Amazon.de stops selling the K5 body alone, but still selling K5 with Kit lens set

[sircam]

As a K5 owner, I am not too happy learning about this. I'd like to point this out to other K5 owners here who may be similarly affected as well.

I have been recently highlighting the fact that many K5 bodies have some issues (including mine), but it seems either a moderator here closes threads which discuss this problem OR a few regular K5 owners (who may be or seem to be on friendly terms with the local guys) "hound out" other K5 owners (who are genuinely concerned and wish to discuss this problem) by showing off their "knowledge" and treating the rest of us like idiots/trolls.

I will henceforth complain to the forum owners (top level admins) if this trend continues i.e. if threads which glorifying the Pentax products are allowed to continue into several pages versus threads which criticize the Pentax products are cut off midway either by thread closure or fanboy hounding.

As proof that what I have been pointing out is a very valid fact, Amazon.de has actually gone to the extent of making an official announcement that they have temporarily stopped selling K5 units via their web site due to a lot of unhappy customers.

Here is the link. See for yourself. Their official announcement is in the yellow box a little below the pricing.

http://www.amazon.de/Pentax-K-5-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-Geh%C3%A4use/dp/B00439HH00/ref=sr_1_21?s=ce-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1293970617&sr=1-21

To see the same page translated from German to English via BableFish, click the link below...

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translat...293970617&sr=1-21&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

Not sure if this one is related to the sensor staining issue (not affecting my K5) or the consistent inaccurate focus in dim artificial light issue (which affects my K5 purchased in Sg as well) or to some other issue.

The C.E.O. of Pentax USA had already gone on record earlier confirming the sensor staining issue and had stated that Pentax Japan is 'investigating' the issue... but quite some time as passed already and it is high time Pentax made an official announcement. It should not take very long to investigate serious issues such as this.

I am hopeful we may hear something official from Pentax Japan regarding K5 issues sooner, since a large corporate entity such as Amazon.de actually has commenced withholding further sales of K5 units.

I am fed up with the others who have hounded me in my previous two threads on this subject over the last two weeks. Kindly refrain from posting the same vitriol over here. If your K5 does not suffer from any of these problems, I see no real point in posting in this thread. Please allow us affected owners to discuss this.

I own many cameras across multiple brands and am a member of several other top-rated forums (including ClubSNAP), but nowhere do I come across blatant bias like I do in the Pentax section of this forum. I also regularly post in the Panasonic section of this forum and I have never faced such blatant bias there as well.

 

[CorneliusK]

As proof that what I have been pointing out is a very valid fact, Amazon.de has actually gone to the extent of making an official announcement that they have temporarily stopped selling K5 units via their web site due to a lot of unhappy customers.

The babelfish translation

"For the moment this article is not directly available over Amazon.de. Customers informed us that the received article deviates from the description on the website.

We work already on a fast solution. Possibly this article is to be ordered over a third offerer."

I'm not trying to defend pentax here, they certainly need to address some issues with the K-5. But you seem to be implying that there are a many customers which are unhappy with the K-5 due to various faults, and that amazon.de has stopped selling K-5's as a result.

I don't quite see how you can conclude that from the statement above? It sounds more like a database error where customers are actually receiving a completely different item rather than due to unhappiness over the performance of the product?

 

[oceanpriest]

from Ricehigh's blog ? :bsmilie:

Just now, I checked Amazon.de, they are still selling K-5 with 18-55mm and 18-135mm.

http://www.amazon.de/Pentax-K-5-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-Objektiv/dp/B00439HH0A/ref=sr_1_3?s=ce-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1294046498&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.de/Pentax-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-18-135-Objektiv/dp/B00439HH0K/ref=sr_1_1?s=ce-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1294047062&sr=1-1

 

[CorneliusK]

Amazon.de seems to be still selling the K-5 kits with the 18-55WR and the 18-135WR

K-5 kit 18-55WR

K-5 kit with 18-135WR

Seems like amazon.de has only stopped selling the K-5 body set, sounds like some sort of administrative error rather than due to customer unhappiness over the K-5?

