Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

[fattyboonboon]

Hi everyone, just to let everyone catch up on my friendly debate with wisp on a particular thread which I am not going to name: whether the word creampie truly exists and its very meaning is what they depict in the sex industry.

My stand is: the word does not exist, and since it does not exist, logically it cannot possibly mean anything.

As for wisp’s stand, I shall leave it to your own interpretation because it is not right for me to attempt to skew his argument in my favor.

To start, from where we left off….

Yeah well, the fact that it is used by these people marketing their wares means it doesn't exist? It's on wikipedia too (note: not for minors!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creampie_(sexual_act)

Please, don't try to sound profound or worm your way out of it. I am merely simply pointing out such a title can be very misleading (not that the OP intended it to be). And of course if possible we want to avoid embarrassment.

OP: Sorry for the OT: I hope you don't mind if I clarified things.

I am trying to be profound because I am trying to carry out an intelligent debate with valid support evidence? Then what am I suppose to call your argument? Lackluster?

Why so? You may ask. Here is the reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Creampie_(sexual_act)&action=edit

Quote in italics:
Editing Creampie (sexual act)
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Yes, anyone can alter and edit the information on wikipedia without even having to register an account with them. Infact, I can probably go into wikipedia and delete the whole entry and make you look like a fool. (at the risk of being banned from wikipedia of course! ;p ) But like I stated above, we are having an intelligent debate, and i am sure you will agree we should stick to a less underhanded approach.

Now everyone please ask yourself, can this source of information be reliable? Is it convincing? Especially when even your 10 yr old nephew can start typing gibberish into that entry?

And you are claiming that I am trying to worm my way out? How so? By providing valid support evidences from reputable websites? For those of you who may like to see them, here they are:

Oxford University Press: http://www.oup.com/oald-bin/web_getald7index1a.pl
It generated the next closest result, which is cramp. Creampie is definitely not in there.

www.dictionary.com: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=creampie&x=49&y=11
Nil. Nothing. Zilch.

Merriam-Webster: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/creampie
Zero.

Oh yeah, anyone please feel free to try and edit those websites? Wait, you mean you can’t? I wonder why.

Type into Google and read the results you say? I did, and oops, some misspelling in there!
Oh my, I accidentally typed in “jkdjfkd” and hey, look at what I found! 3 pages full of results. But since it is ok that we do not discern and double check what is correct, I learn a new word today! And it is jkdjfkd.
Same train of thoughts, but how absurd one is.

Wonder why you can’t find many resources to support your argument? Because it is a word coined by the sex industry to sell their products to us and that “word” pretty much stayed inside this niche network. They try to drill it into our head, wanting us to believe it means what they want us to believe it means, for the purpose of selling their products to us. But the word does not exist; neither does its artificial meaning.

To give you a different perspective, do you know that the word “sugar” is actually slang for the drug LSD?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sugar
And do you know that the word “weed” can also mean marijuana?
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/weed

http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/drug-abuse?utm_term=LSD&utm_medium=mw&utm_campaign=article


“What atrocity! There are actually threads in clubsnap that contain these words in their titles! My! What is going to happen to my children with clubsnap peddling drugs to them!”
So, being a responsible forum member, I drop a message in their thread.

Sorry to say..but do you know what sugar/weed actually means!?

*note: Look under drug slang*

Hmmm, sounds totally plausible. So is anyone going on a witchhunt for these threads? I mean, if people can get offended by words which are not registered in the dictionary even as a slang, informal or colloquial English, I am sure people are definitely offended by words that are actually recognized and registered in the dictionary as slang and informal English! Wait, no witchhunt? Damn, why the double-standard? Is it ok to peddle drugs but not ok to sell sex? Bless me! What has the world come to?

If ever I am face with the day that my little girl comes to me asking me what does the word “creampie” actually means, I am faced with 2 options:
a) I can tell her “Dear, the word does not exist, and reasonably there is no meaning to it”.
b) Or I can tell her “Dear, it means <<insert whatever sexual connotation the “word” is associated with here>> and it is so because the porn websites say so”.
I know I have the courage to pick option (a). Do you?

I am taught proper English by my English teacher holding a dictionary, not while he was surfing on porn websites. Whatever abomination of an English word some dirty old man - one greasy hand counting wads of money, the other randomly mixing and matching words in the dictionary – has coined in the sex industry, please do us all a favor and keep it there. Your decision to proliferate and defend a wrong notion only leads to a sad case of the blind leading the blind, with more and more being misguided.

