Dilemma about purchase of camera


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Cr3nk

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Feb 27, 2008
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#1
First of all, let me start of by saying a hello to the fellow brothers (and sisters) over here at ClubSnap. Virgin post ;) ;p

Have been lurking about the forums for a few weeks now.

My dilemma lies in this, I have always wanted to go for a DSLR but I am an "newbie". Yes, there are entry-level setups or rather, camera bodies such as the Nikon D40 or the D40X for that matter. But i simply lack what it takes in terms of budget as well as large time in maintaining equipment of such high value and fragility.

The intended-to-be-purchased camera will also be used by my parents (who are not tech-savvy by any means) for their overseas holidays occasionally.

I have looked at Prosumer models such as Canon Powershot S5IS (which seems to suit me but was deemed too complicated and heavy by the older generation) and the Ixus 860IS, the latter of which is a compact and provides less manual functions for me to play around with as well as lesser expansion for future add-ons like TeleConverters or Macrofilters. Plus, for the price of the Ixus 860IS it comes very close to that of an S5.

So, are there any other alternatives for the best of both worlds camera? As i would really like to start getting into photography albeit on a cheaper and smaller setup initially.

Are models such as the A650IS capable of being fitted with add-on lenses like the S5?

Hope you all can help me out here. Sorry for being long-winded ;)

P.S I have read the thread regarding "Prosumers, the long and short" by nightmare and it was which i realized DSLR is not my pocket's cup of tea at the moment.
 

synapseman

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May 6, 2003
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#2
Hello,

There's no such thing (at the moment anyway), as a "best of both worlds" camera. There will be compromises, so you will need to weigh in the strengths and weaknesses of each type and decide which one will suit you better. I think it may be safe to assume that the best compacts in the market will not outperform the cheapest current-model DSLRs with the cheapest lenses in terms of speed of use, and image quality.

When it comes to compact cameras, I've always favoured the Canon Powershot A-series, and the A650IS you speak of is indeed top choice as far as I am concerned. It has basically the same specs as the more expensive G9! I have a G7, and it served me very well on my travels.

Advanced compacts such as these are great for general photography. If you push them to their limits, you will be able to get some really spanking shots. However, you will need to know about the inherent limitations of any compact camera, for example, they are not good choice for action photography, and to some extent, night photography. If you want to explore further into photography, there will come a time where you will outgrow your camera.

Yes, the A650IS does accept accessory add-on lenses, but IMHO, forget about those. They tend to be a bit fiddly and cumbersome to use, aren't really cheap, and after initial fascination, you'll probably find yourself not using it at all. I'm not sure about the Canon Powershot range, but in many other compacts, when you fit on a teleconverter, you can only use it at the long end of the zoom. If you want to zoom out, you will have to remove it. Same for wide-angle adaptors: Only usable at the wide end.

Sorry, I also very long-winded. If that was too much, then just allow me to summarize:

A650IS very good. No need to think too much. Can't go wrong buying it. :D

(All this, IMHO!)
 

night86mare

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Aug 25, 2006
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#3
between prosumer and normal consumer, or more advanced consumer, the choice is solely yours

to be frank, your parents will not have any fear of not being able to use a prosumer, there is also an auto mode.. whereas for you there will be manual functions to play with. some normal consumer cameras will ahve this option too, but not every one. not sure if a650is has it. the powershot a series are very good value for money.

also, as far as possible you would have to decide how far your "reach" needs to be. for example, if you are taking scenics and portraits then most consumer cameras would be more than enough to suffice, if you are intending to further it later on and want a camera where you can play with whatever you read in photography books or online or magazines, make sure, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MANUAL FUNCTION. this is especially good if you are starting out with a prosumer/consumer cam because well, you will at least have an option for more freedom, more creativity of expression, and most importantly of all, having hands-on instead of just reading theory.

