Can You Trust Your Professional Photographer?


JasonB

Deregistered
Jun 2, 2009
871
9
0
#2
Great article.

Though reader should also note that attending photography seminars and classes is should be treated as a good thing to improve one's skills though it could be that the 'proposal case photographer' had signed up an advanced class beyond her level that she simply could not follow relevantly enough.

World wide we have countless photographer wannabes, we call them negative names around, wannabe is the first word, guy/girl with cams, mums with cams, clubsnap hobbyists.

The problem is not with a guy with cam, a mum, or a clubsnap amateurs on a personal level, even a wannabe is a perfectly fine thing, we all want to be somewhere or someone, but the problem is actually treating a profession lightly, treating it like a hobby plaything, thinking low prices justify inexperience, thinking low prices justify lower quality of work

The end results often are again, subpar work, disappointed clients (despite how low they paid), forming bad impression of the profession, and distrust against photographers. We see it prominently here in weddings, even as wedding couples already hired professionals, they still ask their hobby friends to be 'backup photographer, 2nd photographer, photographer's supervisor' which is an open display of distrust, destroying rapport, and these incompetent 'backups' create even more hindrance to the jobs, making it even harder, and the whole thing just dive south.

Said it umpteen times before, saying it yet again:

There is no halfways, either do it like the pro of pros, or don't do it at all. Charging low to get clients often invites trouble for everyone, you, clients, the whole industry.

There are ways to do it, only if one stops crying and complaining about 'no portfolio, no clients', and starts polishing up your skills both photographically and business-ly, grow some guts and responsibility to charge rightly and deliver rightly, then can one get 'IN', instead of standing behind the glass door like a window shopper.
 

lancey

Deregistered
May 8, 2008
1,147
0
0
40
#3
Charging low to get clients often invites trouble for everyone, you, clients, the whole industry.

.
Really? Do you have facts/stats to back that statement? Or it's what you think?
Charging low=screwing up for everybody in this industry??


maybe raise the tax, fuel price, taxi fares, entrance fees, drop the health subsidies, scrap medisave supplements, raise the overseas investment budget, raise hdb base price and COE price? Im sure it'll lead to a more efficient society.
 

Last edited:

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
4,669
15
38
www.tomato.sg
#4
I blame it on ethics that some may have in offering their service. If you are not ready, you are not ready.

Sure we generally need to start from somewhere but that somewhere should be your personal work.

Over the past 4.5 years I have seen many start and quit photography. It isn't easy...

But be honest with yourself before u jump on any paid shoot...


Regards,

Hart
 

sjackal

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2008
4,490
10
38
#5
Really? Do you have facts/stats to back that statement? Or it's what you think?
Charging low=screwing up for everybody in this industry??


maybe raise the tax, fuel price, taxi fares, entrance fees, drop the health subsidies, scrap medisave supplements, raise the overseas investment budget, raise hdb base price and COE price? Im sure it'll lead to a more efficient society.
I think it is just his opinion.

On the other hand maybe you have facts and stats to show that charging low will not harm the industry or even better it?
 

lancey

Deregistered
May 8, 2008
1,147
0
0
40
#6
I think it is just his opinion.

On the other hand maybe you have facts and stats to show that charging low will not harm the industry or even better it?
I don't have a problem with charging high or low which i feel is a personal choice. I have a problem with people telling others to charge high or charge low BECAUSE they think it will affect the industry or any party in anyway. i.e telling others how to run their business, over the net. I don't have to prove anything to you because Im not the one telling others to charge low or charge high...or the one to think that charging low or high has any definite effect on anybody. Let the market be free, demand and supply, cost and effect. Simple economics.

Most likely just his opinion.
 

Last edited:

lancey

Deregistered
May 8, 2008
1,147
0
0
40
#7
If you are not ready, you are not ready.
really? Who determines if one is ready or not? Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and that includes when to go in and when to come out...and how to handle screwups. I don't think anyone, including me ,is an arbiter to such decisions/actions.
Unless of course the industry is regulated/licensed/sanctioned. Probably in the future.
But as of now, seems like anyone can screwup and anyone can score big, no matter who you are or how experienced you think you are.

Anyone with a cam is legally allowed to practice professional photography.
 

