Do we have enough blood in our hospitals?

[deckard]

Reported in the TV news, a pregnant woman who went for delivery in the hospital died because the blood bank refused to perform blood transfusion for her as she had hit her "quota". Before the doctor could give her more blood, her relatives needed to "top up" at the blood bank. The worried husband managed to gather 200 relatives at the blood bank in the morning, but the civil servants at the blood bank refused to open the door as it's not the start of office hours. And that's despite repeated pleas from the victim's husband and relatives. After the blood bank got its free supply of blood from the 200 relatives and agree to the blood transfusion, it's already too late for the victim as she had passed away. The docs stated the cause of her death as "heart failure". Do we have enough blood in our hospitals? :dunno: :dunno:

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

that 200 pack will help people for these few weeks i think...

everything have expiry date, blood also...

So should always do monthly donation...

RIP... so how is the kid? Delivered?

 

[jsbn]

I believe the security guard as well as the Staff working at HSA blood bank are not under the Civil Service payroll.

 

[swampthing]

The report on Utube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCr1ZoC_qYE

 

[damienster]

Just follow Law.... "Get my monthly salary and shut up... I need my rice bowl"

When do more things, if nothing happens or something gd happens, means nothing hapens.
When do more things, if something happens or something bad happens, means something hapens.

 

[wazzup]

World's first class medical service... LOL... cute.

 

[leejay]

Yeah, I saw on the 10pm news last night. I felt very sad as I saw the husband's anger and grief.

The worried husband managed to gather 200 relatives at the blood bank in the morning, but the civil servants at the blood bank refused to open the door as it's not the start of office hours.

If I am a billionaire, I'll sue them until they really go and sell blood to pay for their lawyers.

 

[wazzup]

LoL... you think a hospital is scared of lawsuits meh? LoL...they probably drag the case until you run out of $ for lawyer fees LoL... or alternatively, you can hire a lawyer-wannabe for free. LoL...

 

[night86mare]

I wish everyone would see the reason for policies, cold-blooded as they seem.

Blood banks are limited, we all know that, the fact that many Singaporeans only sit on their asses and make comments when there are news like this, instead of donating blood doesn't exactly improve the situation either.

Put it this way: if a person is using up huge amounts of blood from the blood bank, is it reasonable for him/her to continue receiving the blood which might be needed for other people? Big picture versus small picture. What if he/she continues to require huge amounts of blood, end up got one big accident on CTE or what.. Need blood, then got shortage?

No policy is thought out without any reason, I hope everyone sees that instead of just reacting to this. It is obviously, not wrong to feel outrage and all those first-up emotions that emerge when you view this incident from the viewpoint of the family, but I would think that one needs to look at all sides of the issue instead of just using their emotional side.

I think it is sad that people simply think of the most direct way to solve a thing, e.g. justice for the person who seems to be wronged. An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind; instead of thinking of how to hantum the hospital the problem needs deeper examination - like why we have quotas for blood in the first place. If there is sufficient donation being made without any need to carry out blood donation drives, etc.. Everyone will get as much blood as they need.

As cruel and unthinking as it sounds - how many of the family actually donated blood regularly before this incident? I would think that if you review the whole case it is not as skewed as you think it is.

Perhaps they should handle blood the same way you handle organs - if you are the organ donor list you will get priority, if you donate blood regularly your quote will be raised, and if you don't well you get blood too, just a lot less if you need it. Simple, isn't it, especially when humans tend to be selfish.

The media is good at sensationalising things, why don't we all take a look at an alternative article here, and from a personal viewpoint, I wonder why we express outrage at this particular incident, when the truth is uglier over here, I quote:

Singapore Red Cross facing shortage of blood
Written by May Wong
Channel NewsAsia
30 Dec 2006 1838 hrs (GMT + 8hrs)

SINGAPORE: The Singapore Red Cross is facing a shortage of blood again this year, especially with more accidents and surgeries.

The target is to get 85,000 packets of blood.

But it has only collected 82,000 packets so far.