However:

An analogy: It's like informing your friend privately his jeans were unzipped..

You did no such thing, and please do not claim you did. From your post count, I am going to assume that you know how forums function, and by posting your message in his thread, you are fully aware that everyone, even non-registered members, can see your post. I don’t think there is anything private to that. If you want to be real private, it is at the top right corner of your browser and it says Private Messages. The more appropriate analogy would be shouting across the hall to your friend that his jeans were unzipped. But for the benefit of the doubt, I am just going to assume you used the wrong analogy.

Thank you Wisp for your input. I am looking forward to hearing from you to correct any misconception that I may have, and of course, keeping it civilized at the same time.

And for my friend Reliance:

Notice the offending word has been removed.

Good.

Just because some of you are ignorant doesn't mean the word isn't offensive to others and/or the word doesn't exist.

Frankly, I planned to leave you out of this interesting debate. But since you posted something that arouses my interest, I am extending my sincere invitation for you to join in. Now I am going to assume that you are an adult, and that you are capable of formulating coherent thoughts, then may I ask: why are some of us ignorant?

Pretty much raising the same ambiguity as in the example you have raised:

Zoe Tay's "I swallow" advert is another example.

Poor Zoe, because she did not specify what exactly that she swallows, she is undersieged by everyone. To prevent you from suffering from the same predicament as poor Zoe, I am encouraging you to speak up. Who are these ignorant people? And why or how are they ignorant? Randomly raising a point without supporting your cause is as good as not saying anything.

Wait, are you referring to me? Oh my, ring the alarm everyone! This is clearly a case of the pot calling the kettle black!
I have laid out cold hard facts on the table top, and what do you have to show for it? Name calling.
How nice, I wonder who is the ignorant one now?

To conclude, why am I even doing this? Because I advocate freedom. You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. I don’t impose mine on you; you don’t impose yours on me. When you jump on the bandwagon to crucify others for your belief that you cannot even validate and lacking the commonsense to question yourself, I jump on my bandwagon to crucify you. If you learn tolerance, no one is jumping on any bandwagons. Someone has already kindly pointed out that “creampie” can potentially offend; by beating on a dead horse is purely an act of adding more fuel to the fire.

If all of you enjoy standing by watching others being strong armed into submitting to other people demands – demands based on false truth – through means of stirring up emotions among the general public, then go ahead and burn them on the stake. The only thing I can do is pray that the same fate does not befall upon you.

If you continue to find a need to perpetuate your idea of what creampie is, I can’t stop you, but don’t overstep your line.

 

[wobbly]

interesting.
but, in an online community, words - and phrases - and their meanings - get around fast, and perpetuate long after the joke is over.

cream pie, and all its meanings is one of them. it is entirely legitimately anyones position that they should deem whatever meanings they see fit to attach to a word or phrase. that is fine.

what should also be taken into account however, is that you are talking to a global community, and the large majority - of the english-speaking world - will know that 'creampie' now means something else. and if uttered in innocence, there will follow a quick and brutal flurry of jokes, references and corrections, which demonstrate as to why creampie must be used with care.. [as you've obviously recently found out]

porn is one of the driving models behind the the internet, and so, alot of what is associated with the pornography industry trickles down [lol] through to everyday 'net-speak.

hth

 

[fattyboonboon]

interesting.
but, in an online community, words - and phrases - and their meanings - get around fast, and perpetuate long after the joke is over.

cream pie, and all its meanings is one of them. it is entirely legitimately anyones position that they should deem whatever meanings they see fit to attach to a word or phrase. that is fine.

what should also be taken into account however, is that you are talking to a global community, and the large majority - of the english-speaking world - will know that 'creampie' now means something else. and if uttered in innocence, there will follow a quick and brutal flurry of jokes, references and corrections, which demonstrate as to why creampie must be used with care.. [as you've obviously recently found out]

porn is one of the driving models behind the the internet, and so, alot of what is associated with the pornography industry trickles down [lol] through to everyday 'net-speak.

hth

Dear Wobbly,
I agree with you. Everything spreads like wildfire on the internet, sadly, even the most wrong ideas and notions begin to gain credibility. Very much like urban legends that we read, which originates just as a scary story, became a "truth" due to the power of the internet until disproven by people through sheer hardwork. Why must we contribute to help fortify these false "truth"?