I am not sure who is the one who is being biased here?

 

[vollov]

Just keep this thread open. His remark regarding bias is not without cause (I think I understand how he gets that impression) and the best way to address that is to be open regarding it.

There are issues with the K5: sensor staining and poor AF under tungsten lighting. Just because it doesn't manifest itself for you doesn't mean it doesn't manifest itself for all. A forum should cater for both the good and the bad and be self-moderating.

As he has mentioned, if yours don't have an issue, fantastic...continue in the other threads. Otherwise, let them gather and comment. No harm no foul.

Let's all get along.

 

[fengwei]

Since Amazon.de is still selling K5 (although it's w/ some bundles), the info posted by TS is false and unwaranted. I can close the thread just because of this ... But I'll hold off for a while and see how the discuss goes.

If you think your K5 has some problem, just go to service center, have it fixed or exchanged. Why keep complaining and complaining? Pentax is offering one to one exchange if you found stains on your K5 and are not happy with it. But make sure it's stains, not some dust. Emjay will help you to send the camera to Japan, have it checked and verified. If it's really stained, you'd get a new one back.

Yes, some K5 cameras got stained sensors, and Pentax Japan is well aware of this. So far the one to one exchange service has been well received by most countries including Singapore. I just don't understand why guys like TS keep whinning.

 

[ricsal]

I have learnt that in order to get an Apple to turn to gold. One must seek to change it rather than wait for it to turn gold itself for it will forever NOT.

I do get what u mean abt Pentax K5 & Kr problems this and that. Seriously, I am just a Pentax User. and Yes, I do face similar problem with my K-5. So what did I do? I went to the source rather than waiting here hoping for any kind soul posted an answered from Pentax. and YES, my K5 stained Sensor has been replaced by Pentax. All bcoz I made an effort. Now its soooo stained free that my K-5 didnt even get a chance to stay in the dry cabinet. as for the AF problems, most probably they are making another Firmware for it, u wouldnt know...and its not easy to write a programme to write-off another one. They had to test and test for the Firmware to be free of any bugs that can create another problems. Thats why u can see why it takes months for another firmware to come out.

Yes, I agree with you that Kx is great of which u kept REPEATING it with every post. I dont know either u trying to make the Value higher for B&S(seems like it) or not. U kept stating that U tested the Kr,K5 and Kx image bla bla and Kx won. This is Photography Forum, so come on, show us the Picture of your test. At least that would be a proof for u. Coz u didnt give us the pic as a proof to see but kept on repeating over and over with like 3000 words essay. Even a teacher can fall asleep reading that.

I think everyone here knows their camera Limits and problems(I think most surf Pentaxforums.com) from a website.

I think I know why some ppl are pissed off, u dont walk the talk but talk the talk. U got it? U kept whining but never show the solutions...so the answer of your whining is it for us to jump ship?

U saying Kx is gold. K5 & Kr has problem.U own Nikon, Nikon AF is great and u might getting the D7000. In fact, D7000 also has problems of their own so u also wanna harp in Nikon Thread abt D7000 problems? I say Gud luck. Since Nikon/Pentax uses Sony Sensor, u might wanna post complaints on Sony threads too. Let just see whats gonna happen yea? I probably think u would be getting the same response from the Fans as much as how u recieved here.

Apology if u offended. But this is what I think abt ur post. First it was helpful, but then after few post, it got really annoying. Coz I DONT KNOW what u want.

 

[ricsal]

Since Amazon.de is still selling K5 (although it's w/ some bundles), the info posted by TS is false and unwaranted. I can close the thread just because of this ... But I'll hold off for a while and see how the discuss goes.

