Anyone booked a BMW last night?
- Thread starter UncleFai
- Start date
i booked a BMX cos this one i can fully pay for.. lol!
anyway, i think it will be similar to the 1990s situation. K- cars will make a comeback, cars will be stripped down to lower the OMV, COE will over around 30K (hopefully..), interest rates will go up though to perhaps 3%.
anyway, i think it will be similar to the 1990s situation. K- cars will make a comeback, cars will be stripped down to lower the OMV, COE will over around 30K (hopefully..), interest rates will go up though to perhaps 3%.
Zero down payment and 10 years loan for a car is ridiculous.
While I may not agree with many of the governing party policies, I'm glad the aforementioned is no longer in effect. People especially those in the sandwiched class will just have to exercise better judgement in financial management if they do really want to get a personal car but I doubt it will have an affect on COE though due to several other contributing factors.
While I may not agree with many of the governing party policies, I'm glad the aforementioned is no longer in effect. People especially those in the sandwiched class will just have to exercise better judgement in financial management if they do really want to get a personal car but I doubt it will have an affect on COE though due to several other contributing factors.
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There are collateral damages. Think about those who really need a car but cannot afford one. I think more emphasis should be on those who owns more than 1 car.
The COE next month should increase due to the last minute buying last night for those who do not want to pay 40-50% and can only loan up to 5 years. I will be curious if COE will soften in April or May due to this policy. And if it does , by how much?
If the COE depreciates to around $60k for Cat B and $70k for Cat A, a Toyota Corolla will come back down to about $100k. Upfront payment of $40k with monthly instalment of around $1k. Will it deter first time entrants? I think unlikely. It may restrict first time car buyers from luxury cars due to the initial outlay of cash. But then again, 上有政策，下有对策。Will wait and see what the respective car dealers come up with.
What about the impact to used cars market?
If the COE depreciates to around $60k for Cat B and $70k for Cat A, a Toyota Corolla will come back down to about $100k. Upfront payment of $40k with monthly instalment of around $1k. Will it deter first time entrants? I think unlikely. It may restrict first time car buyers from luxury cars due to the initial outlay of cash. But then again, 上有政策，下有对策。Will wait and see what the respective car dealers come up with.
What about the impact to used cars market?
Actually should also taxed bicycle riders as they are the only road users who use it for free. And cyclist can also claim zero carbon emission rebates. Seriously, if the government builds a dedicated lane for cyclist, I don't mind paying toll to use it. It is so risky to cycle among the lorries, buses and cars.
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Actually should also taxed bicycle riders as they are the only road users who use it for free. And cyclist can also claim zero carbon emission rebates. Seriously, if the government builds a dedicated lane for cyclist, I don't mind paying toll to use it. It is so risky to cycle among the lorries, buses and cars.
Singapore is the right country to encourage cycling.....
Hmm..From what i think and see.. More people buy a car more for their want than need. Seriously, out of so many driver how many really need a car. Or like someone pointed out. How many car do 1 person need. :bsmilie: Singapore is not very big for so many people to own car..and taking into consideration the population is just going to increase and not decrease. (Driving a car to work and home..or for fetching and driving your family around is not really a NEED to me. Its more like a want and luxury..)
If the job really need a car. Then the company or your boss should give assist or "help" you enough to get 1. Since it is required for the job. All in all, this time i sort of agree with what is being implemented for ownership of car.
If the job really need a car. Then the company or your boss should give assist or "help" you enough to get 1. Since it is required for the job. All in all, this time i sort of agree with what is being implemented for ownership of car.
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To take more than 50% for a car at today price is not a great thing. I therefore fully support this new initiative. Imagine buying a $150K car and just paying $30K with a $150K loan! I wonder how many are doing that now.
The priority is not correct and this is something we don't want to see happening to our next generations. A $150K loan to start a biz is another story.
The priority is not correct and this is something we don't want to see happening to our next generations. A $150K loan to start a biz is another story.
Cars are overpriced in SG.
The new measures enforce financial prudence on people who cannot afford a car but bluff themselves that they NEED a car.
And to prevent silly financing schemes for cars.
In distant past, BMWs were sold with balloon payment scheme. Most people could not afford the big payments at later stage.
Naturally, the new measures are skewed in favour of the super rich who are immune. If you want 100% upfront, the super rich can pay that too.