Last edited:

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
4,669
15
38
www.tomato.sg
#8
really? Who determines if one is ready or not? Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and that includes when to go in and when to come out...and how to handle screwups. I don't think anyone, including me ,is an arbiter to such decisions/actions.
Unless of course the industry is regulated/licensed/sanctioned. Probably in the future.
But as of now, seems like anyone can screwup and anyone can score big, no matter who you are or how experienced you think you are.

Anyone with a cam is legally allowed to practice professional photography.
It's themselves who determine if they are ready or not.

If u read the earlier part, I consider the ethics for people who is not ready and offer their service and acting like a pro and screw up...

You don't need a guideline to know your own capability. If u are unsure or even have doubt on yourself, chances are you are not ready. I thought that is pretty simple to understand, no?

Regards,

Hart
 

Last edited:

sjackal

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2008
4,490
10
38
#9
I don't have a problem with charging high or low which i feel is a personal choice. I have a problem with people telling others to charge high or charge low BECAUSE they think it will affect the industry or any party in anyway. i.e telling others how to run their business, over the net. I don't have to prove anything to you because Im not the one telling others to charge low or charge high...or the one to think that charging low or high has any definite effect on anybody. Let the market be free, demand and supply, cost and effect. Simple economics.

Most likely just his opinion.
That is your opinion, I respect that.

When people post their opinion, you want them to prove with facts and stats.

But when you post your opinion, you then said you no need to prove anything.

No offense, but I wonder do you have anything else to contribute other than advising people not to listen to business advises on clubsnap?

Again, no ill intent. Just observations from the recent threads.
 

ejunlow

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2006
2,518
2
38
36
Stevens Road
www.ejunlow.com
#10
A public forum will always have different views... And different opinions... It's just the way of life and of clubsnap.

Just reading a few threads will tell me who have what it takes to be true to himself (successful or not) and who just lack the attitude for greatness.

Humility is the start of any great being... Of course, all these aren't great words of wisdom, just another member's opinion. :)

On the topic of can you trust your photographer, I learnt something in all these time... That for those things that mattered in your life, you will take even more effort to see that they turn out well... And when they don't, it might be someone else's fault, but that just another day in life. Move on after feeling disappointed or sad or hurt.. But do move on.

The couple that got cheated... Will remember the lost images... But their marriage wont be in ruins because of one poorly skilled photographer.

What really matters to you? That's worth defending.

1 cent worth...

Ejun
 

Last edited:

lancey

Deregistered
May 8, 2008
1,147
0
0
40
#11
That is your opinion, I respect that.

When people post their opinion, you want them to prove with facts and stats.

But when you post your opinion, you then said you no need to prove anything.

No offense, but I wonder do you have anything else to contribute other than advising people not to listen to business advises on clubsnap?

Again, no ill intent. Just observations from the recent threads.
I did not state that charging low will have any impact on the industry, so what do I need to prove? Otoh, he stated the opposite to the affirmative, and since he cant back up that fact, it is an empty declaration, albeit his opinion. If I dont believe in god, I dont need to prove it doesnt exist I think.
 

Last edited:

yqt

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2004
1,750
0
0
East of Singapore
#12
let's get back to the topic at hand and not degress.

Can you trust your professional photographer? The simple answer should be "Yes" but as the entry level is getting lower and lower (cheaper gears, lower expection, PS, etc) it is getting hard to tell who are the Pros and who are the "pros". A look at the photographer's portfolio is usually enough to tell them apart but this is not the case anymore, I've known photographers who hire professional DIs to do up their portfolio, changing crap shots into something with a professional look. Same with Portfolio shooters whose portfolio only consist of shoots where the model, set up/concept and even pose were arrange by someone else, no input from the photographer except to push the shutter.
 

lancey

Deregistered
May 8, 2008
1,147
0
0
40
#13
let's get back to the topic at hand and not degress.

Can you trust your professional photographer? The simple answer should be "Yes" but as the entry level is getting lower and lower (cheaper gears, lower expection, PS, etc) it is getting hard to tell who are the Pros and who are the "pros". A look at the photographer's portfolio is usually enough to tell them apart but this is not the case anymore, I've known photographers who hire professional DIs to do up their portfolio, changing crap shots into something with a professional look. Same with Portfolio shooters whose portfolio only consist of shoots where the model, set up/concept and even pose were arrange by someone else, no input from the photographer except to push the shutter.
and most times,the price tag has little to do with anything.
 