If you think your K5 has some problem, just go to service center, have it fixed or exchanged. Why keep complaining and complaining? Pentax is offering one to one exchange if you found stains on your K5 and are not happy with it. But make sure it's stains, not some dust. Emjay will help you to send the camera to Japan, have it checked and verified. If it's really stained, you'd get a new one back.

Yes, some K5 cameras got stained sensors, and Pentax Japan is well aware of this. So far the one to one exchange service has been well received by most countries including Singapore. I just don't understand why guys like TS keep whinning.

Just to clarify, Pentax didnt do one to one exchange. In fact, they changed the sensor filter( I think) only. I think for my set la. Coz I got my Baby back again with a clean sensor. Suspect they only change the stained filter. Which is quite good already. So far tested, no problems already. Which made me very happy since I got my baby back instead of new one.

so for some of u whom have shoot 10k shutter, no one to one exchange hah :bsmilie:

Maybe for some new adopters, they would do one to one. Maybe, just need to ask.

If pentax create their own sensor, I bet they would rectify the problems fast. But since its from another company(sony) they have to wait for their answer which can take times. I know, coz my job scope involves QC and waiting for an answer from a company can be very frustrating. :angry:

 

[creampuff]

Honestly I have no idea what in the world you're complaining about.
You previously ranted over having to spend money for an optional plastic battery holder to use AA batteries for the K-r and now you're making unproven assertions that supposed issues with the K-5 is the reason why Amazon Germany has stopped selling the camera.

Did you buy your camera from Amazon.de? No right?
Amazon.de may have for the moment stopped selling the camera but what has that got to do with your explanation? Nothing as far as I can tell. You don't even know for certain what is the real issue for Amazon.de's decision so your pathetic attempt to connect the dots to your perceived issues don't add up.

You say you have no issue with the sensor stains on your K-5 (good for you), you mention focus issues (yet you haven't posted any photographic proof to date), yet you choose to openly slag Pentax in your previous posts. You may have bought a K-5 but that doesn't mean Pentax owes you or me any explanation on any supposed issue. Got any issue, then sort it out with the local agent. That's what your camera warranty is for. So please quit whining and grow up. If you are prepared to post opinions which are questionable then be prepared for people to challenge any assertions they may disagree with.

FYI I experienced the sensor stain issue firsthand and I am grateful for the way our local agent handled the issue expeditiously with Pentax Japan. Everything worked out fine and even though I did not have use of a Pentax for a short period, there was no need for histrionics or the need to openly discredit anyone. The issue was resolved under warranty with no hiccups. Kudos to Emjay and Pentax Japan. :thumbsup:

 

[sircam]

Already inquired from Emjay. They will NOT exchange my K5 for another new unit. I can understand that and frankly did not expect them to exchange it. Nothing wrong about this and their service is great. Once again you are assuming I did not resort to common sense. As I said before, some in here easily tend to give advice as if others are always idiots/trolls.

Emjay suggested that its best that I wait for an official announcement in this regard since my camera works okay in normal light. There is nothing to really fix at the moment. Till then I am using my K5... its not as if its not working altogether. Don't automatically assume that I do not understand or cannot test my equipment as well as you do yours.

Please don't try to insinuate that I am the only one who is "complaining and complaining." Look around on other sites as well and there are so many others you will soon lose count. Some members here (yourself included) hound us out when we try to discuss any problem with our equipment just because yours either doesn't suffer from it OR for some other reason perhaps.

And when I point out that many others are also globally complaining about the same issue that I am facing, you literally tell me to "go away" and lock the thread. I felt your behavior on the other thread which you locked just after a few posts was borderline rude and unwarranted. Maybe if there was a 'freer' atmosphere in here, others would highlight their problems more freely as well.

I do not want to argue 'senselessly'. When I checked amazon.de myself after reading about this on another site today morning (not RiceHigh's site) I posted my findings to share with others here. The same message still shows up for me. I didn't check for the K5 sold as a kit. I didn't buy my K5 as a kit either.

