Concert conditions tomorrow, film issues!


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Tweek

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#1
Like mpenza, I will be going for kelly chan's mini-concert tomorrow at Tong Heritage Bar. Since it is a concert setting and there will be a myriad of colour lights, I intend to shoot without flash, so that the native stage colours will be preserved. Lens used will be a 80-200 f2.8.

Then it comes to film buying. There are some 800 and 1600 films out there but when it comes to what's good I have absolutely no idea. In the end decided to get a roll of press 800 and a roll of press 1600, intending to push the 800 to 1600 and then compare the results of both. But CP doesn't sell press 1600 so I ended up with a roll of superia 1600, and of course a roll of press 800. Did I make any foolish move here?

And also, when I push press 800 to 1600, I just ask the lab to push one stop as what I do for slides right? I intend to develop at Konota, do they do negative pushing?

Sorry for the questions, first time shooting under such conditions so don't want to screw up. THanks in advance!
 

mervlam

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#2
Superia 1600 is quite grainy, but the images can be quite beautiful. :thumbsup:

Don't really know about Press 800 pushed one stop. :dunno:
 

scanner

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Only slide need to inform the lab for the push process.
Not required for negative.
U only need to develop as per normal for negative film. ;)
 

Red Dawn

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#5
Originally posted by scanner
Only slide need to inform the lab for the push process.
Not required for negative.
U only need to develop as per normal for negative film. ;)
huh? either u're smoking crack or u misunderstood his qn. i suspect the latter. :p

if u rate 800 film at 1600, when u develop, u need to tell the lab to push 1 stop. Unless u enjoy looking at underexposed pictures.......
 

scanner

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#7
Originally posted by Red Dawn

huh? either u're smoking crack or u misunderstood his qn. i suspect the latter. :p
if u rate 800 film at 1600, when u develop, u need to tell the lab to push 1 stop. Unless u enjoy looking at underexposed pictures.......
Oops sorry for the misleads. :embrass:
 

Red Dawn

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#8
Hi

Tweek - aren't u the one with a Nikon DSLR? :dunno:

anyway, a digital SLR will give you the best image quality and color in such concerts. Colours on DSLRs do not bleed as easily as film - this comes from my countless concert shooting experiences with the D30. Noise at high ISOs is also less distracting than really high speed film grain.

But all is not lost with film. Here there's only really one credible film choice (IMHO at least) - Fuji press 800. This film is super tolerant of overexposure (2-3 stops) and quite resistant to underexposure as well (1 stop). i used it for ALL high speed needs and it has never failed me - u can make 8 x 10s with it effortlessly, and even 10 x 15 shouldn't be a problem.

it also pushes very well to 1600. In fact, have a look at my pictures over the the Photojournalism forum - the 3 threads on Muslims - ALL of the pics you see there are Press 800 pushed 1 stop to 1600 - impressive isn't it?

Should you need ISO 3200, Press 800 can be pushed with acceptable results, but don't expect to make really bgi prints with those shots. But i would think the strong TV lights there will not make you feel the need for ISO 3200. ISO 1600 is the max you will need.

I've shot such large publicity concerts (with multiple TV stations covering) and even ISO 800 is usable there, assuming you have at least a f2.8 lens.

enjoy yourself at the concert :)
 

Tweek

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#11
nope rd, i don't have a Nikon DSLR. :D

I decided to use film for tmrw just for experience sake, I like to experiment with all sorts of alternatives. Glad that I bought a roll of press 800 since you testified its superiority. I hope the superia 1600 won't fail me too much. :D

thanks very much for your detailed reply!
 

Tweek

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#12
Originally posted by mpenza
Tweek, see you!
see u there too! I hope there won't be too many people. Guess what I just made that 1900 call just to try and I could still qualify as the first 100 people who answered correctly....I think it's crap, they don't really track it.
 

#13
Tweek owns a DSLR alright but he's a Canon fan so no Nikon for him. Right Tweek?? :)

I have some experience at concerts so can share.

For flashless ops at concerts, ASA400 is really good enough. I did handheld with my 80-200/2.8 with shutters ranging from 1/30 - 1/60.

I was a little kiasu at first and used my monopod religiously. I was the only one amongst the photogs who did so and really looked like an all-out idiot haha

Spoke to a press photog (I was the only non-press guy there) and he told me handheld at the above config is definitely possible. So I tried it and the results were good when I got my slides back.

