Debate on $500 wedding package

[ckuang]

Hi Wshooter, don't worry, i'm not here to flame you about your low price or anything, but i was just wondering if there was any reason why you are advertising your photography services to a bunch of photographers? Would it not make sense to post a message like this on singaporebrides.com instead?

Anyway, all i can say is that if you can charge $500 and get away with a profit you are comfortable wtih, good for you. I strongly believe that there is a time and place for all photographers. Some for the high end market and some to the low end market. Some people have a business model where they cater to quantity and some have a business model that cater to quality.

For all those that are flaming him for the low price, hey, we all had to break into the market at some point somehow right? Do i agree pricing low is the best strategy, no. Charge $500 dollars, get treated like the $500.00 photographer, charge $15 000, get treated like the royal photographer. But we all had to get started somewhere.

Wshooter, no problem if you want to charge that low, just don't stay there too long. Your photography deserves better, your wallet desrves better, and most of all, you deserve better.

 

[ckuang]

BTW, Wshooter, do you have a portfolio online? For some of my wedding shoots, I need a second photog. Would you be interested? Pretty simple, just shoot and hand off, my production team will handle the rest.

 

[Dennis]

Yeh couples who just got married may not even mind if you use a consumer camera with 2mp and 10x zoom lens as long as there are pictures to see. No need to talk about bokey, large aperture, etc etc as they may not even understand. If you put pictures on DVD to view on TV you will soon realise that high pixle count are useless. Maybe "Pro" will need to educate the consumer more in order to understand what you can deliver.

 

[copperbird]

or U can also say PROUDLY: "PHOTOGRAPHY IS MY PASSION! MY LIFE!!"

hey friend,

is there any thread disscussing between film and digital?

cos seems to me young people who started to learn photography uses digital instead of film cameras, like that can learn meh?

please anyone reading, don flame me again, just curious to know....

 

[DHSC76]

Allo, you people too harsh on him already lar. I onli graduated from Xingapore Hokkien Uni, so my budget not too big. I oso want videographer and must give angpow to bladders and sistars on customary day. Never tio buay bio, HDB also coming, garment say sae kia juay juay, like dat how to survive? My wife see his portfolio if gum then i oso gum lor. All the pros graduate from New York or London Pillcady circus, juz relac lar. There are still people wu luay hold wedding at Ritz Carlton 1 hand easy easy can throw 5k. I holding at Intercontinental only.

 

[KeyserSoze]

If $500 hobbyist destroys a Pro's business, then it means that Pro's photos are not that much better for the customers to justify his higher price. If that's that case, maybe it's time for the Pro to stop complaining and either offer a better price (lower or throw in some extras) or try to improve his skills? Maybe the only thing about such Pro is his price, not quality?

If you say that customers are stupid and can't see lousy pic from a good one, or are so damn greedy that they will always go for the cheapest one no matter how crappy it is, then I am truly sorry for you, cos it must suck badly to be in the service industry with this kind of attitude. I am sorry for your customers, too.

Lol. Consumers that can tell difference in quality , means:

a) either the amatuer and the pro is miles apart and very easy to tell,

b) the consumer knows the little bits of differences that makes a GREAT photo from a good one. Which means he shouldn't really need to pay for something which to him now, is non-proportionate return in quality vs $.

I don't know how other Pros work, but not all pros are super $ oriented and driven. My sis's mentor was the old head of ST photo department, and gaev up lucrative job (over artistic integrity) and went to teach photography in a almost non-profit local art scene. And yet he actively participates in any photography events, and sometimes find it hard to make rent . So how's that for being a Pro ?

Not all pros are like Wee Khim and want/can afford super duper setups to want to do comercial photography. Some might just want to make livelihood, or for the next piece of glass he wants to add to his collection, or to roam the world shooting his next street photography anthology collection.

just a thought.

 

[Azure]

to each their own.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Hehe. the most generic reply, and also the most true.

