Do you think Pentax should come up with a pro camera?
- Thread starter scorpioh
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for me, i think i am well pleased with the k20d as of now.
i am not sure if i really want pentax to have full-frame, but in the event it goes full-frame i probably will not buy in because of the lens selection i have currently; the 10-20 is definitely not meant for full-frame.
the question we have to ask ourselves is - what are the advantages of full-frame? what does pentax lack - do we really need those features?
i am going to admit that there are people who WANT those features, but whether as hobbyists, as most of the pentaxian user group is.. at least in CS, i do have the opinion that we probably do not need it.
of course there will always have the added benefit of being able to have the option of upgrading, but as of now, i do not see any added advantage of having a full-frame sensor with super iso capabilities and fast burst rate, at least for me. you only need to look to see the demographics of the crowds that buy into the top end models of the other brands that will be considered "pro range".. personally i am going to say, only 10% fully utilise the features of the camera that the mid-range or entry level do not offer. maybe even less.
i am not sure if i really want pentax to have full-frame, but in the event it goes full-frame i probably will not buy in because of the lens selection i have currently; the 10-20 is definitely not meant for full-frame.
the question we have to ask ourselves is - what are the advantages of full-frame? what does pentax lack - do we really need those features?
i am going to admit that there are people who WANT those features, but whether as hobbyists, as most of the pentaxian user group is.. at least in CS, i do have the opinion that we probably do not need it.
of course there will always have the added benefit of being able to have the option of upgrading, but as of now, i do not see any added advantage of having a full-frame sensor with super iso capabilities and fast burst rate, at least for me. you only need to look to see the demographics of the crowds that buy into the top end models of the other brands that will be considered "pro range".. personally i am going to say, only 10% fully utilise the features of the camera that the mid-range or entry level do not offer. maybe even less.
Nikon is coming with the D700, Canon has 5D
Pentax & Sony still have to comeup with a FF body
Oly is out of this comparison as they are already FF 4:3
As a Nikon user, I would not buy the upcoming D700 but many will... I will do the same for Pentax line, having got my K20D, I have been very satisfied with the results and don't really shoot wider than 16mm
Pentax & Sony still have to comeup with a FF body
Oly is out of this comparison as they are already FF 4:3
As a Nikon user, I would not buy the upcoming D700 but many will... I will do the same for Pentax line, having got my K20D, I have been very satisfied with the results and don't really shoot wider than 16mm
It depends on what you mean by pro.
If you mean full frame/FX, I could not care less in general - 16-50 2.8 (565g) better than 24-70 2.8 (900g). Losing SR is also no fun, and having an even larger body is also no fun. I would like to have usable 3200/6400, however, and perhaps that will become possible with time. In any event I don't feel constricted at all with the K20D's limitations in this respect, at the moment.
Having said that, I would carry a 1kg (or 1.2kg body with integrated grip) if it provided me with (unequivocally) fast AF in all lighting conditions, >5 fps. It would also be nice to have a larger viewfinder (perhaps 100% x1.2+ magnification!), contrast detect AF, 640*480 3" (or larger) screen, and whatever other software/hardware improvements the pentax folk decide to include. (e.g. GPS, ptlens equivalent corrections, 30fps at 4mp, even quieter shutter, etc.etc.)
Having said that, I would rather Pentax release some ridiculously wide or long/fast glass (e.g. DA* 80-400/2.8, DA*10-16/2.8) instead.
If you mean full frame/FX, I could not care less in general - 16-50 2.8 (565g) better than 24-70 2.8 (900g). Losing SR is also no fun, and having an even larger body is also no fun. I would like to have usable 3200/6400, however, and perhaps that will become possible with time. In any event I don't feel constricted at all with the K20D's limitations in this respect, at the moment.
Having said that, I would carry a 1kg (or 1.2kg body with integrated grip) if it provided me with (unequivocally) fast AF in all lighting conditions, >5 fps. It would also be nice to have a larger viewfinder (perhaps 100% x1.2+ magnification!
), contrast detect AF, 640*480 3" (or larger) screen, and whatever other software/hardware improvements the pentax folk decide to include. (e.g. GPS, ptlens equivalent corrections, 30fps at 4mp, even quieter shutter, etc.etc.)Having said that, I would rather Pentax release some ridiculously wide or long/fast glass (e.g. DA* 80-400/2.8, DA*10-16/2.8) instead.
flowerpot
Senior Member
i assume u referring FF and the launch of D700
they will eventually, its all part of keeping up with the market, whether is it a need its another story...
if u ask me whether i would like to have a FF cam, i would say yes of course, my portraits lens would be perfect on a FF
they will eventually, its all part of keeping up with the market, whether is it a need its another story...
if u ask me whether i would like to have a FF cam, i would say yes of course, my portraits lens would be perfect on a FF
Pentax must differentiate - there's no point going head to head with the big boys with big budgets, and not to mention development costs, wafer fabrication tooling, etc
Pentax should revive their efforts in larger-than-35mm format (now that they have Hoya and possibly Samsung behind them) - now that's a proper portrait camera! :bsmilie:
Pentax should revive their efforts in larger-than-35mm format (now that they have Hoya and possibly Samsung behind them) - now that's a proper portrait camera! :bsmilie:
flowerpot
Senior Member
the development cost for sensor is already taken care by Samsung world's number 1 memory maker by a hugh margin
Image sensors are very similar to memory, and Samsung has 24hrs R&D, u can bet they are capable of matching with the big boys... Their first foray already producing a stunning 14MP sensor, trust me, they will not stop there What pentax must really focus is their lens lineup, things are looking positive, lets hope they make it... :thumbsup:
I rather Pentax concentrate on the 645D. In this area, there are no contest from the big 2. No point going head-on with those 2 with FF, Pentax just does not have the resources to win the fight.