Jokes or whatever is fine. I am cool with that. However, i am not comfortable with the idea of seeing people insisting what they believe is the absolute truth, and that others must subscribe to their idea and must change to suit their demands. Like what i said towards the end, you can think whatever you want as long as you dont impose them on me, brainwashing me into thinking that it is an undisputable truth. A good example is the idea of religion and God. I am an atheist. Just because someone post a thread about God in the title does not give me the right to demand that they change it. A good portion of people in this world are atheist, and another good portion believe that God exist. So whose thinking is correct? No one can tell you for sure, but at least stay out of each other's way.

Haha, i may sound like i am dissing the sex industry, but in fact, they are actually at the forefront of internet technologies. They are constantly pushing the boundaries of these technologies due to their willingness to constantly embrace new technologies, particularly video compression and voice-over-internet services.

Thank you Wobbly for your kind inputs. It gives me insight as to what others may think and i respect your views. Please feel free to continue contributing your thoughts and ideas in this thread! See you around!

FBB

 

[Reliance]

Dear Boon,

Regret that I didn't read your essay due to lack of time.

May I ask what are your English related qualifications?

I studied English Language in my first year of university and got A2 for both 'O' level English Language and 'A' level General Paper.

I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

 

[Drudkh]

Essay writing competition? :bsmilie:

 

[student]

My stand is: the word does not exist, and since it does not exist, logically it cannot possibly mean anything.

Oxford University Press: Creampie is definitely not in there.

www.dictionary.com:Nil. Nothing. Zilch.

Merriam-Webster: Zero.

Oh yeah, anyone please feel free to try and edit those websites? Wait, you mean you can&#8217;t? I wonder why.

Type into Google and read the results you say? I did, and oops, some misspelling in there!

I know that there will be unlikely to be agreement. But since you wrote that you advocate freedom, and do like to carry on a discussion on a logical and intelligent basis, against my better judgement, I will pen my thoughts on this.

You wrote that you were brought up on proper English. To be fair, anyone with a reasonable "education" in proper schools will have some grounding in "proper English". Standards might differ, and mine is particularly atrocious, although I did win a literature prize quoting MacBeth while I was in my kampong school. Not that my English was good, but the standards then was really bad!

You assert that the word "creampie" does not exist. And you quoted several references to support your assertion.

I did not check your references, but will accept what you found to be true and accurate - that the word creampie does not exist in these references.

However.... please see my reply to your next quote

Wonder why you can&#8217;t find many resources to support your argument? Because it is a word coined by the sex industry to sell their products to us and that &#8220;word&#8221; pretty much stayed inside this niche network. They try to drill it into our head, wanting us to believe it means what they want us to believe it means, for the purpose of selling their products to us. But the word does not exist; neither does its artificial meaning.

Here you wrote that the word "creampie" was coined by the sex industry - with certain purposes in mind - to sell sex products. Money of course! And you concluded that the word does not exist, either in the formal language or in what you termed as "artificial" meaning - because the word was only coined by the sex industry - not by acceptable language authorities which you can recognise, respect, and acknowledge.

Here I will state my position on the existence of the word "creampie".

#1 Based on your findings, the word does not exist in the formal languages.

#2 But it does exist in another level of language usage - which formal English tries to ignore. But formal language cannot ignore it, because the word has taken on a life of its own, through channels which certain segments of society try to ostracise..

The fact is, this discussion will not have surfaced if a certain photoshoot organiser did not use it in the first place, which generated much discussions. Where did he get the word from? Where did he first hear it? I submit that the source might not be pornsites or magazines.

The fact is, that the word is used widely in the sex industry. Lots of people use it! An ENTIRE industry (a HUGE one at that!) uses it.

The fact is, you yourself acknowledged that it exists in the sex industry - that this was coined by the sex industry. If a coin was coined, does it not exist?

Therefore, the word "creampie" does exist - not in formal references, but in usage, and the meaning of this word is understood - albeit with rather derogatory connotations.

The fact that the word "creampie" does not exist in formal languages means just that. Nothing more. Nothing less. It does not exist in formal languages.

This does not mean it does not exist in usage - artificial or not.

Whether it exists in formal language or not is irrelevant. For the time being, the formal references do not have this word and they reject this word.. But the English language has a wonderful history of incorporating "new words" when they could finally not ignore their existence. This is one of the reasons why the English dictionary is expanding all the time - thanks to Dr Samuel Johnson.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Essay writing competition? :bsmilie:

hmm i only know cheesepie from HWZ... :bsmilie:

 

[Drudkh]

Aiyo! why the need for a debate? the theory is simple as 123. Once a word is polluted, be it new or existing, and its widely publicised, the meaning of the word is never the same again. Like a chinese saying, &#36339;&#36827;&#40644;&#27827;&#20063;&#27927;&#19981;&#28165;!

