Bad Photography


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keoki

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Jun 29, 2005
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A certain photographer (a member of clubsnap also) was engaged to take photographs for an event by the company. Just viewed the photos from the CD, and although I didn't like his photography style (no focal point at all), but it is up to individuals (some people may like it). It turned out that there are plenty of precious moments that were not captured and important people were out of the picture!! Imagine a group of 7 VIPs posing for the photo became only 6 VIPs!

As photographers (amatuers and pro), is this acceptable at all? As paying client, will you accept the work? My fellow colleague called the photographer after viewing, he apologised and say he will accept only half payment. The key question here isn't really about the money, events can never repeat themselves and precious moments can never be re-enacted.

For us, we can waive the entire photography fees from the client, but what will the client think? We use this photographer for the first time because a fellow CSer have a prior engagement, and although he was not the cheapest, we viewed his portfolio and thought, not bad, can use him.

Lesson learnt: Portfolio can be VERY deceiving, showcasing 1 good one and hiding the bad ones is reality.

Would like to hear CSers' opinions.
 

dragos

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#2
personally, when i cover events, i very kiasu, certain shoots which i know are important shoots, i tend to shoot a few...engaging the audience as i shoot, if possible and take up to even 6 shots for the same angle.

but 7 VIPs becoming 6 VIPs is a no no...
 

Pablo

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Sep 1, 2004
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#3
No, I don't think it is acceptable at all.

I think he should be made to hand in his camera, to ME !
 

unseen

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Dec 14, 2004
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#4
Wow.. you even paid him 1/2 the sum?

Having organised events, missing out even 1 VIP is a big no no.. personally I'd feel that the event's not considered covered at all. If I'm holding an event with 7 VIPs, I need 7 VIPs to show up in the photo. If 1 of them doesn't appear at all, then IT'S NOT MY EVENT!

Imagine the reactions of others if I as an event organiser were to show the photos to others. I'd be criticised to no end. 1) by others for overstating the no. of VIPs. 2) by the VIP office for leaving him out. Why would that VIP ever want to grace my events again? Not to mention, the VIP's most probably gonna be offended by the event organiser. What if no one wants me as an event organiser again?

Though you've gotten photos, but if you think about it you can't show it to anyone at all. Sooner or later everyone's gonna question who graced the events. You can't even use the photos for suitable press release.

Woe be on to you.

Edit: Given the crap you're already in, I'd pay the photographer basic travelling allowance, waive the entire photography fees for the client, and provide SOME event coverage photos as a bonus to appease the client.

You ought to publicise the photographer's name somewhere too. If CS-ers can publish shop names here and comment about them, you should also be able to publish bad service to warn those looking for photographers. However, should have some sort of proof to back up your claims if you intend to do so.

Such irresponsibility ought to be made known to everyone. Big event, small event, all should be treated alike if a photographer's paid for it.
 

Jan 20, 2005
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#5
Just a question... was the photographer briefed before the event?

It is the responsibility to the hirer to brief the photographer who the VIPs are and what the crucial moments are (based on the program for the day).

VIPs to a particular company or organisation may not be easily identifyable.

Example: CEO of Geshundit tissue manufacturer V.S. CEO of Micorsoft. :bsmilie:
just my fifty bucks worth ;)
 

slaam

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Aug 29, 2004
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#6
A certain photographer (a member of clubsnap also) was engaged to take photographs for an event by the company. Just viewed the photos from the CD, and although I didn't like his photography style (no focal point at all), but it is up to individuals (some people may like it). It turned out that there are plenty of precious moments that were not captured and important people were out of the picture!! Imagine a group of 7 VIPs posing for the photo became only 6 VIPs!

well this is definitely not up to paying standard. but then again were the terms stated clearly that you wanted these precious shots? becos if you didn't and even though it can be argued that its the minimum standard for stuff that an idiot would know.. but sometimes everyone's min standards differ

As photographers (amatuers and pro), is this acceptable at all? As paying client, will you accept the work? My fellow colleague called the photographer after viewing, he apologised and say he will accept only half payment. The key question here isn't really about the money, events can never repeat themselves and precious moments can never be re-enacted.

very true.. but that's the risk when you hire an amateur i guess... which is why i think they wont spoil the market too much cos the quality shows

For us, we can waive the entire photography fees from the client, but what will the client think? We use this photographer for the first time because a fellow CSer have a prior engagement, and although he was not the cheapest, we viewed his portfolio and thought, not bad, can use him.