For the MF sensor, Samsung could supply it, or tie up with 1 of the manufacturer like leaf or phase one.
Looking at the sensor of the k20D, I am sure Samsung have to capablity to do it. Dont have to be too ambitious, 28MB for a start is good enough.
For the MF sensor, Samsung could supply it, or tie up with 1 of the manufacturer like leaf or phase one.
Looking at the sensor of the k20D, I am sure Samsung have to capablity to do it. Dont have to be too ambitious, 28MB for a start is good enough.
I agree with flowerpot. Whats the point having a pro body without a good lens lineup to match. Anyway its a sooner or later thing for a pro body to appear.
IMHO, the K20D is already too pro for me. My photos are not pro so no point having a pro body. ;p
IMHO, the K20D is already too pro for me. My photos are not pro so no point having a pro body. ;p
To me this is really well said. I'm also trying to improved my photography to match the standard of K20D.:sweat:
FF will come for Pentax, but better later rather than sooner.
Pentax was a late entrant in the DSLRs and remains a small player in terms of market share. There is no need to keep up with the industry giants of Canon and Nikon to produce a flagship, proof of concept FF camera because Pentax could better use their smaller resources in other ways.
FF cameras will never be cheap at this stage because production yields haven't reached a stage where economies of scale can translate into better and cheaper sensors. That's why I don't see a digital 645 coming out so soon because the camera will cost a a bomb and from a marketing perspective, I'm not sure the camera will sell in numbers. Most working pros who used MF have already migrated to high end DSLRs, so the potential pool of buyers is pretty small.
Canon and Nikon have a large number of working pros using their gear and it is really this segment that the FF camera race is all about. FF cameras like the D3 probably don't make a lot of money for Nikon because at their price point, they definitely aren't volume sellers and many pros under sponsorship don't even pay for them. Their value lies in the pyramid of influence marketing that encourages serious enthusiasts and newbies alike to have brand affinity simply because the pros use them. It also allows Nikon and Canon to add a price premium for their products.
Pentax's best move is to wait and see consumer acceptance of FF and give themselves the time to come from behind and offer a product that exploits the gaps in the market. Pentax has other priorities that are more pressing like better marketing, product rollout, branding, etc.
Pentax was a late entrant in the DSLRs and remains a small player in terms of market share. There is no need to keep up with the industry giants of Canon and Nikon to produce a flagship, proof of concept FF camera because Pentax could better use their smaller resources in other ways.
FF cameras will never be cheap at this stage because production yields haven't reached a stage where economies of scale can translate into better and cheaper sensors. That's why I don't see a digital 645 coming out so soon because the camera will cost a a bomb and from a marketing perspective, I'm not sure the camera will sell in numbers. Most working pros who used MF have already migrated to high end DSLRs, so the potential pool of buyers is pretty small.
Canon and Nikon have a large number of working pros using their gear and it is really this segment that the FF camera race is all about. FF cameras like the D3 probably don't make a lot of money for Nikon because at their price point, they definitely aren't volume sellers and many pros under sponsorship don't even pay for them. Their value lies in the pyramid of influence marketing that encourages serious enthusiasts and newbies alike to have brand affinity simply because the pros use them. It also allows Nikon and Canon to add a price premium for their products.
Pentax's best move is to wait and see consumer acceptance of FF and give themselves the time to come from behind and offer a product that exploits the gaps in the market. Pentax has other priorities that are more pressing like better marketing, product rollout, branding, etc.
I am still struggling to match the standard of K10D :sweatsm::sweat::dunno:
Probably I have just spent about 30k shutter counts out of my K10D...still have lots to go. :think:
Gotta click the shutter more often.
The only pro level 135 camera ever made by Pentax is the LX, Pentax never aimed at pro market in 135mm or APSC format, although they did pretty well in 645 or even 6x7 format for pros.
IMO we won't see a pro level APSC or FF dSLR like Canon's 1D series or Nikon's D3 camera by Pentax, at least not in a foreseeable near future. Yes, 135mm FF Pentax dSLR camera will definite come, but not anytime soon, and it definitely won't be a pro level FF camera. If you are looking for a pro level APSC or 135mm FF dSLR camera like 1D or D3, better look for a C or N instead.
For most users, cameras like K20D are already overkill, anything better won't guarantee better photos to most of these users.
I'm pretty happy w/ K20D right now, but do hope Pentax will make the next camera w/ better low light AF performance, and probably slightly faster FPS (5fps will do). FF or not, not really a big deal to me.