 

[Bromba]

I don't know how other Pros work, but not all pros are super $ oriented and driven. My sis's mentor was the old head of ST photo department, and gaev up lucrative job (over artistic integrity) and went to teach photography in a almost non-profit local art scene. And yet he actively participates in any photography events, and sometimes find it hard to make rent . So how's that for being a Pro ?

Not all pros are like Wee Khim and want/can afford super duper setups to want to do comercial photography. Some might just want to make livelihood, or for the next piece of glass he wants to add to his collection, or to roam the world shooting his next street photography anthology collection.

just a thought.

Kudos to your sis's mentor, but to leave his job was his own decision which does not entitle him to be exempt from competition against other photogs, also on price.

As someone else wrote in this thread, to each his own... If wshooter chooses to charge less than you, then yay to him and his customers. Yay too, to those complainining he's bad for their business. But there's nothing ethical or non-ethical about this so a big boo goes to those ridiculous people flaming him and playing silly little games with the cockroach quotes and it says more about people engaging in such flaming rather than about wshooter himself.

 

[2100]

This is an interesting thread. Freelancing exists everywhere, like in similar lines such as modelling and make-up artists. I am a "pro" in IS field, you don't hear me complaining even though I/we know there is a problem. Shape up, upgrade, or lose out. Having good paper, good skills do not guarantee anything. Police still wear shorts ah?

PS. We eat rice here, not kang tang. Perhaps consider migration if it's greener on the other side of the fence?

 

[2100]

Nobody learnt anything from SARS or the recession?

 

[louispang]

My friend told me, "Cheap things no good, good things not cheap." It has a lot of truth in it.

Yes, it is a free market. But don't forget that there is also equlibrium in a free market--which is decided by demand & supply. In a normal market situation, there is always a market price.

Say 5-star hotel at S$500 per night, 4-star at S$300, 3-star at S$180-280. If a five-star hotel charges at S$150, then there is something wrong....perhaps SARS is back. Otherwise, the price will not be very far off.

By charging S$500 for a whole-day photography, with 8R prints, 360 4R prints, originals on DVDs... the photographer is also revealing where his level is. After all Mercedes Benz are never sold at the price of a Proton Wira.

 

[nemesis32]

Ok this has gone on long enough. Whatever your opinion & views on wshooter's charges and packages, pls respect his thread enough to refrain from passing price judgments. This is tantamount to people posting their opinions of prices being too high/low on B&S items (aka. thread-crashing). This is a free market so let market forces decide. I'm monitoring this thread and further OT remarks will be removed asap.

The Moderator
Marketplace

Yeh.. Enuff said!

 

[wshooter]

Keep the debate going guys. :thumbsup:

 

[KeyserSoze]

Kudos to your sis's mentor, but to leave his job was his own decision which does not entitle him to be exempt from competition against other photogs, also on price.

As someone else wrote in this thread, to each his own... If wshooter chooses to charge less than you, then yay to him and his customers. Yay too, to those complainining he's bad for their business. But there's nothing ethical or non-ethical about this so a big boo goes to those ridiculous people flaming him and playing silly little games with the cockroach quotes and it says more about people engaging in such flaming rather than about wshooter himself.

lol. To draw reference on mentor, wasn't a comparison that he is bieng muscled out of professional field. It was doen to illustrate that not eveyrone is money orientated or necessary wants profits. i.e. not pros in terms of making it a livelihood.

I think some of us are confused as to what constitutes a pro. Someone exceptionally gifted/trained at what they do ? Or someone who relies on his skills to make a living fulltime out of others that use that same skill (no matter the level of skills achieved) to be just good at what they do, or even to prove themselves to be good, go on with a sideline career into honing this skill.

I think a pro is made up of a bit of both.


Comparing service prices (esp in Singapore) vs comparing commodities prices seems different to me. services don't necessarily seem all that materialistically visible. E.g. Would you pay $5000 to do your new home plumbing over another guy who quotes you $2000 ? It seems obviously not. But why would anyone consider a Proton when you have the budget to consider a German (Luxury) Marquee ? Our topic in this thread seems a whole lot more complicated. Lotsa grey areas. So please don't make sweeping statements to try to simplify stuff.

