A rather stupid question


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TME

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#1
I'm going to ask a stupid question, so please dun laugh. But if u can help, please do.... :D

Many of the DSLRs on the market do not use full frame sensors and so there is a crop factor. That affects the effective focal length of the 35mm lens that was designed for film bodies.

My question is if there a crop factor and TTL is what-u-see-is-what-u-get (almost), is then what u see in the viewfinder what u actually get in your shots (taking into consideration that your viewfinder may not be 100%). How is what u see related to the crop factor? Also the crop factor changes the perspective of the view (so I am told) but do u get to see it through the viewfinder? I sorry if I sound confused cos I really am confused.... thanks! :embrass:
 

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#2
i thot they crop the viewfinder too...

comsumer range SLRs with a 90% crop people make space by guessing?


Cos like the DSLR, SD 10 and SD 9 by sigma, they greyed out the uncaptured border of the viewfinder... and named it a "sportsfinder" as u can see beyond the frame and compose. Never the less the non-greyed out area is 100%.

hope it helps.
 

TME

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Woah! Is that so? That is interesting.... I never noticed it when I was using a borrowed D30..... so I was just wondering what was the effect when u viewed through the viewfinder.... thanks! Any others?
 

oeyvind

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#5
What you got on the viewfinder is abt 95%-100% of what you can get from your sensor.

P.S. As I know now, only EOS 1D, 1Ds, 1D Mk II and D2H has 100% viewfinder.
 

clive

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SLR/DSLR viewfinder even if its 90+% its negligible from 100% ie practically no difference

the FLM crop factor of DSLR together with a practically 100% viewfinder => essentially the only so called "difference " u get to se is the FLM only lor. ^_^
 

TME

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#8
FLM = ??? Sorry dun get what u mean...
 

Larry

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the viewfinder is proportionately smaller, following the size of the "film" (for digital, this means the sensor). if you have the opportunity, take a look through any film SLR viewfinder and then through a DSLR (other than the full-frame ones like 14n and 1Ds). you'd notice that the viewfinder's area is much smaller.

this is one reason why many find it much harder to manual focus on a DSLR compared to film.
 

TME

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#12
Larry said:
the viewfinder is proportionately smaller, following the size of the "film" (for digital, this means the sensor). if you have the opportunity, take a look through any film SLR viewfinder and then through a DSLR (other than the full-frame ones like 14n and 1Ds). you'd notice that the viewfinder's area is much smaller.

this is one reason why many find it much harder to manual focus on a DSLR compared to film.

Oh!! No wonder I found it so hard to use the D30's viewfinder (borrowed). I was quite put off by the small size and dimness of the viewfinder. I'm not sure if the brightness of the viewfinder but since u mention it, then the smallness in size must be due to the sensor size..... thanks a lot for the explanation!!!

Does it mean that full frame DSLRs have same size viewfinders as their equivalent film counterparts? Like the Canon 1D (did I get the model right?). I'm not a Canon user.
 

Larry

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TME said:
Oh!! No wonder I found it so hard to use the D30's viewfinder (borrowed). I was quite put off by the small size and dimness of the viewfinder. I'm not sure if the brightness of the viewfinder but since u mention it, then the smallness in size must be due to the sensor size..... thanks a lot for the explanation!!!

Does it mean that full frame DSLRs have same size viewfinders as their equivalent film counterparts? Like the Canon 1D (did I get the model right?). I'm not a Canon user.
it's the 1Ds, not 1D. 1D still has 1.3x FLM. and yes you got it right, full frame DSLRs have the same size viewfinders as 35mm film SLRs AFAIK, although there are ways to improve the visibility of smaller viewfinders if my optical knowledge isn't totally off-track (e.g. using better glass, maginification, etc.).
 

TME

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#14
Larry said:
it's the 1Ds, not 1D. 1D still has 1.3x FLM. and yes you got it right, full frame DSLRs have the same size viewfinders as 35mm film SLRs AFAIK, although there are ways to improve the visibility of smaller viewfinders if my optical knowledge isn't totally off-track (e.g. using better glass, maginification, etc.).

I see..... thanks! I'm just hoping that the upcoming 7D from Minolta would have a viewfinder as good as the 7... haiz... :)
 

Jed

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#15
clive said:
SLR/DSLR viewfinder even if its 90+% its negligible from 100% ie practically no difference
Assume 92% viewfinder. And a 6 million pixel camera. That means you're not seeing 480 000 of your camera's pixels, or very nearly half a million. Or you're losing approximately 55 pixels on the short side and 90 pixels on the long side.

Practically no difference?
 

Jed

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#16
Actually, in terms of viewfinder, a lot depends on various factors. Magnification of the viewfinder, the type and quality of the focusing screen. My 14n viewfinder is useless, I'd take the smaller D2h finder over the 14n any day.
 

TME

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#17
Jed said:
Actually, in terms of viewfinder, a lot depends on various factors. Magnification of the viewfinder, the type and quality of the focusing screen. My 14n viewfinder is useless, I'd take the smaller D2h finder over the 14n any day.

Wow 14n viewfinder not good enough.. care to share what's not so good about it?

Pardon my ignorance, what is a focussing screen? And what does it do? Thanks!
 

justarius

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#18
TME said:
Wow 14n viewfinder not good enough.. care to share what's not so good about it?

Pardon my ignorance, what is a focussing screen? And what does it do? Thanks!
I may be wrong, but..

A focussing screen, as it name suggest, is there to help you focus. This is more important when you use MF camera as opposed to AF. In the higher end AF SLR and most MF SLR allows you to switch focussing screens depending on your need. For example, you can have fresnel screen, ground glass screen, split microprism screen, screen with gridlines, etc. Some screens are to allow higher degree of accuracy in manual focussing, others help in composition, another screen might be designed to aid in microphotography. The Nikon F5 has 14 different focussing screens...
 

Jed

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#19
The 14n has the viewfinder of a S$600 body, specifically the F80. The D1 series are based on the much higher spec and more expensive F100s, and the D2h is designed from the ground up to professional specifications. I have major trouble working with the 14n, none whatsoever with the professional bodies.

Focusing screens come in different sorts, modern ones tend to focus (no pun intended) on brightness to aid auto focusing systems, although the F80 screen is neither bright nor contrasty compared to the better screens. Older MF cameras had contrasty screens to aid visual focusing.
 

#20
TME,

You almost get what you see in a dslr such as 10D. If I am not wrong after post-processing you'll find you get more image area than you see in the viewfinder. This sometimes makes precise tight cropping a bit difficult.

I have always used a 50mm macro for majority of my works. I have a habit of working from a set distance in a small backroom. These days with the 1.4 factor I find my composition is leaning towards tighter croping or croping of part of the subject for impact. This is not altogether a bad thing.

I am now looking for a 28mm lens to bring me back to close to the normal 50mm view that I am used to. Also with an extension tube it would give me a shallower depth of view which I am fond of.

We don't have the depth of pockets to keep changing the cameras. We just have to work with the limitation and the limitation sometimes produces a pleasant surprise or two.
 

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