% and presentability of photos submitted to clients


May 11, 2004
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#1
Hi there,

Hope to hear from the experienced events photographers here on the following 3 items:

1. If your clients ask you how many photos you took in all during their event, will you give them an honest answer? Especially if in the end the total no. of photos delivered to them was only fraction of everything that was shot. This is of course done so that when they show all these good photos to their frens etc.. chances of getting referrals are higher. VS when they show everything from the event, some good, some bad.

2. What is a decent % or ratio of delivered shots to captured shots as an event photographer? I have covered my first 2 events so far. For the first, I delivered 90 / 200 and for the second I delivered 200 / 600. Both clients say too little photos... One was a birthday party (3hrs). Another was ROM followed by dinner reception (4 hrs).

3. If your client demands for ALL photos captured from the event, regardless good or bad, what is the industry practice here to handle such requests?

Thanks!
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
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Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#2
Hi there,

Hope to hear from the experienced events photographers here on the following 3 items:

1. If your clients ask you how many photos you took in all during their event, will you give them an honest answer? Especially if in the end the total no. of photos delivered to them was only fraction of everything that was shot. This is of course done so that when they show all these good photos to their frens etc.. chances of getting referrals are higher. VS when they show everything from the event, some good, some bad.
you need not to tell them how many photos you took, they just need to know how many photos they will be getting.

2. What is a decent % or ratio of delivered shots to captured shots as an event photographer? I have covered my first 2 events so far. For the first, I delivered 90 / 200 and for the second I delivered 200 / 600. Both clients say too little photos... One was a birthday party (3hrs). Another was ROM followed by dinner reception (4 hrs).
there is not fixed amount or ratio, higher rejection rate can mean you are lousy in taking photos or very high expectation at the same time.

as usual, customers asking for more photos is always a bad sign, it is like shopping for buffet lunch, more dishes offered is equal to a good deal, they usually only looking at quantity instead of quality.
3. If your client demands for ALL photos captured from the event, regardless good or bad, what is the industry practice here to handle such requests?

Thanks!
that is a very bad idea, all they want is more more more and more photos, don't really care how good/decent/acceptable are these photos. As long any Tom Dick or Harry can give them all the photos they want are consider good photographers to them.

Any experience photographers will tell you just show/sell/give only good photos, that is only and right way make you improve and find the right type of customers for you in long run.
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
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#3
sometimes i really wonder if such clients will really border to look through all the hundreds or thousand of photos... for me, i don't have that time or patience... 15-20 good ones are enough... and each need to be different...
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
46
48
Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#4
sometimes i really wonder if such clients will really border to look through all the hundreds or thousand of photos... for me, i don't have that time or patience... 15-20 good ones are enough... and each need to be different...
that is the mentality of "I want everything as long it is free", regardless it is useful or not. if there is any good photo in the hundreds of thousands of them also will be neglected.

when a photographer encounters this type of customers he will very demoralizing, all he want to do is just keep pressing the shutter button, dump everything in the DVD and give it to the customers, he will never want to look at all the photos again.
 

Jun 24, 2003
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#5
Hi there,

Hope to hear from the experienced events photographers here on the following 3 items:

1. If your clients ask you how many photos you took in all during their event, will you give them an honest answer? Especially if in the end the total no. of photos delivered to them was only fraction of everything that was shot. This is of course done so that when they show all these good photos to their frens etc.. chances of getting referrals are higher. VS when they show everything from the event, some good, some bad.

2. What is a decent % or ratio of delivered shots to captured shots as an event photographer? I have covered my first 2 events so far. For the first, I delivered 90 / 200 and for the second I delivered 200 / 600. Both clients say too little photos... One was a birthday party (3hrs). Another was ROM followed by dinner reception (4 hrs).

3. If your client demands for ALL photos captured from the event, regardless good or bad, what is the industry practice here to handle such requests?

Thanks!
Update your SLA, that the client signs before the event, such that only you have control over what is delivered.

-- marios
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
2,092
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36
#6
that is the mentality of "I want everything as long it is free", regardless it is useful or not. if there is any good photo in the hundreds of thousands of them also will be neglected.

when a photographer encounters this type of customers he will very demoralizing, all he want to do is just keep pressing the shutter button, dump everything in the DVD and give it to the customers, he will never want to look at all the photos again.

true, indeed it is demoralizing... we need both hands to clap... just hope the situation will improve...

maybe the kiasu mentality contribute to such thinking...
 

snowspeeder

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2004
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www.themenatwork.com
#7
Usually clients who ask for lots more of photos to be returned are those cheapskate ones. I don't declare how many photos I take (even if asked upon). Will just give the reply that I'll run through the images and return the good ones to them. End of story.
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
2,092
0
36
#8
Usually clients who ask for lots more of photos to be returned are those cheapskate ones. I don't declare how many photos I take (even if asked upon). Will just give the reply that I'll run through the images and return the good ones to them. End of story.
u r my hero :thumbsup:

i will do the same.
 

