technology ?

In terms of picture quality ?
Dont think the manufacturers will allow pic quality of MIL to overtake DSLR, for a simple commercial logic, maintain and grow the diff market segments. But other aspects of MIL are attractive, portability,fun factor, aesthetics, etc.w
 

cqprime

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Dec 8, 2008
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#33
Good point too. If the MIL is to create a new segment for the portable camera mkt then it wont replace the DSLR.

I find it weird to have a SONY NEX (MIL) camera to have a big lens fitted to its mount. It feels like anytime the lens w breakfree from the camera.

Dont think the manufacturers will allow pic quality of MIL to overtake DSLR, for a simple commercial logic, maintain and grow the diff market segments. But other aspects of MIL are attractive, portability,fun factor, aesthetics, etc.w
 

Berkins

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
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#34
cqprime said:
Good point too. If the MIL is to create a new segment for the portable camera mkt then it wont replace the DSLR.

I find it weird to have a SONY NEX (MIL) camera to have a big lens fitted to its mount. It feels like anytime the lens w breakfree from the camera.
I kind of like it... It has a geek factor, but I am not hopeful of the exclusive sony e-mount. I know a few ladies who shunned the nex series cos of the bulky lens
 

snowc

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Jan 8, 2006
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#35
Alternatively, you could pair it with rangefinder lenses as some people do. Only downside is that there's no AF.
 

theRBK

Senior Member
May 16, 2005
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#36
I find it weird to have a SONY NEX (MIL) camera to have a big lens fitted to its mount. It feels like anytime the lens w breakfree from the camera.
incidentally, Sony has a history of making big-lens-centric designs in their cameras, with the swivel lens F505, F707, F717, F828, and the big lens D700 and R1... makes the NEX family feel right at home :)
 

Berkins

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
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#37
snowc said:
Alternatively, you could pair it with rangefinder lenses as some people do. Only downside is that there's no AF.
Is there a converter with af confirm chip?
 

Rashkae

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2005
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#38
Is there a converter with af confirm chip?
Rangefinder lenses never had that in the first place. And the body doesn't support it. That's what the 7x and 14x focus preview zoom is for.
 

Fotophilic

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2006
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#39
In the near future i don't think mirrorless sytems can replace dslr.
We can only see mirrorless replacing dslr when AF, shutter lag, sensor size, ergonomics, etc issues are being address.
I am the type that believes the mirror box is unnecessary for digital cameras.
 

cqprime

New Member
Dec 8, 2008
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#40
According to NYT : “In this economy it is interesting to see people investing in things that are important to the family,” said Liz Cutting, executive director and senior imaging analyst at NPD Group. A largely male audience is driving sales of higher-end cameras, she said, “because it’s something they can buy without feeling guilty, since they can justify the purchase as a contribution to their family.”



Do you also when buying your new camera tell your wife that it is a contribution to the family? I do.
 

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