The new measures enforce financial prudence on people who cannot afford a car but bluff themselves that they NEED a car.
And to prevent silly financing schemes for cars.
In distant past, BMWs were sold with balloon payment scheme. Most people could not afford the big payments at later stage.
Naturally, the new measures are skewed in favour of the super rich who are immune. If you want 100% upfront, the super rich can pay that too.
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Whether COE premium will be corrected, it'll all depend on the percentage of buyers who place down payment of >50% vs those who drive away with zero down payment.
The problem previously was, even if you have money to put down 40% down payment, you are penalized by the dealer for not taking more loans by having to pay more higher price for the car. So, it sort of distort the big picture and why the government see from their stats is, almost every buyer take high loan quantum to buy car. Therefore their measures should be enough to bring down the COE assuming majority of buyers find it hard to cough out 40-50% down payment.
The truth is, car dealers may simply up their car price and kickback to buyers thru high over trade to partially solve the 50% downpayment hurdle. Since many genuine buyers who could afford a car would already own a car which could defray part of the 50%.
I think COE will ultimately be corrected, but will stay at $60+ k level.
The problem previously was, even if you have money to put down 40% down payment, you are penalized by the dealer for not taking more loans by having to pay more higher price for the car. So, it sort of distort the big picture and why the government see from their stats is, almost every buyer take high loan quantum to buy car. Therefore their measures should be enough to bring down the COE assuming majority of buyers find it hard to cough out 40-50% down payment.
The truth is, car dealers may simply up their car price and kickback to buyers thru high over trade to partially solve the 50% downpayment hurdle. Since many genuine buyers who could afford a car would already own a car which could defray part of the 50%.
I think COE will ultimately be corrected, but will stay at $60+ k level.
One thing I can not understand is that why didn't we bring in electric motorbike? They are more environmentally friendlier. Somehow cars are the main seller here and they are focusing on cars. Electric cars are not practical due to air con but electric bike has no such issue.
do you have any of the following:
1) kids (or kittens, for the case of cats)
2) need to get to many many places fast fast for multiple meetings
3) a need to transport goods/stuff at least twice a week or more?
owning a car is a very real requirement if any 1 of the above criteria are fulfilled...
This one shared to me by my friend I think this came from Facebook... I am not the author nor my friend is. I am just trying to share this to everyone here
------------------------------------Start of Part 1---------------------------------------------------------
With the new restrictions from MAS on car loans and also on the New Tier Tax Structure on ARF taxes announced as part of Budget 2013, I thought I will list the following out to help people understand car buying in general in Singapore, as I was very surprised that the few people I spoke to and who owned vehicles did not understand or have any clue on how are cars priced in Singapore and what are the factors contributing to the exorbitant amount of cash we paid for our set of wheels in Singapore.
Car prices in Singapore are priced on the following:
A) OMV (Open Market Value): OMV is assessed by the Singapore Customs, taking into account purchase price, freight, insurance and all other charges incidental to the sale and delivery of the car from country of manufacture to Singapore. This means your beloved set of wheels actually costs lesser from the manufacturer and the OMV is not the selling price from the manufacturer to the local authorized dealer. If you are looking for the OMV of any vehicles, you are welcome to click on the following link:
ONE.MOTORING - Open Market Value
B) COE (Certificate of Entitlement): This is pretty much self-explanatory. Every neighborhood Uncle / Aunties /Ah Gong / Ah Ma knows about the COE. We have Cat A, B, C, D, and E. For the benefit of discussion on private motor vehicles, we really only need to be looking at Cat A: (1600CC and below), Cat B: (Above 1600CC), and Cat E: (Open Cat, where we can use it for vehicles in both Either A or B).
There are a lot of critiques on whether the current COE system actually does what it was intended for, and also with many people crying for a revamp of the system, but I’m sure with the new MAS ruling and New Tier tax structure on the ARF announced just last night, these people probably would have wished that they have shut up instead because they just received 1 mega driver slap in their faces from our ruling party despite predictions that COE prices will come down with the new MAS Ruling working hand in hand with the New Tax Rate Structure on ARF if Budget 2013 is approved and moved in Parliament. (mildly is my guess).