Getting more people to donate blood has always been an uphill task.

And the year-end holiday and the wet weather didn't help.

Singapore Red Cross ' Elaine Tham said: "Every day, you would need about 300 donors walking in to donate blood. However at this period of time, we only have between 150 and 200. So we have a shortfall on a daily basis. And we would relate this to the rain. With the heavy rain, people are sort of deterred and also during this time, people are going on holidays. The festive season, people are so busy with shopping."

So Red Cross Volunteers have prepared brochures to encourage and remind people to donate blood.

 

[centuryegg]

I think it is not a case of enough blood or not in the hospitals but rather the operating procedures. If I dont remember wrongly the last I heard, hospitals provide services that include saving someone that needs serious medical help. I didnt remember that Hospital admin suddentely announce, "patient x has hit quota of 5 bags of blood. All doctors please kindly cease your procedures and proceed to patient y or z who has not hit their quotas yet. For patient x, if she or he dies..... too bad, it is cause she or he should have ensured their blood quota was met earlier...."

It is the attitude of the hospital that is more disturbing..... that a patient who clearly needs the blood transfusion to survive is denied it and the red tape that as it is not office hours, cannot open blood bank.


As for suing them? If it is a govt hospital, well put it this way has anyone ever sued the govt successfully in Singapore?

 

[westwest2]

was there negligence by anyone in this case?

I not able to figure out le...can anyone help...

 

[redstone]

Rules are too dead rigid, even in near death cases. :thumbsd:

 

[wazzup]

I wish everyone would see the reason for policies, cold-blooded as they seem.

Blood banks are limited, we all know that, the fact that many Singaporeans only sit on their asses and make comments when there are news like this, instead of donating blood doesn't exactly improve the situation either.

I donate blood, so I guess I'm qualified to comment, isn't it?

Put it this way: if a person is using up huge amounts of blood from the blood bank, is it reasonable for him/her to continue receiving the blood which might be needed for other people? Big picture versus small picture. What if he/she continues to require huge amounts of blood, end up got one big accident on CTE or what.. Need blood, then got shortage?

So just let the person die? Amazing loh...

No policy is thought out without any reason, I hope everyone sees that instead of just reacting to this. It is obviously, not wrong to feel outrage and all those first-up emotions that emerge when you view this incident from the viewpoint of the family, but I would think that one needs to look at all sides of the issue instead of just using their emotional side.

I think it is sad that people simply think of the most direct way to solve a thing, e.g. justice for the person who seems to be wronged. An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind; instead of thinking of how to hantum the hospital the problem needs deeper examination - like why we have quotas for blood in the first place. If there is sufficient donation being made without any need to carry out blood donation drives, etc.. Everyone will get as much blood as they need.

As cruel and unthinking as it sounds - how many of the family actually donated blood regularly before this incident? I would think that if you review the whole case it is not as skewed as you think it is.

Perhaps they should handle blood the same way you handle organs - if you are the organ donor list you will get priority, if you donate blood regularly your quote will be raised, and if you don't well you get blood too, just a lot less if you need it. Simple, isn't it, especially when humans tend to be selfish.

So his act of gathering 200 relatives for the act of donating blood was not good enough? Amusing loh... now a life's at stake, and the hospital instead of acting to save the person first, became a show for people to see the importance of blood donation? So one person's life in exchange for the importance of regular blood donation is to be applauded?

 

[night86mare]

I think it is not a case of enough blood or not in the hospitals but rather the operating procedures. If I dont remember wrongly the last I heard, hospitals provide services that include saving someone that needs serious medical help. I didnt remember that Hospital admin suddentely announce, "patient x has hit quota of 5 bags of blood. All doctors please kindly cease your procedures and proceed to patient y or z who has not hit their quotas yet. For patient x, if she or he dies..... too bad, it is cause she or he should have ensured their blood quota was met earlier...."

It is the attitude of the hospital that is more disturbing..... that a patient who clearly needs the blood transfusion to survive is denied it and the red tape that as it is not office hours, cannot open blood bank.