Only prob of shooting concerts is the 'up-your-nose' effect. Cos we're always lower than the stage so tendency is for us to shoot up their noses. Have to watch for that...

Anyway why use negs and not slides?? Slides give you better contrast and better colours, no?
 

mervlam

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#14
Originally posted by scanner
Only slide need to inform the lab for the push process.
Not required for negative.
U only need to develop as per normal for negative film. ;)
nah..... u definately need to inform the lab that u pushed the film.
 

Tweek

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#15
thanks rayman! yah want to do prints just for tryout sake. I'm still in the infancy stage of everything, so just want to try out everything I can possibly do.

wah, handholding at 200mm with 1/60s, maybe I cannot make it leh. :D Anyway I also want to try out 800 and 1600 film so doesn't matter.

should I be using partial metering more often? I should partial meter on Kelly's face rather than to use evaluative metering right?

btw mervlam, thanks for your reply too!
 

mervlam

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#16
Originally posted by Tweek
thanks rayman! yah want to do prints just for tryout sake. I'm still in the infancy stage of everything, so just want to try out everything I can possibly do.

wah, handholding at 200mm with 1/60s, maybe I cannot make it leh. :D Anyway I also want to try out 800 and 1600 film so doesn't matter.

should I be using partial metering more often? I should partial meter on Kelly's face rather than to use evaluative metering right?

btw mervlam, thanks for your reply too!
have a nice time upclose and personal with Kelly (through ur telephoto of course):p
 

Red Dawn

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#17
Originally posted by rayman
Tweek owns a DSLR alright but he's a Canon fan so no Nikon for him.
oh really? great. DLSR will deliver better results. Especially Canon ones :rbounce: :devil:

but if tweek really wants to try film.....read on..


For flashless ops at concerts, ASA400 is really good enough. I did handheld with my 80-200/2.8 with shutters ranging from 1/30 - 1/60.

I was a little kiasu at first and used my monopod religiously. I was the only one amongst the photogs who did so and really looked like an all-out idiot haha

Spoke to a press photog (I was the only non-press guy there) and he told me handheld at the above config is definitely possible. So I tried it and the results were good when I got my slides back.
hmmm....then u guys must be shooting VERY different (static) concerts than I am.

Discounting the orchestras and bands that I shoot, those other ones that I take, there's lots of dancing and prancing around, song and dance etc. You can't expect a pop singer to stand still? ;)

it's not that the monopod will not help you steady yourself. you may also be able to handhold the 80-200 f2.8 at the 200 mm end at 1/30 (good for u...really impressive skills).

It's the fact that the moving singer / backup dancers / musicians will NOT let you freeze them in motion at 1/30 or 1/60 that is the REAL problem.

in fact at the most recent one i shot, the press photographers tried to shoot available light but later were all resorting to using flash (wimps! :devil: )

my advice for concerts - don't leave home without ISO 800, 1600 and have at least some 3200 films for contingency. You will never know when you will need them! esp if u're paid for the shoot....... it's worth the hassle for the peace of mind......


Only prob of shooting concerts is the 'up-your-nose' effect. Cos we're always lower than the stage so tendency is for us to shoot up their noses. Have to watch for that...
completely agree. This is the no 1 reason for non keepers. That's why if one has the chance, one should always try to shoot during full dress rehearsals too to get those shots that you will never get to take during the actual show. these shots will be completely usable if the rehearsals approximate the actual performance as close as possible....

climb onto a chair, climb onto the stage or something. do watever it takes. make full use of the play of dancing lights to create different effects.......


Anyway why use negs and not slides?? Slides give you better contrast and better colours, no?
yes, but not recommended for first timers I feel :) it also depends on the intended use of the photos. Negs retain a lot more detail in both highlights and shadows in high contrast situations which is more common in high energy concerts and may be easier to scan too, depending on stage conditions....
 

mervlam

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#20
Originally posted by denizenx
supe 1600 is grainy leh.. I rate at 1250 the colour is good but the edges are fuzzed...
Somehow, it give that kind of "soft effect". Not bad for a consumer film, I think.

Imagine using Kodak's consumer 1600 (if it exist), with the MAX 400 so grainy already. :devil:
 

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