C) ARF (Additional Registration Fees) 100% of the OMV based on the existing ruling before Budget 2013. This translates to a pure gravy transfer from our bank account into the government coffer.
With Budget 2013, a new tier ARF tax structure is in place. If the OMV of your dream vehicle is;
Example: OMV of an Entry level BMW 320I is currently at $36, 486 (Based on the link above). The ARF for this vehicle will now be 100% of the first $20,000 and 140% of the remaining $16,486 which is $23,080. Adding both $20,000 and $23,080 gives you the final ARF of $43,080.
You are now paying an extra $6594 ($43,080 - $36,486) because the OMV is > $20,000. So in short, the higher the OMV, the more ARF you pay.
D) Custom Duty: 20% of the OMV. This is a straight up additional form of duty fees imposed on top of the ARF that goes straight to the Government account.
E) GST: 7% GST on the Custom Duty + OMV. A form of consumption taxes that is imposed to transfer your hard earned cash into the government account based on the value of goods that you have consumed.
F) Registration Fees of $140. (Well, someone needs to do the administrative tasks and all the paperwork required right? We have a first world civil services and they really need to be paid).
G) Vehicle Plate Fees of $30. You wheels needs to be properly identified and tag so that it makes our friendly “Summon Auntie” job easier. They do need to take down your car license plate if you have over parked or parked in a lorry lot (sounds familiar?), or for our brave TP who chases you down the PIE at 150km/h.
H) Whatever else more you paid on top of the 7 points above = Authorized Dealer’s profit. You can’t expect them to do all this for you for free, can you? Btw, this is a really very huge margin after you do your calculation. But I don’t blame them. They need to pay good commission to their Sales Executives and also on their marketing campaign (VW is really good at that I must say). In addition, as one of my friends, KC had pointed out, the AD also bears the Warranty of the vehicle for whatever amount of years they promised to you in the sales agreement, together with an "X" number of times of free servicing which they deem ok to dish out.
I) CEV (Carbon Emission Vehicle) Rebates or Surcharge: Finally, after all the 8 points above, we are finally getting some form of rebates (or Surcharges Ha-ha). To keep things simple, rebates are given from $0 to $20,000 if your vehicle is environmentally friendly and penalized with Surcharge from again $0 to $20,000 if it pollutes mother nature and our ozone layer.
To put things into perspective, I will provide an example of a cost breakdown of all factors listed above that makes up the car prices with the New Tier Tax Structure on the ARF with 2 examples below. (I.E. Friendly Family Toyota Altis 1.6L, and a Higher end Luxurious BMW 320I 2.0L )
* Assumption: I have not included the CEV into the calculations for both examples.
* I have also used the COE based on the 2nd Open Bidding for Month of Feb-2013 with the New Tier Tax structure on OMV > $20,000 in Example 2 below for the BMW 320I 2.0L
* Please also note that OMVs values are not always the same even on the same model of vehicles and they fluctuate with every shipment (mild fluctuation really). This in turns cause ARF values to change as well as Custom Duties and GST. Of course COEs are on bidded basics as well. Therefore car prices are always volatile.
Example 1: Toyota Altis 1.6L
1. OMV: $15,270
2. COE: $78,301 (Based on 2nd Open Bidding for Month of Feb-2013 for CAT A)
3. ARF: $15,270 (100% of OMV only since OMV is less than $20,000)
4. Custom Duty: $3,054 (20% of OMV)
5. GST: $1,283 (Based on 7% of OMV + Custom Duty)
6. Registration Fees: $140
7. Vehicle Plate Fees: $30
Total Cost of Car: $113, 348 (Add up all 1 to 7 together)
Borneo Motor List Price: $139,988 (Price with Guaranteed Gold COE within 3 months from Borneo website)
Difference: $26,640 (Translates to Profits for Borneo Motor or whatever they can keep after their operating costs are subtracted.)
Example 2: BMW 320I 2.0L
1. OMV: $36,486
2. COE: $92,667 (Based on 2nd Open Bidding for Month of Feb-2013 for CAT B)
3. ARF: $43,080 (Additional Tax Structure of 140% applies to excess $16,486)
4. Custom Duty: $7,297 (20% of OMV)
5. GST: $3,064 (Based on 7% of OMV + Custom Duty)
6. Registration Fees: $140
7. Vehicle Plate Fees: $30
--------------------------------------------end of Part 1-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------Start of Part 1---------------------------------------------------------
With the new restrictions from MAS on car loans and also on the New Tier Tax Structure on ARF taxes announced as part of Budget 2013, I thought I will list the following out to help people understand car buying in general in Singapore, as I was very surprised that the few people I spoke to and who owned vehicles did not understand or have any clue on how are cars priced in Singapore and what are the factors contributing to the exorbitant amount of cash we paid for our set of wheels in Singapore.