i concur with synapseman that you probably would not want to put accessories on consumer cameras. other than that, the fact is that most of the processing in the consumer cam is actually catering for non-addition in the first place.. it is my view that the output will end up already more vibrant and colorful (which is why some people complain that their photos with dslr are quite lack lustre compared to consumer cam) than usual.. adding on stuff like circular polariser will be redundant, gnd will be really a hassle to use, and well even if you have an nd filter the limitations of the aperture size and shutter speed (if even applicable) would not make the nd filter very useful. so if you get consumer camera i say you can give all filters a pass.

so in short - you need to prioritise what is important to you. you already have a good idea of at least limiting your budget - most posters who post this sort of question, as i mentioned to somebody else just today, seem like headless chickens who have a lot of money to throw around. the more you narrow down your options, i would think, the more accurate your expectation of the camera, and the more pleasure you would get eventually, and the better a buy for you, yourself and you only would you make. cheers.
 

Cr3nk

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Feb 27, 2008
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#4
Hi,

Thank you nightmare as well as synapseman for the valued opinions.

As nightmare has pointed I do not indeed have much cash to fork out so I doubt I can happily step in a shop and purchase any entry level DSLR or top of the range Prosumer on impulse.

nightmare: you mentioned a no-no of conversion lenses for consumer cameras, would you classify the A650IS as a consumer? Or does the taboo apply to prosumer cameras as well? While I might not delve deeper into additional lenses, I feel it's best to keep my options open as compared to cameras like Ixus where the conversion lenses are just a definite no. :)
 

night86mare

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#5
nightmare: you mentioned a no-no of conversion lenses for consumer cameras, would you classify the A650IS as a consumer? Or does the taboo apply to prosumer cameras as well? While I might not delve deeper into additional lenses, I feel it's best to keep my options open as compared to cameras like Ixus where the conversion lenses are just a definite no. :)
conversion lens, i.e. wide angle or telephoto add-ons?

i think that would depend on the camera model, if canon has it under peripheral add-ons then you can get it if you wish, if you're hellbent on the a650is.

anyhow, i was talking about filters.. conversion lenses are a different thing.. cost a lot more too. :bsmilie: unless you get very expensive filters. also, most filter, whether screw in or slide in a bit hard to fit on consumer cameras. and yes, the 650is would be a consumer camera. then stuff like canon s5is, sony h9 la, panny fz9? these would be prosumers.
 

Cr3nk

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Feb 27, 2008
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#6
conversion lens, i.e. wide angle or telephoto add-ons?

i think that would depend on the camera model, if canon has it under peripheral add-ons then you can get it if you wish, if you're hellbent on the a650is.

anyhow, i was talking about filters.. conversion lenses are a different thing.. cost a lot more too. :bsmilie: unless you get very expensive filters. also, most filter, whether screw in or slide in a bit hard to fit on consumer cameras. and yes, the 650is would be a consumer camera. then stuff like canon s5is, sony h9 la, panny fz9? these would be prosumers.
I realized i am beginning to gear towards the S5IS as well as the FZ18 (w/ wide angle). Any opinions on Wide Angle other than possibility of issues such as vignetting as well as barrelling?

Have read your other thread in regards to how Sony H series has been gearing towards megapixel race as compared to practicality and have since discounted the H3 or H9 into consideration.

Thanks for the valuable feedback once again :)
 

night86mare

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#7
I realized i am beginning to gear towards the S5IS as well as the FZ18 (w/ wide angle). Any opinions on Wide Angle other than possibility of issues such as vignetting as well as barrelling?

Have read your other thread in regards to how Sony H series has been gearing towards megapixel race as compared to practicality and have since discounted the H3 or H9 into consideration.