Thanks to the input of others here, I am feeling much more relieved now that not all K5 units are withheld. It does seem plausible that it could be a database error as someone suggested it might. But, then again, such database errors are easily fixed rapidly enough and there is no real need to post such a 'loud' warning. There could be more to this issue than either of us here is aware of. We can "only surmise" since we are not employed at amazon.de. I guess time will throw more light upon this. Maybe the auto-translation should also be taken with a pinch of salt. None of us can be 100% sure unless we are fluent in German.

That is what this forum should be about. Open minded discussion. We are sometimes the informers and sometimes the ones who get informed. Both sides opinions have to be discussed in order for this to happen. As it is we are a much smaller community here and we should, as a consequence, be even more open minded.

I don't mind you closing threads if any one is trolling or is being unnecessarily rude. A look at my posting history will speak up for me whether I generally come across as rude or as a troll.

No need to insinuate, be verbal or rude. Why get so defensive everytime someone posts some complaints or personal opinions which do not match yours? Peace.

 

[nhieudan]

I had a friend living in French, who got a stained K5 and thank to Pentaxforum he found his faulty camera. However, he have exchanged new replacement of his very easily from Pentax dealer in French. I think that Pentax (Hoya) have right direction of their international after sale service direction. Therefore, we Vietnamese are fully aware of K5 temporary errors and as Pentaxian we keep supporting Pentax products.

 

[ricsal]

Last few outings I went, most Pentaxians did talk about the Problems u brought up. if u can follow our outing again, maybe u can understand why some problems did not posted here. As it was already talked abt during outing. Unless u want us to make a Minutes for you and posted here.

Stained Sensor: Go to Emjay and let them handle with Pentax Japan. Though check the sensor properly for the stains and dun assume any dots is stains coz they are just dust.(The stain are really black with Halos around it). There are Pentaxian whom can live with it. Coz u can clone the dots in Photoshop

AF failure in Tungsten: Confirm bug problem. Have to wait for a Firmware update.

I understand that u want to help and such. BUT do read back at every threads u typed. Does it help? it just help to let people know and the way ur statements goes, its like stabbing pentax from the back. Like Pentax takes time to respond, KR is not good and K5 too. U dun show any true intention of helping at all. Really.

And Please, u dun need to post in every thread that u own a full set of system all the time. We read once and we know. We are not blind people.

 

[pinholecam]

Yes, I agree with you that Kx is great of which u kept REPEATING it with every post. I dont know either u trying to make the Value higher for B&S(seems like it) or not. U kept stating that U tested the Kr,K5 and Kx image bla bla and Kx won. This is Photography Forum, so come on, show us the Picture of your test. At least that would be a proof for u. Coz u didnt give us the pic as a proof to see but kept on repeating over and over with like 3000 words essay. Even a teacher can fall asleep reading that.

This is the apparent agenda for TS since he started posting here. $ $ $
Before this, it was the cost of Kx vs buying overseas just to same some bucks despite having no warranty and potential delivery and sending back issues.
Now its all about problems that he has sourced over the internet and claims as his own.
Cheaper Kr, K5? Better resale value Kx???


He did not even post his own test shots when he started the thread about the K5, Kx, Kr. He even claimed to have done comprehensive tests and only trusted his own tests. But when asked for samples, all he did was link to someone elses post. :bsmilie:

This was the original post :
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=799332

Here he says :
"Yup... a personal test was done because I do not trust the results from tests done by others! Need to see with my own eyes. Very basic test i.e. same scene, same composition, same illumination, same lens and similar camera settings. "
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6701001&postcount=8

But further down the thread when asked about the results. This is the answer :
"Here is some comparison tests shot in RAW (courtesy Devorama) and compiled into a nicely organized ISO ladder in a single image for viewing convenience:
"
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6706053&postcount=39


Man! how to trust such a person!

Already inquired from Emjay. They will NOT exchange my K5 for another new unit.