Stop it la, no point arguing at all. Worthless thread!

 

[Drudkh]

hmm i only know cheesepie from HWZ... :bsmilie:

I like cheesecakes more! :bsmilie:

 

[vince123123]

Just a short thought - just because a word cannot be found in the dictionary does not mean that it doesn't exist or that it cannot be understood by the relevant public. There are numerous words out there that are not found in the dictionary but which can be understood by the relevant public due to its use in the industry, or in general.

It is therefore a flaw to base your arguments on the fact that it is not an ordinary dictionary word .

 

[Drudkh]

Just for fun! ;p

 

[vince123123]

This argument is also flawed - words must be read in the context it is made.

IF someone says "I am going to the grocery store to buy sugar to make a cake" you won't think he is using the word sugar to mean LSD.

However, if he says "I'm going to the downtown back alleys to get me some weed to get high" - do you think he is going to get some unwanted grass and plants?

In this context, a beautiful model was portrayed - on a balance of probabilities, do you think it is going to be read as as a confectionery item filled with cream that you eat as a snack, or the meaning which others have attributed to it.

To give you a different perspective, do you know that the word “sugar” is actually slang for the drug LSD?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sugar
And do you know that the word “weed” can also mean marijuana?
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/weed

http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/drug-abuse?utm_term=LSD&utm_medium=mw&utm_campaign=article

 

[student]

For those who are really interested in the meaning of "creampie" as used by certain industry,
go to URBAN DICTIONARY, and type "creampie".


Please do not do this search if you have tender sensibilities.

And yes, it is important to take context into consideration when one uses and interprets words.

 

[Cheesecake]

I like cheesecakes more! :bsmilie:

:lovegrin: thank you thank you! :lovegrin:

 

[Drudkh]

:lovegrin: thank you thank you! :lovegrin:

My God! I should have checked your gender before posting that! :cry:

 

[Sion]

My stand is: the word does not exist, and since it does not exist, logically it cannot possibly mean anything.

Since the word does not exist I shall not waste my time contributing in this thread.

:bsmilie:

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

My God! I should have checked your gender before posting that! :cry:

After cheesecake, u can proceed to creamcheesepie...

 

[sequitur]

in all fairness


when he first coined "creampie" as with relation to a model, my initial assessment was "cream pie" which probably just means something like smooth and creamy and delicious, which when he used it on the model, all it simply meant to me was a some sort of description of the model's features or assets, whatever.


well it didn't occur to me, and for goodness sake i've never ever heard of it as a pornographic term until the post, that people were like oh "creampie is a pornographic term you know"..



let's just put it this way, in simple language:


not everybody watches porn, pervs.


and thanks for spreading the info on pornography here, i'm sure many minors would benefit from it.

or rather, i'm sure perhaps like while maybe 15% of the population knew creampie as a pornographic term, after your great "advertising" on flaming down just a particular term that you've somehow came across in one of your many pornographic escapades, you've successfully raised the awareness that creampie is a pornographic term such that now maybe even 50% of the community knows what creampie is pornographically, and i'm so darn sure that that stupid wikipedia link probably faced the highest number of clicks in the subsequent hours of your post, and of these number of clicks probably many of the clicks came from minors that were aged 18 and below, despite an obvious "minority" warning wher obviously nobody obeys since nobody really obeys the laws anyway, and if you're not happy with me putting the whole paragraph in one sentence i really can't help it.


so good luck have fun.

and good day.

 

[sequitur]

This argument is also flawed - words must be read in the context it is made.

IF someone says "I am going to the grocery store to buy sugar to make a cake" you won't think he is using the word sugar to mean LSD.

However, if he says "I'm going to the downtown back alleys to get me some weed to get high" - do you think he is going to get some unwanted grass and plants?

In this context, a beautiful model was portrayed - on a balance of probabilities, do you think it is going to be read as as a confectionery item filled with cream that you eat as a snack, or the meaning which others have attributed to it.

well if so you say, based on the wiki definition (yes i'm over 18 and over 21 in case anybody wants to shoot me down), he shouldn't be showing a model, he should be showing what a brazillian creampie is - as according to the wiki definition, which i suppose by any standards should look the same worldwide, unless you're dysfunctional (spelling?).

and so in context, he showed a model rather than the wiki definition. so adjust the context to what he means then... according to what you're saying.

 

[Castlesinthesky]

Whatever happened to the english word-Colloquial? Doesn't exist too?