Banding issue with ND filters

[wildcat]

Started this thread for a discussion on banding issues at the bottom of landscape photos, when using ND filters such as ND110 or Hoya ND400, after night86mare pointed out on the issue. Trying to pinpoint what could be the cause, and what may be done.

Enclosed some sample pictures for discussion:

Pic1 - ND110, banding issue quite clearly seen at the bottom 20% of this photo

ISO: 200
Exposure: 182.9 sec
Aperture: 9.0
Time: 6:56am

Pic2 - ND110, less banding when exposed more

ISO: 200
Exposure: 241.6 sec
Aperture: 11.0
Time: 7:03am

Pic3 - ND110, problem also happens with bigger apertures

ISO: 200
Exposure: 68.8 sec
Aperture: 7.1
Time: 7:04am

Pic4 - An earlier pic

ISO: 200
Exposure: 176.1 sec
Aperture: 5.6
Time: 6:48am

Pic5 - without filters; the key could be because of lesser amount of light available at the bottom part of the photo even without filter

ISO: 200
Exposure: 1/80 sec
Aperture: 7.1
Time: 7:06am

 

[Kit]

I thought it was ok because its not those nasty hard-edged banding like what a faulty shutter will do.

 

[night86mare]

hrm, this is not what i'm referring to

banding is probably just resizing problems.

i had a thread about it once, basically there is an entire strip underexposed, and it is very clearly delineated, not like here.

 

[night86mare]

i think your idea of banding is actually just vignetting.

examples of what i'm tlaking about (closer to what nnb is getting)

(bottom)

top right - which is also bottom of sensor when horizontal

 

[wildcat]

Ahhh.. :angel: *enlightened*

Okay, sorry, musunderstand. Yeah, I can see one hard band there of different light exposure. Lucky my Nikon camera got no banding! *wipes sweat* will let you know if I kena and maybe will do some test with NNB.

Either that or my bottom part is always so black that I have to snip it off anyway

 

[aloyyolaaloy]

Ahhh.. :angel: *enlightened*

Okay, sorry, musunderstand. Yeah, I can see one hard band there of different light exposure. Lucky my Nikon camera got no banding! *wipes sweat* will let you know if I kena and maybe will do some test with NNB.

Either that or my bottom part is always so black that I have to snip it off anyway

you can use a center filter to reduce the "blackness"

 

[wildcat]

you can use a center filter to reduce the "blackness"

Oh. What's a center filter? Is it like a GND or something?

 

[Numnumball]

hrm, this is not what i'm referring to

banding is probably just resizing problems.

i had a thread about it once, basically there is an entire strip underexposed, and it is very clearly delineated, not like here.

Agreed with Naymeh here.. Bro Bernard. those u posted at the start of this thread are merely vigentting/or allowing too much shadows becos of underexposing ue to long exposures etc etc.. What Me/Kit/Naymeh had encountered is clearly delineated and that off center..

 

[wildcat]

Agreed with Naymeh here.. Bro Bernard. those u posted at the start of this thread are merely vigentting/or allowing too much shadows becos of underexposing ue to long exposures etc etc.. What Me/Kit/Naymeh had encountered is clearly delineated and that off center..

Yay.. I only kena cool vignetting issues :vhappy::cheergal::blah:

 

[night86mare]

Agreed with Naymeh here.. Bro Bernard. those u posted at the start of this thread are merely vigentting/or allowing too much shadows becos of underexposing ue to long exposures etc etc.. What Me/Kit/Naymeh had encountered is clearly delineated and that off center..

yeah, i've gotten it quite a lot.. it really only seems to appear with water present from my memory. i don't recall doing any city scapes and having that problem!

 

[2evans]

yeah, i've gotten it quite a lot.. it really only seems to appear with water present from my memory. i don't recall doing any city scapes and having that problem!

hmm, if it's water, would it the movement of the water and the reflections off of it play a part?

 

[night86mare]

hmm, if it's water, would it the movement of the water and the reflections off of it play a part?

that is my general postulation.

 

[hjbyeo]

that is my general postulation.

I actually thought it was my K-7 issue, so it also happens to your K20D when you use it with the ND110? *ALAMAK*

 

[night86mare]

I actually thought it was my K-7 issue, so it also happens to your K20D when you use it with the ND110? *ALAMAK*

it has happened with k20d with nd400 also, before i lost it somewhere in dorset.

i know yapster also has experienced it once, so that includes nikon as well, nnb is also nikon.

don't think it's a camera issue.

i want to find out the reason though, so that with the understanding of how it arises, can take steps to avoid or correct it when it appears.

 

[Numnumball]

it has happened with k20d with nd400 also, before i lost it somewhere in dorset.

i know yapster also has experienced it once, so that includes nikon as well, nnb is also nikon.

don't think it's a camera issue.

i want to find out the reason though, so that with the understanding of how it arises, can take steps to avoid or correct it when it appears.

Doubt is system specific, its more of a light leaks issue..

Cant help thinking It has to do with the strength of the filter, and these light leaks will affect the light that is coming into the filter, and the surrounding lighting condition that might worsen it. Like wavelengths not fit in into the sensor and escape throught he leaks and continue to propagate, thus the banding.. Well, my guess.. :dunno:

 

[night86mare]

Doubt is system specific, its more of a light leaks issue..

Cant help thinking It has to do with the strength of the filter, and these light leaks will affect the light that is coming into the filter, and the surrounding lighting condition that might worsen it. Like wavelengths not fit in into the sensor and escape throught he leaks and continue to propagate, thus the banding.. Well, my guess.. :dunno:

let me check with hoya and B+W when i have the time - i mean, they manufacture the filters, i'm sure they would have realised these problems..

 

[Numnumball]

let me check with hoya and B+W when i have the time - i mean, they manufacture the filters, i'm sure they would have realised these problems..

:thumbsup: Think it will benefit us users by getting to the root of the problem...

 

[dleugene]

:thumbsup: Think it will benefit us users by getting to the root of the problem...

This is an extract from B+W Cataloge.

"B+W Neutral Density Filter ¡06
This B+W Neutral Density Filter reduces the light by six f-stops. With this filter and without changing the f-stop, a shutter speed of ¡/60 s is changed to a full second, thus requiring the use of a tripod. Flowing water is rendered as flowing in the photo, and people moving in streets are dissolved in unsharpness or become invisible. Because of its higher transmission in the red beyond 660 nm, this filter brings a slightly warm tone to color photographs. If this effect is undesirable,
a B+W UV-/IR-Blocking Filter 486 in front of the neutral density filter (not behind it!) remedies that situation. The filter factor is 64x."

I am not sure does this address to the issue that you guy are experiencing? But it seems like it happens only on certain lighting condition.

Hope this bring so light to the problem.:dunno:

 

[night86mare]

no, that has to do with COLOR SHIFTS, not banding.

 

[night86mare]

:thumbsup: Think it will benefit us users by getting to the root of the problem...

i experimented a lot today, i have found the cause of the problem

i think it is because of what you say, the light leakage from viewfinder.

nothing done, just resized out of camera,
iso 100, f/22, 60 seconds

versus

also resized out of camera,
iso 100, f/22, 90 seconds

of course obviously lighting conditions have changed but the main difference was that the second photo had my sweater over the camera.............. :sweat:

like so:

you bet i got many weird stares from the people around canary wharf (that's london's cbd)

but every photo with the sweater over the camera.. did not have banding.

was painful though, wearing just a t-shirt in 12 degrees and strong wind. now to find a viewfinder cover of sorts.