What problem is it for?
If its for the stain issue, you are INCORRECT, since Riscal, Creampuff already sent their in for repair/exchange.
If its for some other issue, then you'll have to demonstrate the fault to the service center. Thats the rule everywhere and every brand, not just Pentax.

 

[WildCard081]

@sircam:

My apologies if I sound too blunt.
But are you being stupid or being stupid?

You claim to have proof about the K-5's 'list of major issues' based on an announcement by Amazon.de allegedly saying numerous negative feedback about the K-5.
You even nicely posted a link to a BabelFish translation to the announcement which, from my neutral eyes, reads as : Amazon advertises as selling A, ships to customers, customers receives B instead, all complain, Amazon stops while they fix this issue.

Or rather,

Amazon advertises as selling A+1, ships to customers, customers receives A+2 instead or A only, customers complain, Amazon stops while they fix this issue.

I hope that was simple enough explanation for you, or do you still need an executive summary printed in crayon on colored paper?

You claimed that Emjay did not do a one-to-one exchange for your K-5 for.... the inconsistent AF issue (which I pointed out did not seem to affect me in the earlier thread but seems to be a recognized issue) and show links to other Pentax forums which indicated a firmware update is in the works. So what did you expect Emjay to do? Change another K-5 for you with the same firmware and leaving you stuck with the same problem and still leave you bitching and whining (which is incidentally what the panicked D7000 users did and still got left with the problem on their n-th replacement cameras) or leave it until a firmware upgrade is up to fix the problem?

Sensor stains, already acknowledged by Pentax CEO, already narrowed down to QC issues from Sony and already being acted upon.
Local service centers are already moving to rectify this issue. As with overseas ones.

You complain about K-r requiring an adapter (very cheap, especially 3rd-party ones which works as good as OEM ones) to use your collection of rechargeable batteries.
And for that, you want to switch over to a Nikon, particularly D7000.
Which raises a point: you're willing to spend thousands on a new body but bitches and whines about a simple $20-$30 piece of plastic that would have solved the problem in the first place.
Gives to conclusions: you must be very rich but you sure have zero common-sense (or I'd put as -2EV on Common Sense settings).

Dude, let me give you a very piece of simple advice: because of these 'alleged' transgressions by Pentax to you that you want to switch to Nikon? PLEASE, do us and this community a BIG BIG favor and do so. The door is that way, and you can throw the K-r or K-x that you own away, preferably to someone here who appreciates a good camera, has a lot of good common-sense but no financial means.

Oh, BTW, your allegations about certain members here having special relationships with the distributor as quoted:

...a few regular K5 owners (who may be or seem to be on friendly terms with the local agent...

is hinging on defamation and likely to get you in major trouble. Not that I care, but someone might.

BTW, I was a former Canon user meself. I'm into Pentax for now for its value for money but I sure as hell don't hold a particular worship or allegiance for it. Heck I might even change to another brand if I feel the need.

End of the day, one image comes to my mind:

 

[sircam]

Interesting to note that both Riscal and Creampuff had their K5's affected by the other issue... K5 sensor stain issues that were rectified. Unfortunately, the same service center says I should wait. And I have been waiting all this while. Must admit it does not feel too comfortable when the waiting seems indefinite.

Yes... Pentax Japan does owe us an explanation + rectification... that's how I look at it. The sooner they did this, the better for all of us who are affected by the misfocus issue. I am also covered by warranty, you know... but what is the use when the local service center says I should wait :dunno: ?!?!?! When I ask for how long approximately... they shrug their shoulders. Can't really blame them, you know. I know its not their fault that I own a K5 with the misfocus issue... just as I know it isn't mine.

We are getting unnecessarily argumentative in here again. I think it would be wise and better for this forum to just stick to the main subject. Maybe the Amazon.de announcement was due to a simple database error... or maybe it wasn't. Time will soon throw more light upon this topic.