IMO we won't see a pro level APSC or FF dSLR like Canon's 1D series or Nikon's D3 camera by Pentax, at least not in a foreseeable near future. Yes, 135mm FF Pentax dSLR camera will definite come, but not anytime soon, and it definitely won't be a pro level FF camera. If you are looking for a pro level APSC or 135mm FF dSLR camera like 1D or D3, better look for a C or N instead.
For most users, cameras like K20D are already overkill, anything better won't guarantee better photos to most of these users.
I'm pretty happy w/ K20D right now, but do hope Pentax will make the next camera w/ better low light AF performance, and probably slightly faster FPS (5fps will do). FF or not, not really a big deal to me.
What I wished for have been in next model line up:
1. Better low light focusing abilities ....quite frequently I need to shoot low light or w/o flash... until now stil sameainin the ...
2. White Balance buttons on the body rather than inthe menu. K20d has everythings accessible except this: pain in the ...
3. Improved the 11-points focusing sensor: k20d still using the same as the K100D..PAIN IN ..THE ...
Hope for the future:
A: DUAL SENSORS BODY- which can switch with a button that change you cam into FF..or Crop Sensor. Safe a lot of troubles with lens.:thumbsup:
B: Incoporated the glass element of FA star optical element in the sensors: so all picture look like star len output.:thumbsup:
C: After picture taken the is a in body focus adjustments bar to correct focus if focus was out (some companies have this tech) via menus since is after the event..:thumbsup:
Waht u all think folks?
FYI-I am still on K100D..since first time out in comex :Still being amazed by its ability...
but having the need to go the the menus to change metering/WB/AC-AS is still a pin in the ...
1. Better low light focusing abilities ....quite frequently I need to shoot low light or w/o flash... until now stil same
ainin the ...2. White Balance buttons on the body rather than inthe menu. K20d has everythings accessible except this: pain in the ...
3. Improved the 11-points focusing sensor: k20d still using the same as the K100D..PAIN IN ..THE ...
Hope for the future:
A: DUAL SENSORS BODY- which can switch with a button that change you cam into FF..or Crop Sensor. Safe a lot of troubles with lens.:thumbsup:
B: Incoporated the glass element of FA star optical element in the sensors: so all picture look like star len output.:thumbsup:
C: After picture taken the is a in body focus adjustments bar to correct focus if focus was out (some companies have this tech) via menus since is after the event..:thumbsup:
Waht u all think folks?
FYI-I am still on K100D..since first time out in comex :Still being amazed by its ability...
but having the need to go the the menus to change metering/WB/AC-AS is still a pin in the ...
Point A: Nikon already does this on the D3 and D700, but they do this by detecting it's a crop lens and doing auto-cropping.
Point B: Eh, it doesn't work that way. No matter how good the micro-lenses on a sensor, if the lens you attach is cr@p, there's no way it's going to correct it. Garbage in, garbage out.
Point C: Have you actually seen a camera that can do this? This technique works by actually taking multiple apertures and focal points at the same time and then stacking the images together into a huge, data-heavy RAW file. You can then select which one's focus point you like best. The closest company to achieve this is http://www.refocusimaging.com/about/ and even they admit it results in a loss of resolution.
I'd love to see Pentax come up with a limited lens like 40mm PnS with an APS sized sensor and IS.
Second Fengwei's opinion.
Pentax never really head to pro-level 135mm SLR market before.
For me, K10D/K20D level DSLR is already enough.:bsmilie:
I think I will not buy a DSLR body over $2k, even if the budget is not a big problem then.
I would rather use the money on top lens. :lovegrin:
Pentax never really head to pro-level 135mm SLR market before.
For me, K10D/K20D level DSLR is already enough.:bsmilie:
I think I will not buy a DSLR body over $2k, even if the budget is not a big problem then.
I would rather use the money on top lens. :lovegrin:
Great wish list! But that would make the camera as heavy as a TANK :bsmilie:What I wished for have been in next model line up:
1. Better low light focusing abilities ....quite frequently I need to shoot low light or w/o flash... until now stil same
2. White Balance buttons on the body rather than inthe menu. K20d has everythings accessible except this: pain in the ...
3. Improved the 11-points focusing sensor: k20d still using the same as the K100D..PAIN IN ..THE ...
Hope for the future:
A: DUAL SENSORS BODY- which can switch with a button that change you cam into FF..or Crop Sensor. Safe a lot of troubles with lens.:thumbsup:
B: Incoporated the glass element of FA star optical element in the sensors: so all picture look like star len output.:thumbsup:
C: After picture taken the is a in body focus adjustments bar to correct focus if focus was out (some companies have this tech) via menus since is after the event..:thumbsup:
Waht u all think folks?
FYI-I am still on K100D..since first time out in comex :Still being amazed by its ability...
but having the need to go the the menus to change metering/WB/AC-AS is still a pin in the ...
Agree 100% K20D already pro enough (even though DPR compared it against the XT450
) I hardly can use 20% of the camera features and the remaining 80% are complete unknown for me... When I can understand and use the remaining 80% and get satisfactory results, I will start wishing for more :sweat:- Status
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