Car prices in Singapore are priced on the following:
A) OMV (Open Market Value): OMV is assessed by the Singapore Customs, taking into account purchase price, freight, insurance and all other charges incidental to the sale and delivery of the car from country of manufacture to Singapore. This means your beloved set of wheels actually costs lesser from the manufacturer and the OMV is not the selling price from the manufacturer to the local authorized dealer. If you are looking for the OMV of any vehicles, you are welcome to click on the following link:
ONE.MOTORING - Open Market Value
B) COE (Certificate of Entitlement): This is pretty much self-explanatory. Every neighborhood Uncle / Aunties /Ah Gong / Ah Ma knows about the COE. We have Cat A, B, C, D, and E. For the benefit of discussion on private motor vehicles, we really only need to be looking at Cat A: (1600CC and below), Cat B: (Above 1600CC), and Cat E: (Open Cat, where we can use it for vehicles in both Either A or B).
There are a lot of critiques on whether the current COE system actually does what it was intended for, and also with many people crying for a revamp of the system, but I’m sure with the new MAS ruling and New Tier tax structure on the ARF announced just last night, these people probably would have wished that they have shut up instead because they just received 1 mega driver slap in their faces from our ruling party despite predictions that COE prices will come down with the new MAS Ruling working hand in hand with the New Tax Rate Structure on ARF if Budget 2013 is approved and moved in Parliament. (mildly is my guess).
C) ARF (Additional Registration Fees) 100% of the OMV based on the existing ruling before Budget 2013. This translates to a pure gravy transfer from our bank account into the government coffer.
With Budget 2013, a new tier ARF tax structure is in place. If the OMV of your dream vehicle is;
Example: OMV of an Entry level BMW 320I is currently at $36, 486 (Based on the link above). The ARF for this vehicle will now be 100% of the first $20,000 and 140% of the remaining $16,486 which is $23,080. Adding both $20,000 and $23,080 gives you the final ARF of $43,080.
You are now paying an extra $6594 ($43,080 - $36,486) because the OMV is > $20,000. So in short, the higher the OMV, the more ARF you pay.
D) Custom Duty: 20% of the OMV. This is a straight up additional form of duty fees imposed on top of the ARF that goes straight to the Government account.
E) GST: 7% GST on the Custom Duty + OMV. A form of consumption taxes that is imposed to transfer your hard earned cash into the government account based on the value of goods that you have consumed.
F) Registration Fees of $140. (Well, someone needs to do the administrative tasks and all the paperwork required right? We have a first world civil services and they really need to be paid).
G) Vehicle Plate Fees of $30. You wheels needs to be properly identified and tag so that it makes our friendly “Summon Auntie” job easier. They do need to take down your car license plate if you have over parked or parked in a lorry lot (sounds familiar?), or for our brave TP who chases you down the PIE at 150km/h.
H) Whatever else more you paid on top of the 7 points above = Authorized Dealer’s profit. You can’t expect them to do all this for you for free, can you? Btw, this is a really very huge margin after you do your calculation. But I don’t blame them. They need to pay good commission to their Sales Executives and also on their marketing campaign (VW is really good at that I must say). In addition, as one of my friends, KC had pointed out, the AD also bears the Warranty of the vehicle for whatever amount of years they promised to you in the sales agreement, together with an "X" number of times of free servicing which they deem ok to dish out.
I) CEV (Carbon Emission Vehicle) Rebates or Surcharge: Finally, after all the 8 points above, we are finally getting some form of rebates (or Surcharges Ha-ha). To keep things simple, rebates are given from $0 to $20,000 if your vehicle is environmentally friendly and penalized with Surcharge from again $0 to $20,000 if it pollutes mother nature and our ozone layer.