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
4,669
15
38
www.tomato.sg
#14
let's get back to the topic at hand and not degress.

Can you trust your professional photographer? The simple answer should be "Yes" but as the entry level is getting lower and lower (cheaper gears, lower expection, PS, etc) it is getting hard to tell who are the Pros and who are the "pros". A look at the photographer's portfolio is usually enough to tell them apart but this is not the case anymore, I've known photographers who hire professional DIs to do up their portfolio, changing crap shots into something with a professional look. Same with Portfolio shooters whose portfolio only consist of shoots where the model, set up/concept and even pose were arrange by someone else, no input from the photographer except to push the shutter.
This is what I think the personal ethics comes in.

If you want to hire professional retoucher to make the crap to a wonderful shot, its fine. As long as when you offer your service, people are getting what they see. Its fair enough.

Consumer don't really understand how to differentiate between shot that the photographer create and manage every part of it and shot that photographer receive from so call "portfolio workshop".

As a photographer, who doesn't want to stand out, but at what cost? you can get the job and fail to delivery.. That destroy the reputation.

Regards,

Hart
 

Last edited:

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
4,669
15
38
www.tomato.sg
#15
and most times,the price tag has little to do with anything.
You are right...

Price tag is only a price that one photographer want to charge.

I believe, the better you are and the more establish you are, the higher the charge is. But how good the work is purely subjective. Its not logical to charge more and not getting any business.


Regards,

Hart
 

etegration

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2003
2,364
3
38
http://360.itcow.com
360.itcow.com
#16
so what to do? there are some studios that formed up into some "body" or organisation which i think is good but still lacking. Something like a CEA (for property agents) for photographers will be best but i guess, there isn't enough complains yet!
 

yqt

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2004
1,750
0
0
East of Singapore
#17
I blame it on ethics that some may have in offering their service. If you are not ready, you are not ready.

Sure we generally need to start from somewhere but that somewhere should be your personal work.

Over the past 4.5 years I have seen many start and quit photography. It isn't easy...

But be honest with yourself before u jump on any paid shoot...


Regards,

Hart
Agreed on this.

Problem is that those who are not ready either do not know it or try to mitigate it with low price thinking "hey, so cheap what do you expect?" and when thing screw up on a paid shoot, the photographer gets into trouble as he/she can't deliver, the client gets into trouble as they don't get what they want/expect and the industry suffers as clients thinks that professional photography is a rip off. Actual professional photographer are left to pick up the picese to change the wrong mindset of the client, something which was not their doing in the first place.
 

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
4,669
15
38
www.tomato.sg
#18
Agreed on this.

Problem is that those who are not ready either do not know it or try to mitigate it with low price thinking "hey, so cheap what do you expect?" and when thing screw up on a paid shoot, the photographer gets into trouble as he/she can't deliver, the client gets into trouble as they don't get what they want/expect and the industry suffers as clients thinks that professional photography is a rip off. Actual professional photographer are left to pick up the picese to change the wrong mindset of the client, something which was not their doing in the first place.
Yes or no really. Clients who get rip of once will be very smart next. So if you happen to have them as clients, and serve them well and deliver your promise, it is easy to have them to come back for more. I have a lot of clients like that.

Hart
 

yqt

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2004
1,750
0
0
East of Singapore
#20
Yes or no really. Clients who get rip of once will be very smart next. So if you happen to have them as clients, and serve them well and deliver your promise, it is easy to have them to come back for more. I have a lot of clients like that.

Hart
Agreed that existing clients are not a problem, they know what to expect from me at my price.

It is the new clients, usually direct clients who only do shoots a few times a year and are not in the market who have this misconception that the higher price charged by professional are a rip off. Photographers have to work harder to convince them that they are better and can be trusted over the last photographer who did not deliver up to expection but had a better port. Now I shoot freelance servicing only a few long standing clients with new ones only through word of mouth as I have a day job.
 

Top Bottom