As for suing them? If it is a govt hospital, well put it this way has anyone ever sued the govt successfully in Singapore?

No, but the root of the problem lies with the shortage of blood and blood quotas is it not?

You cannot say that it can be entirely disengaged from the whole thing. From my view; enough blood --> no blood quotas --> everyone happy --> red tape issue would have never existed in the first place.

I am immensely displeased with the attitude the people take with regards to the people at HSA. What do each of you work as? There are situations where emergencies apply, are you expected to be at whoever's beck and call - would you want to? Once again, big picture must apply.

Make the blood bank a 24 hour operation? How many people you know want to work in the blood bank? They have to use volunteers some times for blood donation drives. I would be more concerned if the blood bank workers were slave-driven; there are issues such as ensuring that the whole blood bank supply does not get contaminated; as inane as it sounds there have been cases in other countries, not sure if it happens here why HIV-infected monkeys try to play a fool and donate blood. There are AIDS victims who got stuff through HIV-infected blood transfusions, ironic indeed, to be saved yet doomed for life. Not just AIDS of course, still have so many other diseases which can be transmitted through blood, just varying degrees to which they threaten life.

 

[night86mare]

I donate blood, so I guess I'm qualified to comment, isn't it?

So just let the person die? Amazing loh...

So his act of gathering 200 relatives for the act of donating blood was not good enough? Amusing loh... now a life's at stake, and the hospital instead of acting to save the person first, became a show for people to see the importance of blood donation? So one person's life in exchange for the importance of regular blood donation is to be applauded?

Oh yeah, well, this is the Internet, I can say that I am Superman, a supermodel and you won't know the truth would you? Doesn't matter whether you donate blood or not, it is after all , an Internet forums and anyone is entitled to speak their mind, there is no need to claim a higher moral ground or eligibility to speak based on one's situation, because it does not apply.

You are obviously mistaken and too emotionally driven to think carefully of what I'm saying. I did not state that the hospital was doing all this simply to put on a show, puh-leese. That is absolutely ridiculous, and any doctor who has taken the Hippocratic oath would probably have a heart seizure if he read this.

What I'm saying is that, there are 2 sides of the story, and it is not just stuck up red-tape attitudes and rules that caused this problem. The rules and red-tape would not be present in the first place, if everything was alright in the world and it was all Utopian. It is definitely unfortunate that this happened, but it HAS happened, and instead of thinking of ways to mudsling everything that we can because we are simply, too bored with our lives, we should be thinking of ways to correct the root of the problem. Simply put.

Have you watched war documentaries before? There is a shortage of doctors in the warfront, only so many to go around, so much they can do. I have seen scenes of people just being left to die, and they shouldn't have but they did because the doctors helped people whom they thought were more save-able.

It is easy to be an armchair critic and just say, oooh everyone up there on their high pedestals do not care, they just want their money; this may be true of some, but we cannot let a few drops of mud muddy the ocean and call it a muddy ocean. Being a doctor is not easy, especially when you are involved in life or death situations, we may all dream of a world where doctors act like Hugh Laurie in House MD, but welcome to reality; even superdoctors are limited by their circumstances.

 

[wazzup]

Oh yeah, well, this is the Internet, I can say that I am Superman, a supermodel and you won't know the truth would you? Doesn't matter whether you donate blood or not, it is after all , an Internet forums and anyone is entitled to speak their mind, there is no need to claim a higher moral ground or eligibility to speak based on one's situation, because it does not apply.

I quote thee....

I wish everyone would see the reason for policies, cold-blooded as they seem.

Blood banks are limited, we all know that, the fact that many Singaporeans only sit on their asses and make comments when there are news like this, instead of donating blood doesn't exactly improve the situation either.

You are obviously mistaken and too emotionally driven to think carefully of what I'm saying. I did not state that the hospital was doing all this simply to put on a show, puh-leese. That is absolutely ridiculous, and any doctor who has taken the Hippocratic oath would probably have a heart seizure if he read this.

Actually, I'm not emotional. You are.

