Chinese gymnasts underage


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zj2000

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Mar 10, 2007
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#6
Whether the minimum age is 14 or 16 is irrelevant, chinese gymnasts still start training when they are 4.
 

Big Kahuna

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Dec 15, 2004
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#7
You kidding me....the kids are victims here too.
I was just being sarcastic....the complaint was not a coincident....I sense it came from bad losers :dunno:

To me drugs are even more dangerous and yet westerners had been using it for decades undetected until recently, who know how many out there are still uncaught :nono:

For a country that's 1.3 billion populated, China has enough talent instead of fielding an underage......they are 3rd world but they do keep the birth record, schooling record and medical record of their people, these are the basic information that are too easily available and I do not believe the China Olympic Org are ready to risk.:think:

Unless anyone can prove otherwise....we have to give them the benefit of doubt....they worked as hard as any other athletics and deserved as much respects and compliments for their victories :thumbsup:
 

sORe-EyEz

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Jun 28, 2005
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#8
You kidding me....the kids are victims here too.
i second that!

at their age when training commenced, i highly doubt they had the clarity of thought.

know wad, some here well above their age but when it come to choosing a camera we are as clueless. that bugs me... :sweat:
 

MichaelLee

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May 19, 2003
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#9
Jet Li started WuShu at age 5.
he was wushu champion at age 9.

tell him that he is also victim. more victim than the Chinese gymnasts who won gold medal.
:bsmilie: hahaa...i could not stop it..:bsmilie:
 

#10
Jet Li started WuShu at age 5.
he was wushu champion at age 9.

tell him that he is also victim. more victim than the Chinese gymnasts who won gold medal.
:bsmilie: hahaa...i could not stop it..:bsmilie:
You centered on quite possible the rare success story but how many failed "Jet Li" wannabes do you think there was and still are?

If you have cable tv and hopefully they will showcase one particular china documentary you will see the real story of people pushing their kids to Shaolin Temple at a very young age because the parents rationalise this was the best and quick way to make lots of money if they too can be kung fu film stars or find work in the HK film industry. You get to see how Jackie Chan relay how many get rejected and many just don;t have the potential to make it. Sure China may not have made enough opportunity for good jobs to go around but then again...they are not going about educating the people on taking the right steps too...plus there is that greed to dream big and make millions which is not properly align with common sense.

How do you think potential sport athletes for example are choosen? Yup at a very young age, the ones with the most potential are choosen...once that is done, it is the duty that child and his/her parent support the govt as it is an "honour" for the good of the country. YOu can tend say good bye to that child's usual "childhood" all they do from then on it train, train, train and more training. A very single minded purpose is what they are now breed for till they can't win anymore... so you wonder.. what happen then? I shudder to think what is left of those people once they pass their peak. How much education do you think they get when they were young? There is still alot of propaganda when you see those China made or China approved documentary but once the cameras are off...you think there will still be the smilling happy children faces?

The best way to describe that "mask" is by looking at the young cute animated littel girl who lip syn the singing by another less good looking girl. How do you think that little girl who had to conceal the fact she was the one who sung while another little girl mimic her on the center stage at the Olympic. What will that damage be to her self esteem? She might be too young now to know that but this situation will stick with her for sometime...as she grow older and she can start to figure things out...she will be hit hard and it might effect how she grows up. Yes all for good of the nation. Great concept huh?... well just hope it would not be someone close to someone we know.

Well come to think about it...potential selection by China and other countries has evolve into a fine art that they can put you in category of your skill. Division 1, 2, 3 etc. Just imagine we only managed to entice their 2nd division but not their first division and how did the medal tally so far with who got the Gold and who got the silver? Not just this year but all this time. Makes you wonder did they know something we did not because we sure never got to beat them for the gold in any year. Maybe that is why they never complain that we took them. Coincidence? Maybe lah I am only guessing.:sweat:
 

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hongsien

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Mar 11, 2002
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#11
People here fail to look at the other events where it is allowed to have younger contestants. The main reason was not to strain the young in pro events, but this rule was only set in a few years ago, in the past many young gymnast were competing and it was accepted.......