Thanks for the valuable feedback once again :)
ahahaha that post was with the h2/h5 --> h7/h9 transition in mind

it is best that you read reviews on all the cameras you might consider.. they would be done in the same style with a certain degree of neutrality.

wide angle conversion lens - just make sure you get high quality ones.. i am long out of touch with the pricing though.. to be honest 35mm will be more than sufficient for most people.. so i won't purchase it just yet.

to be honest, i don't know anything after sony h7/9, fz18 seems more like a recent release no? other options you might consider which aren't too bad are the fujifilm xxxx series.. can't get 6500fd anymore but there is a replacement. no image stabiliser though, but better high iso capability.

for vignetting and barrel distortion on widest angle of prosumers, they will be there, due to extreme coverage of the lens (from wide angle to telephoto, only so much you can do when you want all-in-one).. but i won't worry if i were you.. easily correctable in photoshop. :)
 

posn75

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Jul 17, 2004
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#8
First of all, let me start of by saying a hello to the fellow brothers (and sisters) over here at ClubSnap. Virgin post ;) ;p

Have been lurking about the forums for a few weeks now.

My dilemma lies in this, I have always wanted to go for a DSLR but I am an "newbie". Yes, there are entry-level setups or rather, camera bodies such as the Nikon D40 or the D40X for that matter. But i simply lack what it takes in terms of budget as well as large time in maintaining equipment of such high value and fragility.

The intended-to-be-purchased camera will also be used by my parents (who are not tech-savvy by any means) for their overseas holidays occasionally.

I have looked at Prosumer models such as Canon Powershot S5IS (which seems to suit me but was deemed too complicated and heavy by the older generation) and the Ixus 860IS, the latter of which is a compact and provides less manual functions for me to play around with as well as lesser expansion for future add-ons like TeleConverters or Macrofilters. Plus, for the price of the Ixus 860IS it comes very close to that of an S5.

So, are there any other alternatives for the best of both worlds camera? As i would really like to start getting into photography albeit on a cheaper and smaller setup initially.

Are models such as the A650IS capable of being fitted with add-on lenses like the S5?

Hope you all can help me out here. Sorry for being long-winded ;)

P.S I have read the thread regarding "Prosumers, the long and short" by nightmare and it was which i realized DSLR is not my pocket's cup of tea at the moment.
Hi,

take a look at this video, it shld be able to answer part or maybe all of your doubts..

http://www.stunningnikon.com/picturetown/
 

Cr3nk

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Feb 27, 2008
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The Sweet Spot, Singapore
#9
Hi,

take a look at this video, it shld be able to answer part or maybe all of your doubts..

http://www.stunningnikon.com/picturetown/
Hi, thanks for the video :)

As mentioned above, I lack the budget as well as experience to maintain an DSLR even though the D40 would be ideal for me.
 

Cr3nk

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Feb 27, 2008
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The Sweet Spot, Singapore
#10
Hi nightmare,

Once again thanks.

Is there any idea what is the replacement for the Fuji 6500D? Seems to be the best choice for Prosumer due to its larger CCD as compared to other prosumers at the moment.
 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
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#11
if your parents will use it, forget the accessory lenses.
get something light and simple.
so many brands to choose from.

make up your mind firmly before you go shopping.
salesmen love telling stories to sway you to buy something else.
people end up buying $$$ things at the shop and wonder why later on.

so be careful about lucky plaza,
simlim square 1st and 2nd floors
peninsula plaza - the notorious camera shop near the corner traffic light.
 

Cr3nk

New Member
Feb 27, 2008
147
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The Sweet Spot, Singapore
#12
if your parents will use it, forget the accessory lenses.
get something light and simple.
so many brands to choose from.

make up your mind firmly before you go shopping.
salesmen love telling stories to sway you to buy something else.
people end up buying $$$ things at the shop and wonder why later on.

so be careful about lucky plaza,
simlim square 1st and 2nd floors
peninsula plaza - the notorious camera shop near the corner traffic light.
Thanks for the head's up.

I had a good laugh at Best Denki when the promoter offered me a compact to compare with the D40 citing that the only difference is the megapixels.
 

posn75

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Jul 17, 2004
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#13
Hi, thanks for the video :)

As mentioned above, I lack the budget as well as experience to maintain an DSLR even though the D40 would be ideal for me.
no probs mate, anyways there are options for a few pretty good conditioned ones in BnS. I believe they shld cost no more than $200 to $300 as compare to a prosumer ( unless you also talking abt a 2nd hand prosumer ).