What I'm saying is that, there are 2 sides of the story, and it is not just stuck up red-tape attitudes and rules that caused this problem. The rules and red-tape would not be present in the first place, if everything was alright in the world and it was all Utopian. It is definitely unfortunate that this happened, but it HAS happened, and instead of thinking of ways to mudsling everything that we can because we are simply, too bored with our lives, we should be thinking of ways to correct the root of the problem. Simply put.

Have you watched war documentaries before? There is a shortage of doctors in the warfront, only so many to go around, so much they can do. I have seen scenes of people just being left to die, and they shouldn't have but they did because the doctors helped people whom they thought were more save-able.

It is easy to be an armchair critic and just say, oooh everyone up there on their high pedestals do not care, they just want their money; this may be true of some, but we cannot let a few drops of mud muddy the ocean and call it a muddy ocean. Being a doctor is not easy, especially when you are involved in life or death situations, we may all dream of a world where doctors act like Hugh Laurie in House MD, but welcome to reality; even superdoctors are limited by their circumstances.

Ok. Now imagine this happen to you, are you going to say the same thing. If it was you in the news crying and showing the funeral of your own wife? Think. Your kid is now mother-less. Try doing it.

Your analogy works... partially. Yes, in the warfront lack of doctors, but they do their best, do they say "hey, tea-time, take a break, this fella can bleed to death till I get back to suture him." Here is the question of the ethics and professionalism, not finger pointing and bashing of the medical facilities in SG. If somebody did their best, I'm sure nobody will kpkb. Geddit?

Reported in the TV news, a pregnant woman who went for delivery in the hospital died because the blood bank refused to perform blood transfusion for her as she had hit her "quota". Before the doctor could give her more blood, her relatives needed to "top up" at the blood bank.

Read the above... they REFUSED to perform the transfusion not because no more blood, it's because she hit a brainless 'quota'.

 

[starrynight]

There is no quota in blood transfusion. But blood product has shelf live. There is also different and specific blood type. So they do run out. Dont get it wrong.
Relatives / family are asked to donate to top up or in the case of inadequate specific group, donate to the patient in need.

 

[night86mare]

Ok. Now imagine this happen to you, are you going to say the same thing. If it was you in the news crying and showing the funeral of your own wife? Think. Your kid is now mother-less. Try doing it.

I could easily throw a question in return to you.

IMAGINE that your family is involved in an accident, the wife and kids need blood transfusions. Then the hospital administrator comes up to you, your nerves are raw, you are weary and you wished you never got up this morning.

"Hi, Mr XXX, we are sorry, your wife and kids are dead because our supplies are short, we had given out a lot of blood to XXX and XXX because they came first, and even though they used up a lot of our blood, we continued giving it to them at the risk of shortage because we wanted to save a life NOW, doesn't matter whether anything happens next."

Try doing it! :sweat:

I hope you see my point, I do not DISAGREE that the family has a right to feel pissed, nor do any of you who feel pissed. But at least be fair and think it through. Look at the big picture. Can you predict what's going to happen next? Hospitals have a duty to the public, not any particular family. If the latter was the case, I would be very worried indeed, end of story.

 

[Zplus]

I wish everyone would see the reason for policies, cold-blooded as they seem.

Blood banks are limited, we all know that, the fact that many Singaporeans only sit on their asses and make comments when there are news like this, instead of donating blood doesn't exactly improve the situation either.

So you are saying that it is hospital policy to deny this woman of blood just because she has reached a quota? :bigeyes:

 

[arpinkor]

I know I'm gonna kena slam but I agree with night86mare on this.
Doctors are professionals and we should trust them to do their job. If the doctors (I believe there should be more than 1 doctor who made the decision to let the patient go) decide that the situation is uncontrollable, ie. you can keep on pumping blood in but it will just gush out again. Doctors are not God, there is a limit to what they can do.
We all sympathise with the unfortunate woman's family, especially with her newborns, who just lost their mother, but it's too easy to jump to conclusions and blame the blood bank or the doctors, without knowing the full facts.