May 11, 2004
466
0
0
#9
Usually clients who ask for lots more of photos to be returned are those cheapskate ones. I don't declare how many photos I take (even if asked upon). Will just give the reply that I'll run through the images and return the good ones to them. End of story.
Thx for sharing. Actually, what happens if the client continues to probe how many? Even though you said, "I'll run through and return all the good ones to you." They may go on to say, for example "yeah, but I want to know how many you took so I roughly know how many photos I'll expect to get in the end."

Or what happens if the client (like mine ;( ) says "Thx but I don't want just the good ones returned. I want ALL the photos returned to me." Photographer L L suck thumb?

Thx.
 

GeonSG

New Member
Aug 22, 2009
80
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0
#10
Thx for sharing. Actually, what happens if the client continues to probe how many? Even though you said, "I'll run through and return all the good ones to you." They may go on to say, for example "yeah, but I want to know how many you took so I roughly know how many photos I'll expect to get in the end."

Or what happens if the client (like mine ;( ) says "Thx but I don't want just the good ones returned. I want ALL the photos returned to me." Photographer L L suck thumb?

Thx.
Tell them that you will return the all the photos once you reassure them. Just repeat yourself. All the photos* in your context are the good ones.
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
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www.foto-u.com
#11
Thx for sharing. Actually, what happens if the client continues to probe how many? Even though you said, "I'll run through and return all the good ones to you." They may go on to say, for example "yeah, but I want to know how many you took so I roughly know how many photos I'll expect to get in the end."

Or what happens if the client (like mine ;( ) says "Thx but I don't want just the good ones returned. I want ALL the photos returned to me." Photographer L L suck thumb?

Thx.
you can,

#1, shoot like using film, carefully metering, compose, directing to your subject and ONLY shoot ONE frame per scene. than give them all the images to them.

#2, just tell them a figure, than cut down all the images to that figure and give it to them.

#3, just shoot anyway you like till you heart contented and give ALL to them.


or simply refer this customer to someone else.
 

mayhemics

New Member
Apr 28, 2009
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#12
i am not a pro nor am i in the business, but from a customer's viewpoint, it seems reasonable to want to have all the photos back, unless the contract is clear as day this will not be the case. after all, what may be good to you may be not good to them (for irrational reasons, even), and what may be bad to you may be special to them. so it may not totally be about kiasu mentality, though the point that many people are just not discerning is noted. from the photographer's viewpoint, i suppose one doesn't want to dilute the value of his work by pretending the not-so-good shots should make the final cut. however, the customer is indeed paying for a service...
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
46
48
Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#13
i am not a pro nor am i in the business, but from a customer's viewpoint, it seems reasonable to want to have all the photos back, unless the contract is clear as day this will not be the case. after all, what may be good to you may be not good to them (for irrational reasons, even), and what may be bad to you may be special to them. so it may not totally be about kiasu mentality, though the point that many people are just not discerning is noted. from the photographer's viewpoint, i suppose one doesn't want to dilute the value of his work by pretending the not-so-good shots should make the final cut. however, the customer is indeed paying for a service...
noting is free and everything come with the price.

even if the bad shots are available, will be charge at a price, may I know if you are charge for keeping the unwanted shots, will you willing to pay?

since most customers will not be willing to pay, and photographers are not willing to give away free, why should customers demand it for free in the first place?
 

snowspeeder

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2004
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www.themenatwork.com
#15
Thx for sharing. Actually, what happens if the client continues to probe how many? Even though you said, "I'll run through and return all the good ones to you." They may go on to say, for example "yeah, but I want to know how many you took so I roughly know how many photos I'll expect to get in the end."

Or what happens if the client (like mine ;( ) says "Thx but I don't want just the good ones returned. I want ALL the photos returned to me." Photographer L L suck thumb?