To put things into perspective, I will provide an example of a cost breakdown of all factors listed above that makes up the car prices with the New Tier Tax Structure on the ARF with 2 examples below. (I.E. Friendly Family Toyota Altis 1.6L, and a Higher end Luxurious BMW 320I 2.0L )
* Assumption: I have not included the CEV into the calculations for both examples.
* I have also used the COE based on the 2nd Open Bidding for Month of Feb-2013 with the New Tier Tax structure on OMV > $20,000 in Example 2 below for the BMW 320I 2.0L
* Please also note that OMVs values are not always the same even on the same model of vehicles and they fluctuate with every shipment (mild fluctuation really). This in turns cause ARF values to change as well as Custom Duties and GST. Of course COEs are on bidded basics as well. Therefore car prices are always volatile.
Example 1: Toyota Altis 1.6L
1. OMV: $15,270
2. COE: $78,301 (Based on 2nd Open Bidding for Month of Feb-2013 for CAT A)
3. ARF: $15,270 (100% of OMV only since OMV is less than $20,000)
4. Custom Duty: $3,054 (20% of OMV)
5. GST: $1,283 (Based on 7% of OMV + Custom Duty)
6. Registration Fees: $140
7. Vehicle Plate Fees: $30
Total Cost of Car: $113, 348 (Add up all 1 to 7 together)
Borneo Motor List Price: $139,988 (Price with Guaranteed Gold COE within 3 months from Borneo website)
Difference: $26,640 (Translates to Profits for Borneo Motor or whatever they can keep after their operating costs are subtracted.)
Example 2: BMW 320I 2.0L
1. OMV: $36,486
2. COE: $92,667 (Based on 2nd Open Bidding for Month of Feb-2013 for CAT B)
3. ARF: $43,080 (Additional Tax Structure of 140% applies to excess $16,486)
4. Custom Duty: $7,297 (20% of OMV)
5. GST: $3,064 (Based on 7% of OMV + Custom Duty)
6. Registration Fees: $140
7. Vehicle Plate Fees: $30
--------------------------------------------end of Part 1-------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Start of Part 2---------------------------------------------------
Total Cost of Car: $182,764 (Add up all 1 to 7 together)
Performance Motor List Price: $216,800
Difference: $34,036 (Translates to Profits for Performance Motor or whatever they can keep after their operating costs are subtracted.)
In conclusion, I hope this article have helped car buyers understand what they are paying for when they go car shopping and also a deeper appreciation of the amount of money that really ends up with the government because if you look at both examples above, significant amount of what you paid for your car goes to them (Point 2, 3, 4, and 5)
With the new MAS ruling already in effect today, many are anticipating that COE will drop due to lesser demand as the lower middle class looks very likely to be squeezed out of the market with a 40% or 50% down payment depending on the types of car they would like to purchase. The middle and upper middle class would also be struggling to purchase a vehicle due to the same reason above and also with the additional higher monthly installment over a 5 years max loan tenure.
This maximum loan tenure of 5 years might also create an adverse impact on the banks interest rate (currently at 1.88%). It is highly likely that our banks will be increasing interest rates for car loans now due to shorter loan tenure and smaller amount of principal amount loaned.
My own prediction is prices of COE will drop but the drop will not be significant mainly because COE growth rate is currently reduced to 0.5% from February 2013 onwards and on top of that LTA has also reduced the amount of COE allocated from the total pool for CAT E: Open Category for which is usually used for Luxury Car further from 20% to 15%. With lesser supply, and steady demand. It is very unlikely prices will flucutuate wildy.
The rich will still be able to afford new vehicles as they are cash rich, but in a way they will also be paying more (alot more, really) because of the New Tier tax structure. The New Tier Tax Structure translates to a whopping increment of 180% tax imposed on cars with OMV > $50,000 and believe me when i say that is alot of additional cash they have to shell out just to own a supercar. (Porsche, Lamborghini, and Ferraris are no longer as cheap as it once was to them and if they really do purchase it, we can all shout "Hurray" because Budget 2014 will see those money translates into social spending, hopefully).
In all scenarios, I think the best thing to do now is to exercise constraints and prudence. Cash is King in Singapore. Waiting for the situation to play out and watching how these changes impacts the automobile industry as a whole and how the automobile industry reacts to them will be the better option for now.