I think if you do your math.. you might just be able to work out a DSLR option... good luck in your choice .. = )
 

Cr3nk

New Member
Feb 27, 2008
147
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The Sweet Spot, Singapore
#14
no probs mate, anyways there are options for a few pretty good conditioned ones in BnS. I believe they shld cost no more than $200 to $300 as compare to a prosumer ( unless you also talking abt a 2nd hand prosumer ).

I think if you do your math.. you might just be able to work out a DSLR option... good luck in your choice .. = )
I have my fair share of bad experiences with second hand products (not cameras). Not implying that the brothers here are dishonest or anything but often, the assurance you get with buying first hand justifies the extra cost (in some cases) although i am pretty sure that if one is careful, second hand purchases are more than welcomed.

After checking prices of the D40 kit, I do know that I can afford the kit first hand. My problem lies with the fact that DSLR lenses (assuming i would want the same zoom that is given in the S5IS or a particular wide angle lens) costs way too much as compared to purchasing a 58mm adapter and several filters for a S5IS set-up.

D40 is definitely something i would want, due to "noise" on Prosumers due to the smaller CCD but costs of lenses intimidate me.

Just another thought, in newbie terms, how many multiplications of zoom does the D40 kit lens have? For example, the S5IS has a zoom of 12x. Or do the DSLR have different focal length intepretation? :sweat:
 

zac08

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2005
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#15
The multiplication factor depends on the widest setting of that lens.

For DSLRs, we only refer to the focal lengths of the lenses. There are 11.1x lenses (such as the 18-200VR)

But the more common ones are about 3x only (18-55) And when you get to the prime lenses, there is only 1 fixed focal length involved.
 

Cr3nk

New Member
Feb 27, 2008
147
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The Sweet Spot, Singapore
#16
The multiplication factor depends on the widest setting of that lens.

For DSLRs, we only refer to the focal lengths of the lenses. There are 11.1x lenses (such as the 18-200VR)

But the more common ones are about 3x only (18-55) And when you get to the prime lenses, there is only 1 fixed focal length involved.
Thanks! That definitely cleared things up abit. ;)

This brings about another query. How can a prosumer such as S5IS have a lens that is 12x Zoom but for a DSLR, an equivalent lens of 12x Zoom can buy you lots of S5IS? Is it the quality of lens? Or does the optical zoom of 12x on the S5IS has it's own disadvantages.

Another thing that D40 does not have out of the box is Image Stabilization, pretty intimidating, the cost of a seperate IS lens by Nikon :bigeyes:
 

zac08

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2005
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#17
Thanks! That definitely cleared things up abit. ;)

This brings about another query. How can a prosumer such as S5IS have a lens that is 12x Zoom but for a DSLR, an equivalent lens of 12x Zoom can buy you lots of S5IS? Is it the quality of lens? Or does the optical zoom of 12x on the S5IS has it's own disadvantages.

Another thing that D40 does not have out of the box is Image Stabilization, pretty intimidating, the cost of a seperate IS lens by Nikon :bigeyes:
yes. The lens quality is the main issue which drives up the cost. For e.g. a good quality zoom lens from Nikon like the 24-70 f2.8, you will be paying about $2800.

The S5IS may be limited in terms of the sensor size, the maximum aperture available F2.7-8.0 (W) F3.5-8.0 (T), etc...

As for IS, just learn how to breathe properly and use a high enough shutter speed for the focal length that you are using, i.e. 1/100 for a 100mm lens.
 

Cr3nk

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Feb 27, 2008
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The Sweet Spot, Singapore
#18
yes. The lens quality is the main issue which drives up the cost. For e.g. a good quality zoom lens from Nikon like the 24-70 f2.8, you will be paying about $2800.

The S5IS may be limited in terms of the sensor size, the maximum aperture available F2.7-8.0 (W) F3.5-8.0 (T), etc...

As for IS, just learn how to breathe properly and use a high enough shutter speed for the focal length that you are using, i.e. 1/100 for a 100mm lens.
Thank you!

It seems i have to reconsider the D40 after reading all the suggestions. :)
 

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