Thx.
Well that will depend how confident you are in your communication skills to handle such clients (this will enable you to earn their respect). You could give them a minimum gauge as to how many you will give them (explaining that you need to go thru a QC process). You could also delete the 'not so good' shots in your camera first if they wanted the images immediately after the event. Bottom line is the level of your relationship with the client. If you let them kick you around like a soccer ball, then good luck.
 

snowspeeder

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2004
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#16
noting is free and everything come with the price.

even if the bad shots are available, will be charge at a price, may I know if you are charge for keeping the unwanted shots, will you willing to pay?

since most customers will not be willing to pay, and photographers are not willing to give away free, why should customers demand it for free in the first place?
:thumbsup:Thats right!
Customers paying a professional fee to the photographer for his time and service in return for images to be returned (selected good images); is different from paying a professional fee to get back ALL the images.

Same duration of coverage, same service, but different amount of images returned calls for different charges.
 

snowspeeder

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2004
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#17
however, the customer is indeed paying for a service...
It is the responsibility on the part of the photographer to inform the client on what he is getting back for the service (prior the confirmation of the assignment). This will prevent miscommunication and differing expectations.

The client should also read clearly and ask questions (if in doubt) before commissioning the photographer for the job, so that the client will know what they are paying for (and not expect anything and everything).
 

GeonSG

New Member
Aug 22, 2009
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#18
i am not a pro nor am i in the business, but from a customer's viewpoint, it seems reasonable to want to have all the photos back, unless the contract is clear as day this will not be the case. after all, what may be good to you may be not good to them (for irrational reasons, even), and what may be bad to you may be special to them. so it may not totally be about kiasu mentality, though the point that many people are just not discerning is noted. from the photographer's viewpoint, i suppose one doesn't want to dilute the value of his work by pretending the not-so-good shots should make the final cut. however, the customer is indeed paying for a service...
My 2cents worth only ah, just for a laff if you want.

It is the triple K mentality. Kiasu, Kiasi, Kiabo. And let me add on one more, "Ke Kiang" Act Smart. This is unfortunately the truth, there are customers who pay peanuts and demand a lorry. When one keep taking such job, he will realize he has no portfolio, and I personlly feel he is just renting his time as an entertainer to the customer. The best part the customer will Ke Kiang and squeeze for juice when they look thru the photos scrutinizing this and that. Why? Cos they are trying their best to discount the payment.

Sometime, if you are even more unlucky u will shoot at events where the mktg staff are shooting themselves, best part they yaya papaya show u their prime lens and share how much they know abt photography. For instance "I can hand hold my camera for 1/10" with good images. But when you put to full resolution, the image is entirely blurr but they tell u that you are pixel peeping. LOL
 

snowspeeder

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2004
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#19
My 2cents worth only ah, just for a laff if you want.

It is the triple K mentality. Kiasu, Kiasi, Kiabo. And let me add on one more, "Ke Kiang" Act Smart. This is unfortunately the truth, there are customers who pay peanuts and demand a lorry. When one keep taking such job, he will realize he has no portfolio, and I personlly feel he is just renting his time as an entertainer to the customer. The best part the customer will Ke Kiang and squeeze for juice when they look thru the photos scrutinizing this and that. Why? Cos they are trying their best to discount the payment.
You speak the divine truth. ;)
 

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
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www.tomato.sg
#20
Hope to hear from the experienced events photographers here on the following 3 items:

1. If your clients ask you how many photos you took in all during their event, will you give them an honest answer? Especially if in the end the total no. of photos delivered to them was only fraction of everything that was shot. This is of course done so that when they show all these good photos to their frens etc.. chances of getting referrals are higher. VS when they show everything from the event, some good, some bad.

- Just tell them, it will depend on the event. Some more some less. Regardless, if you have capture what is needed to be captured, I don't think the number is important.

- Do not tempted to give the client unfinished (this definition will differ from one photog to another) product, unless u want to ruin your reputation.


2. What is a decent % or ratio of delivered shots to captured shots as an event photographer? I have covered my first 2 events so far. For the first, I delivered 90 / 200 and for the second I delivered 200 / 600. Both clients say too little photos... One was a
birthday party (3hrs). Another was ROM followed by dinner reception (4 hrs).

- Ratio is not important, what important is you have record the event properly and give them the thorough of the whole event as if they have attend it themselves.

3. If your client demands for ALL photos captured from the event, regardless good or bad, what is the industry practice here to handle such requests?

There isn't a industry practice, lazy photographer and those don't care too much about their image or those who think they get exactly they shoot will give clients everything.

Show the best not the rest.... if they insist, you don't have to take the job.... and this is industry standard.


Don't start photography business if client still dictate what you do... they should buy what you do and be happy with it...

Good luck.



Regards,

Hart
 

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