:embrass:

 

[sundazz]

no rite or wrong here...
different people hv different value. can't compere.
n consumer hv different kind, some wan budget, some wan quality.
btw, i freelancer too, but not in photography, i do video productions from camera work to post productions. sometimes i oso shoot for wedding. at times i will hv enquiry on photography for wedding or events, some wan budget, some wan quality.
maybe wshooter can show me some sample of your work, hopes we can work out something. others welcome.

 

[feryl]

When I am getting married, wshooter will get at least a call from me for an appointment to view his portfolio. If I am not satisfied after reviewing his portfolio, I will just apologise for his time and look elsewhere (hey, coffee's on me :angel: ).

I know a little bit abt photography - aperture, shutter-speed, lighting, bokeh and all that. But ultimately, if i can't afford a 5K package, it means i can't afford it - i can live with normal wedding photos, as long as my wife is extraordinary

Someone mentioned using LOMO during the wedding; having used LOMOs before, I feel it takes more skill to take good LOMO shots during weddings than with conventional cameras :bsmilie: and i wouldn't mind paying reasonable money for that.

 

[Kho King]

1. wshooter, I respect and proud of the way you reply and deal with the various bombs from those PROFESSIONALS and ROBINHOODsss...

2. We always say internet is a free market and we have all and every right to sell things or services at our own price...when when wshooter advertised at S$500, then so much bombs...why huh? When you sell your lens or camera and CS's buy/sell forum, have you ever thought of the 2nd hand shop at Penisular Plaza? You sell so cheap and undercut their price? They have to pay rental and electric and water bills...have family to feed...so, where is your robinhood now? Why you buy cheap 2nd hand photographic equipment, have you thought of them (2nd hand shop's business)?

3. wshooter has explained several times that he got his lobang of getting cheap prints and CDs, so that leads to his price of S$500. Now, YOU say cheap price means cheap quality...where do you comes up with this conclusion from?

4. I believe Professionals have professionals' market. Let's leave that to professionals. Not everybody can afford a S$10k wedding, not everybody can afford to hire a S$5k photographer for her/his wedding, so let wshooter be the one to fit in between.

5. Like some CSers have previously mentioned, if the so call professionals are so worry of wshooter undercutting them, then those pro should review his/her work again and again and adjust the price accordingly. If wshooter can deliver the same quality work as what a pro charge at S$1k or S$5k, then...

6. Is S$1k the standard market rate for pro? or S$2k? or S$3k? How do you come up with the figure? Microsoft sells their WinXP and Office at $$$, I no happy...can't I choose Linux and Open Office/Star Office? Why nobody complain on Linux or Open Office?

7. When people do unjustice to you, so say it is unfair...when you do unjustice to others...you just keep quiet and continue...

8. Again...free market. Let's move on...nobody point a gun on your head to hire wshooter :bsmilie:

 

[tolitz]

1. wshooter, I respect and proud of the way you reply and deal with the various bombs from those PROFESSIONALS and ROBINHOODsss...

Thumbs up for Kho King ...a very good point indeed.

 

[mpenza]

Say 5-star hotel at S$500 per night, 4-star at S$300, 3-star at S$180-280. If a five-star hotel charges at S$150, then there is something wrong....perhaps SARS is back. Otherwise, the price will not be very far off.

By charging S$500 for a whole-day photography, with 8R prints, 360 4R prints, originals on DVDs... the photographer is also revealing where his level is. After all Mercedes Benz are never sold at the price of a Proton Wira.

On hotels, 5-star hotels do sometimes charge below 4-star/3-star prices. Filling a room at a lower profit is better than leaving it empty. Just like using the equipment to shoot for a lower profit is better than not doing anything... especially when the costs are sunk (into the equipment).