Even if the reason was not too strain the young, they are strained anyway in training, so why all the fuss?

HS
 

airforce1

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Aug 18, 2003
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#12
training at a young age gave them better chances at gold and more games to try. It will expose them to more competitive events and gain experience.
 

#13
People here fail to look at the other events where it is allowed to have younger contestants. The main reason was not to strain the young in pro events, but this rule was only set in a few years ago, in the past many young gymnast were competing and it was accepted.......

Even if the reason was not too strain the young, they are strained anyway in training, so why all the fuss?

HS
There is also a proposal to start Ping Pong in kindies in Singapore. :bsmilie:
 

MichaelLee

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May 19, 2003
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#14
You centered on quite possible the rare success story but how many failed "Jet Li" wannabes do you think there was and still are?

correctloh..
the underaged chinese gymnasts who won gold medal is not victim.
there are others who trained hard, started young but ended up win nothing..and then u only call them "victim".

if sportsman do not start training at young age..where do the success come from..?
Dun tell me import from china
also dun tell me Michael Phelps started swimming after he turn enough age..ie 18 and above.

all american swimmers also start their swimming young. why only underage chinese gymnasts are victim..?
 

blazer_workz

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May 8, 2006
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#15
Actually we are the real victims..not the sportsmans/sportswomen..

They do sports to pursue their honour/fame/title/career...
...but we watch sports and wasted only time. :bsmilie:
 

#16
correctloh..
the underaged chinese gymnasts who won gold medal is not victim.
there are others who trained hard, started young but ended up win nothing..and then u only call them "victim".

if sportsman do not start training at young age..where do the success come from..?
Dun tell me import from china
also dun tell me Michael Phelps started swimming after he turn enough age..ie 18 and above.

all american swimmers also start their swimming young. why only underage chinese gymnasts are victim..?
So what you saying is a 4 yr old already know how to shape his or her own future and have begun making plans in the sport they want to excel in and train themselve towards becoming world champion? A four year old?

Do you know the criteria for sport selection or athelete programs in China or in the USA? There are vast differences if you google. In the States parents could send you at young age to learn the sport because you like to learn it or it is a family interest. Sure there are some persky parent who force their kids like some soccer moms. But few and far between. With China it CAN be a matter of survival. That fact that if it has to be seen in that manner does that not in some way indicate the lack of options? Almost a do or die option. I will grant you "victim" might be too strong a word to use. But it come pretty close when you think how much more options are given to the people to choose. I have not even gone into the area where some of these kids are deprave of choices and a period to just be "young kids" doing young kids things and not shoulder the adult burden of carrying out a countrie's propaganda. Would you subject your kids to that? Another country that use to do that and was a power house till it went broke and was divided up. Guess which country is that? USSR. And without those programs of selection...look at their medal tally now.

Did you read how Phelps got started? Was there options to his life? Was he forced into something he did not like? He came from a family where his dad was into sports. So he got into sport activities as in a family thing along with his sisters about swimming. It was only at age 11 as his interest grew and he watched other famous US swimmers winning that HE decided he want to be like those swimmers he admire. It's a boyhood dream that was nutured and supported by both parents, school and state. But it had to be his choice don't you think? .. well that was something he took charge, decided and was what he wanted to work towards. Without swimming he still have an education and an altenative future. Could we really say the same with those in China? They may have embrace capitalism but the communistic doctrine and control are still apparent in one form or another.

I would say I have NO problem with them using younger then 16 yrs old to compete. But I am also certain there are good reasons why the Olympic community or the sporting world decided against it now in recent years. Some of them are related to the well being and earlier developement of a child to more then just harvesting them for their sporting potential. How about other mental development and as I mentioned a time for children to just be children?