Lesson learnt: Portfolio can be VERY deceiving, showcasing 1 good one and hiding the bad ones is reality.

haha well you forget that sometimes there are dishonest ppl who use other's pics as own portfolio but then again.. there's nothing wrong with not showing the bad photos. any goood photographer will do the same... the bad photographer is the one who doesn't know he/she has a lousy shot another good way to sift the good ones is to ask the number of prior shoots he has done commercially before.

Would like to hear CSers' opinions.

I guess its lesson learnt for all CSer's here.. jus my two cents ... dun get agitated...
 

Pablo

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Sep 1, 2004
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#7
fiftybucks said:
Just a question... was the photographer briefed before the event?

It is the responsibility to the hirer to brief the photographer who the VIPs are and what the crucial moments are (based on the program for the day).

VIPs to a particular company or organisation may not be easily identifyable.

Example: CEO of Geshundit tissue manufacturer V.S. CEO of Micorsoft. :bsmilie:
just my fifty bucks worth ;)
I may not agree here.

I would think that it is the responsibility of the photographer to find out what he is doing.

In fact he should find out exactly what is required.

Also the photog should have the sense to know/see/feel who is important.

The photographer should also snap everyone; even the waiters....why ?
Because a waiter or drink girl might just want a momento for their resume ?

There is no excuse.

Just my $100 worth
 

Pablo

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Sep 1, 2004
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#8
Ahhh.....
The more I think about it, the more I don't like it.

What would you feel if you got married and the wedding photographer missed out one of your family in the photo's,
or your brides family ?

Would you pay him anything.

I wouldn't ! I would demand what originals he/she had and tell them to find another job.

Totally UN-professional.
 

espn

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Dec 20, 2002
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#9
Did you brief him/her beforehand the shoot what types of images you expect from him?
 

sk.images

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#12
Unless the agreement between you and the photographer explicitly stated the outcomes you expected and the conditions of payment then you owe the photographer the full amount. It is unfortunate and I'm sure embarrasing, but to withold payment because you're not happy with the shots is unacceptable, unless prior arrangment was made. Unfortunately not all business transactions work out exactly as you would like or as they should, but the ethics should not change depending on the circumstances.

The way I would deal with this is cop it sweat and either not charge the client or better still, offer them the next shot for free or at a discount (this in effect will keep you in their books), then I would ensure that I never used this photographer again.
 

Pablo

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#13
espn said:
Did you brief him/her beforehand the shoot what types of images you expect from him?
If the photographer was not briefed before hand, should he not have asked at some point ?

Or is he to not ask and think it is just happy snap time.
 

dragos

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#14
espn said:
Then if nobody asked, it's everybody's fault?
isn't it like SOP to ask for an admin prog or at least a run down of the whole day event before the shoot?

it is like asking the couple what sort of wedding photos are they looking for...journalistic style, b&w, etc...
 

espn

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#15
Pablo said:
If the photographer was not briefed before hand, should he not have asked at some point ?

Or is he to not ask and think it is just happy snap time.
So it's the photographer's fault?
 

iceberg

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Nov 20, 2002
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#16
i think it's onus on both parties to find/give details...

and yes, portfolios can be deceiving.. or rather.. doesn't tell the whole story. still, what would be a better way of representing a photographer?
 

espn

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#17
dragos said:
isn't it like SOP to ask for an admin prog or at least a run down of the whole day event before the shoot?

it is like asking the couple what sort of wedding photos are they looking for...journalistic style, b&w, etc...
Then it might be the photographer's not well experienced enough. The employer should have briefed the photographer before the shoot and not expect the photographer to know what to shoot.

As for weddings I see it differently, you would hire one only if you like his style, his works and not what you want him to shoot. In this case any wedding photographer will shoot according to his style and doesn't need to be briefed apart from the programme timing.
 

Pablo

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#19
espn said:
So it's the photographer's fault?
Yes, it is the photographers fault.

There are many reasons.

Apart from the wedding situation I mentioned, I will put it in another context.

Lets say you are a body guard. You were told that there is a party and there are VIP's that need to be looked after.

What would you ask ?
 

espn

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#20
Pablo said:
Yes, it is the photographers fault.

There are many reasons.

Apart from the wedding situation I mentioned, I will put it in another context.

Lets say you are a body guard. You were told that there is a party and there are VIP's that need to be looked after.

What would you ask ?
Wah so it's the photographer's fault? The employer not at fault?

Those who attend the party are VIPs aren't they, else they won't need body guards. Btw, body guard guards one person only.
 

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