Footnote: Entry Level Porsche 911 3.8L OMV average is $132, 053. And we are not even going to talk about Lambo or Ferraris where their OMV are in ranges of $350,000 and up. This translate to an ARF of $20,000 for the first Tier of OMV of 100% , $42,000 on the second tier between $20,001 to $50000 range at 140% , and a whopping $147,695 on the last tier for the remainer amount at 180%.
Effectively, the new ARF for a Porsche now is $209,695, a good $77,000 increase from what it was before. Think about what you want to do with all that money instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------End of Part Two-----------------------------------------------------------
Again disclaimer I am not the author of this nor claiming to be
Total Cost of Car: $182,764 (Add up all 1 to 7 together)
Performance Motor List Price: $216,800
Difference: $34,036 (Translates to Profits for Performance Motor or whatever they can keep after their operating costs are subtracted.)
In conclusion, I hope this article have helped car buyers understand what they are paying for when they go car shopping and also a deeper appreciation of the amount of money that really ends up with the government because if you look at both examples above, significant amount of what you paid for your car goes to them (Point 2, 3, 4, and 5)
With the new MAS ruling already in effect today, many are anticipating that COE will drop due to lesser demand as the lower middle class looks very likely to be squeezed out of the market with a 40% or 50% down payment depending on the types of car they would like to purchase. The middle and upper middle class would also be struggling to purchase a vehicle due to the same reason above and also with the additional higher monthly installment over a 5 years max loan tenure.
This maximum loan tenure of 5 years might also create an adverse impact on the banks interest rate (currently at 1.88%). It is highly likely that our banks will be increasing interest rates for car loans now due to shorter loan tenure and smaller amount of principal amount loaned.
My own prediction is prices of COE will drop but the drop will not be significant mainly because COE growth rate is currently reduced to 0.5% from February 2013 onwards and on top of that LTA has also reduced the amount of COE allocated from the total pool for CAT E: Open Category for which is usually used for Luxury Car further from 20% to 15%. With lesser supply, and steady demand. It is very unlikely prices will flucutuate wildy.
The rich will still be able to afford new vehicles as they are cash rich, but in a way they will also be paying more (alot more, really) because of the New Tier tax structure. The New Tier Tax Structure translates to a whopping increment of 180% tax imposed on cars with OMV > $50,000 and believe me when i say that is alot of additional cash they have to shell out just to own a supercar. (Porsche, Lamborghini, and Ferraris are no longer as cheap as it once was to them and if they really do purchase it, we can all shout "Hurray" because Budget 2014 will see those money translates into social spending, hopefully).
In all scenarios, I think the best thing to do now is to exercise constraints and prudence. Cash is King in Singapore. Waiting for the situation to play out and watching how these changes impacts the automobile industry as a whole and how the automobile industry reacts to them will be the better option for now.
Footnote: Entry Level Porsche 911 3.8L OMV average is $132, 053. And we are not even going to talk about Lambo or Ferraris where their OMV are in ranges of $350,000 and up. This translate to an ARF of $20,000 for the first Tier of OMV of 100% , $42,000 on the second tier between $20,001 to $50000 range at 140% , and a whopping $147,695 on the last tier for the remainer amount at 180%.
Effectively, the new ARF for a Porsche now is $209,695, a good $77,000 increase from what it was before. Think about what you want to do with all that money instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------End of Part Two-----------------------------------------------------------
Again disclaimer I am not the author of this nor claiming to be
Immediate consequences I can think of
1. More people complain because if avg Joe save hard and planning to own a car, this will bust his bubble instantly and he will be very unhappy.
2. Cash rich people laughing their way to the bank because they get to enjoy cheaper (many predict this is the knee jerk) coe and faster delivery of their new car
3. Young couple got better excuse not having kid because totally cannot afford a car now
4. Inflation again because everyone else will blame high mthly car installment...
5. Taxi, bus, MRT super sardine. ..
1. More people complain because if avg Joe save hard and planning to own a car, this will bust his bubble instantly and he will be very unhappy.
2. Cash rich people laughing their way to the bank because they get to enjoy cheaper (many predict this is the knee jerk) coe and faster delivery of their new car
3. Young couple got better excuse not having kid because totally cannot afford a car now
4. Inflation again because everyone else will blame high mthly car installment...
5. Taxi, bus, MRT super sardine. ..
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