I am going to keep quiet and not argue about the first post in this thread any more. I already own a K5 and am using it... just not in very dim artificially lit conditions any more till I recognize that this issue is fixed upon subsequent testing. I feel victimized just for posting a simple piece of news I came across today... and which directly affects others like me i.e. those K5 users with bodies that have issues.

Its always the same type of hounding that we guys who criticize anything about Pentax receive in here... some of the names are common more often than not too. Some time last year I was hounded for not buying my second K-x body from the local guys. I bought it from overseas and the same pack lambasted me for doing so as if I was a traitor!

I tried to explain that Pentax still got my money in the end... but that wasn't enough... it should have been the local guys who should profit from my purchase... never mind the fact that the K-x was considerably more expensive in Sg when I bought it overseas. Guess what happened to that thread... it was locked abruptly too before others realized they could similarly get the K-x for considerably cheaper with just a few mouse clicks and a transferable warranty.

If this is not blatant bias and favoritism, I don't know what is. I just may take the trouble to point out such threads to the forum owners.

 

[CorneliusK]

I feel victimized just for posting a simple piece of news I came across today... and which directly affects others like me i.e. those K5 users with bodies that have issues.

You made a knee jerk post claiming that K-5 has so many issues that a major company like Amazon.de has to stop selling them, which turned out to be completely baseless.

 

[ricsal]

Interesting to note that both Riscal and Creampuff had their K5's affected by the other issue... K5 sensor stain issues that were rectified. Unfortunately, the same service center says I should wait. And I have been waiting all this while. Must admit it does not feel too comfortable when the waiting seems indefinite.

Yes... Pentax Japan does owe us an explanation + rectification... that's how I look at it. The sooner they did this, the better for all of us who are affected by the misfocus issue. I am also covered by warranty, you know... but what is the use when the local service center says I should wait :dunno: ?!?!?! When I ask for how long approximately... they shrug their shoulders. Can't really blame them, you know. I know its not their fault that I own a K5 with the misfocus issue... just as I know it isn't mine.

We are getting unnecessarily argumentative in here again. I think it would be wise and better for this forum to just stick to the main subject. Maybe the Amazon.de announcement was due to a simple database error... or maybe it wasn't. Time will soon throw more light upon this topic.

I am going to keep quiet and not argue about the first post in this thread any more. I already own a K5 and am using it... just not in very dim artificially lit conditions any more till I recognize that this issue is fixed upon subsequent testing. I feel victimized just for posting a simple piece of news I came across today... and which directly affects others like me i.e. those K5 users with bodies that have issues.

Its always the same type of hounding that we guys who criticize anything about Pentax receive in here... some of the names are common more often than not too. Some time last year I was hounded for not buying my second K-x body from the local guys. I bought it from overseas and the same pack lambasted me for doing so as if I was a traitor!

I tried to explain that Pentax still got my money in the end... but that wasn't enough... it should have been the local guys who should profit from my purchase... never mind the fact that the K-x was considerably more expensive in Sg when I bought it overseas. Guess what happened to that thread... it was locked abruptly too before others realized they could similarly get the K-x for considerably cheaper with just a few mouse clicks and a transferable warranty.

If this is not blatant bias and favoritism, I don't know what is. I just may take the trouble to point out such threads to the forum owners.

This post just showed how childish u are. Bring back old topics just to flaunt how u have been rediculed and victimised.

And do u read what has been written by us or ur just take note of the negative words we presented to u? did u see the AF Artificial light failure is probably Firmware? did u understand? Thats a reason why Emjay didnt do the exchange. Coz when I send my K5, he told me that they will always email to Pentax for solutions. So if Pentax said wait for update, u and the rest of us that uses K5(ur not the only one own a K5 in this world) will have to wait for the solutions. Since it takes this long, I would probably conclude its the Firmware. Go and email to Pentax. See what is their response.

 

[edutilos-]

Sircam,

Remember that when you stare into abyss, abyss stares into you.