Do you play sport and not just casually? Because if you do then yo uwould know that above all...in ANY sports there are always rules set up as the parameter whether they be for fairness or just limits set for how the game IS to be played. Now we know how over time some sport ruling do change and once accepted it is adopted internationally. So even if you put that notion of being unfair to the kids aside... you still have to accept that not following the rules for that given sport is still a BAD and dishonest thing. There are many political reason why the enquiry was just that...a friendly enquiry. This is a giant of an economy we are talking about and every countries around the world wants a piece of that China pie or are fearful of them...would you dare to really launch an official investigation against them? Even if US who should have the most to gain by protesting and investigaing...do you think they would? Guess who owes China the most money of any given countries today?

So morale issue or not....does there seem to be some form of victimising here at play in one form or another. As I said..maybe "victim" is too strong a word and yes we should give them the benefit of a doubt but we should take note that there is always two sides to a coin. China has been caught more then a few times for athelets using steroids too....less we forgot about that. I actually, to be honest, suspected their so called star Hurdle runner to have done so too. If he took the steroid too close to the actual event and if any random testing took place after any heat, if found out , could not only be out of the race but will be shamed since there was a lot of media built about him to win the medal again.

The trick with steriod use is to hide it chemically or by laying off it for a period leading up so no trace is found. So it is a cat and mouse game with them finding new ways to hide the signs and official find new ways to detect them. If for some reason they found still traces in him and the gamble is too great he might get caught... best thing is to quit then to run the race by citing injury. I am only speculating lah :sweat: ...just random rant from an old fool on the side line... but after looking at what happen with Marion Jones and how long she managed to fool everyone for so long and even fought and won law suits from her detractors...anything is more then possible.

Sign...the way sports is heading nowadays. Sportmanship is extinct.


Not too long back, I read some where there was a comment that we should have two Olympics..the normal one and the steriod version heheheheh
 

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theRBK

Senior Member
May 16, 2005
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#17
if sportsman do not start training at young age..where do the success come from..?
Dun tell me import from china
also dun tell me Michael Phelps started swimming after he turn enough age..ie 18 and above.

all american swimmers also start their swimming young. why only underage chinese gymnasts are victim..?
I don't believe swimming involves as much stress on the joints as gymnastics... that's why there are age limits in gymnastics and not swimming... diff sports stress diff areas of body...

in any case, the bottom line is that there are rules, regardless of whether they are right or wrong or fair or unfair, they have to be obeyed by everyone, and if someone breaks the rules or cheats, they have to face the consequences

oh, and anyone remember the case in the 2007 women's football world cup, where the team from Denmark caught people spying on them from a variety of means, including filming through a mirror... and FIFA and IOC both refuse to step in... :rolleyes:
 

MichaelLee

Senior Member
May 19, 2003
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#18
i am dumb..pls help me to understand.
Is there any official olympic underage or overage in olympics event.
so what make u think 16 or underage..? and why not the 40 is overage..?

and i still dun understand wat is the real victim here.

the one starts from young and train hard and won gold medal..?
or the one starts from young and train hard but did not win gold medal..?
or only China underage who won gold medal is underage..but not other nations ??
 

sORe-EyEz

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Jun 28, 2005
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#19
whether victim or not depends on their socio-economic situation. for the rural poor in some countries, being hailed as a national hero is seen as the only way out of poverty. the peers in other countries who have the luxury of choice can exercise their options.

therefore those who have very little choice out of poverty is seen as being victim to a system. & in that limited choice is an extremely hard "fight" to shine.
 

mattlock

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Feb 28, 2004
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#20
Younger gymnasts have a certain advantage based on their body not maturing fully yet compared to girls who have already bloomed in puberty and become more womanly...not so good for gymnastics.

Not to be sour but what's the big deal with following the rules of a competition and competing at age 16 instead of FORGING documents just to get an advantage?
 

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