While it may seem that a lot of people are always putting you down, remember that you seem to be on some personal rampage to prove that the K-5 is flawed. I think digging out something and positioning in such a way to prove your point is probably taking it too far.

understand that you have some issues with your camera. Take a step back, and re-read your posts sometimes, see if you could interpret them another way. As others have pointed out, amazon.de is still selling the K-5 body is some way. If it is indeed sensor stain or funny lighting issue, they would have pulled out every single product involving K-5 body. So perhaps at the very least you could try to see why your initial reading might be slightly off the mark... Unless the issues only affect stand alone K-5 body.

Perspective is everything. Same goes for things outside of photography.

Just enjoy shooting, that is what photography is about. I don't know what issues are affecting you but really, as you point out, you can take pictures well enough most of the time...

 

[flowerpot]

i think u have put ur point across... if there are anyone who has the same problem probably can mentioned as well, anyway ur problem is already made known to Emjay... just deal with them directly...

 

[fengwei]

Please don't try to insinuate that I am the only one who is "complaining and complaining." Look around on other sites as well and there are so many others you will soon lose count. Some members here (yourself included) hound us out when we try to discuss any problem with our equipment just because yours either doesn't suffer from it OR for some other reason perhaps.

Nobody here is complaining and complaining like you did here. And I don't understand why you keep complaining, and you can't prove what you said with your own tests, so I can only interpret them as trolling.

And when I point out that many others are also globally complaining about the same issue that I am facing, you literally tell me to "go away" and lock the thread. I felt your behavior on the other thread which you locked just after a few posts was borderline rude and unwarranted. Maybe if there was a 'freer' atmosphere in here, others would highlight their problems more freely as well.

Pls read your own posts again and see why I suggested you to go away. It's for your own good. If you are not happy with a brand and its service, just leave. There is nothing wrong about this. But if you keep complaining, it's annoying like trolling. Look at the others who responded here, not many people like what you've posted here. Have you seen me closing any others' threads? Never, but yours only. Why? Because I don't like you trolling and whining around here, and it's against the forum rules to troll like what you did.

I do not want to argue 'senselessly'. When I checked amazon.de myself after reading about this on another site today morning (not RiceHigh's site) I posted my findings to share with others here. The same message still shows up for me. I didn't check for the K5 sold as a kit. I didn't buy my K5 as a kit either.

Thanks to the input of others here, I am feeling much more relieved now that not all K5 units are withheld. It does seem plausible that it could be a database error as someone suggested it might. But, then again, such database errors are easily fixed rapidly enough and there is no real need to post such a 'loud' warning. There could be more to this issue than either of us here is aware of. We can "only surmise" since we are not employed at amazon.de. I guess time will throw more light upon this. Maybe the auto-translation should also be taken with a pinch of salt. None of us can be 100% sure unless we are fluent in German.

But look at your first post, you were very certain that amazon.de stopped selling K5 because of many unhappy K5 customers. When you see some negative info about K5/Kr, you just can't help but spreading it out. You are the only smart one here, aren't you?

That is what this forum should be about. Open minded discussion. We are sometimes the informers and sometimes the ones who get informed. Both sides opinions have to be discussed in order for this to happen. As it is we are a much smaller community here and we should, as a consequence, be even more open minded.

Have you ever seen me stopping any open minded discussion? Never. Why I closed your threads only? Please read what you wrote there and think HARD!

I don't mind you closing threads if any one is trolling or is being unnecessarily rude. A look at my posting history will speak up for me whether I generally come across as rude or as a troll.

No need to insinuate, be verbal or rude. Why get so defensive everytime someone posts some complaints or personal opinions which do not match yours? Peace.

Again, have you ever seen me closing any other thread other than yours? Because I think you are trolling, which is against the forum rules.

Please don't contest with me again. It's also against the forum rules to contest any mod/admin. We are doing our best to make Pentax forum a happy place for most Pentaxians, not to entertain whiners like you.

If you keep replying like this, I can do nothing but close the thread, again.