a more open discussion: CLEANING UP


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night86mare

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#1
I believe it all boils down to awareness. If it was made known publicly, I guess alot of people will support the cause !!
faq&feedback thread here

what i posted:

we've heard so much in recent months about how organisers are bad, can improve...

how models are bad, can improve....

after all, this is a photographers' community, that is to be expected. but while many may have left the happy days of new paper glory behind, and others are still beating their dead horses, and frankly speaking, after all that uproar and crying...

i wonder why no one has addressed the issue of people levying accusations of "photographers" HERE, in our COMMUNITY, lurking, and going around pestering models for extra services, for shots that they are not willing to do (for personal reasons, or whatever).

i keep hearing about such things, it has always been mentioned in passing, in news, in blogs, in here, even ,but it seems like no one is bothering to do anything about it; it seems that it has become just a "part of life" here.

i also understand that clubsnap can only do so much, and that yada yada yada, even if we bother, there are other avenues, etc etc etc. but i'm sure someone here can come up with some sort of a suggestion to curtail and limit, if not eradicate such nonsensical occurences.

clean the sleaze? perhaps for once, we should start with ourselves.

anyways, i have been thinking.. but nothing really seems viable, after all, even if you limit the services section to registered members so that the models would for sure, be able to demand a user nickname that can possibly be verified (and thus at least there is some form of viable footprint or tracking to be done, if such harassment occurs)...

but at least it will solve the problem HERE , in clubsnap. if the jokers contact via elsewhere, that is another problem, but at least WE, as a community, have done our part to try to keep it clean.

what do you guys think?
:bsmilie:
 

Pablo

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Sep 1, 2004
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#5
I had mentioned elsewhere a suggestion to have members (photographers) that join a shoot sign an agreement.

Sign an agreement along with their phone number and maybe address of contact.

This was not taken well .... "people would not want to and would go elsewhere"

My view on this is that any photographer that had nothing to hide and was dedicated to shooting, would not be worried to sign.

The only people that would hesitate are those that have something to hide.

If you are dedicated to the photography, why would you refuse to sign a disclaimer ?

State on the bottom of the form "You will not be contacted about up comming shoots unless wou wish to"

All information is kept here and not sold on.

Something to that degree ????

Yes, people can still abuse the model shoot even though they have given bogus information, but, it will deterr many that need to be deterred.

I for one. If I wanted to join in a model shoot here and was asked to sign such a paper, I would not hesitate as long as it was stated that I recieve no advertizing.

I go to various photo sessions throught the year by many Camera companies and at each one they know everything about me and I have to sign for it.

I do not have a problem with it.

Cheers :)
 

night86mare

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#6
is this one better??

:cry: you bully me

anyways, like i said earlier,

MAYBE we should make services offered a "members only viewable" section,

i.e. that you need to be a REGISTERED MEMBER to view the threads

and therefore, the models there who offer shoots/tfcd on private basis (since organised shoots have the organisers to handle such issues and act as middlemen) can always demand and be able to see the username of the person contacting them.

there can also be a plausible system to verify this, like perhaps, the threadstarter can see which member has viewed his/her thread and therefore impersonation is not so easy.

as to what this will achieve, this will definitely dissuade less of such occurences, since most of these jokers are usually cowards who hide behind fake email/msn accounts.. once they need to provide some form of possible tracking/accountability, it will dissuade them.

i'm sure all the people who are gentlemen will not mind the extra trouble, if they are serious about photogrpahy and nothing else too raunchy;

and i'm sure the models won't mind, after all... they get a lot less trouble. at the same time, this may have the unintended bonus of dissuading the rare category of model who is just here to fool around. :bsmilie:
 

night86mare

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#7
Yes, people can still abuse the model shoot even though they have given bogus information, but, it will deterr many that need to be deterred.
precisely my point.

also, clubsnap , i think, has the ability to track ip address.

you can say, yes, there are many ways around this, but believe me, i think this will prove too much of a hassle for the small-time perverts. probably eliminate majority of the problem.
 

Pablo

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#9
:cry: you bully me

anyways, like i said earlier,

MAYBE we should make services offered a "members only viewable" section,

i.e. that you need to be a REGISTERED MEMBER to view the threads

and therefore, the models there who offer shoots/tfcd on private basis (since organised shoots have the organisers to handle such issues and act as middlemen) can always demand and be able to see the username of the person contacting them.

there can also be a plausible system to verify this, like perhaps, the threadstarter can see which member has viewed his/her thread and therefore impersonation is not so easy.

as to what this will achieve, this will definitely dissuade less of such occurences, since most of these jokers are usually cowards who hide behind fake email/msn accounts.. once they need to provide some form of possible tracking/accountability, it will dissuade them.

i'm sure all the people who are gentlemen or women or goats will not mind the extra trouble, if they are serious about photogrpahy and nothing else too raunchy;

and i'm sure the models won't mind, after all... they get a lot less trouble. at the same time, this may have the unintended bonus of dissuading the rare category of model who is just here to fool around. :bsmilie:
I agree totally :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

cheryl852

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Mar 30, 2009
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#10
:cry: you bully me

anyways, like i said earlier,

MAYBE we should make services offered a "members only viewable" section,

i.e. that you need to be a REGISTERED MEMBER to view the threads

and therefore, the models there who offer shoots/tfcd on private basis (since organised shoots have the organisers to handle such issues and act as middlemen) can always demand and be able to see the username of the person contacting them.

there can also be a plausible system to verify this, like perhaps, the threadstarter can see which member has viewed his/her thread and therefore impersonation is not so easy.

as to what this will achieve, this will definitely dissuade less of such occurences, since most of these jokers are usually cowards who hide behind fake email/msn accounts.. once they need to provide some form of possible tracking/accountability, it will dissuade them.

i'm sure all the people who are gentlemen will not mind the extra trouble, if they are serious about photogrpahy and nothing else too raunchy;

and i'm sure the models won't mind, after all... they get a lot less trouble. at the same time, this may have the unintended bonus of dissuading the rare category of model who is just here to fool around. :bsmilie:
I agree with this part. The "personal services offered" threads should be restricted in such a way that only registered members can view the threads. my guess is that if this rule is implemented, the chances of receiving "non photography related" emails will be lesser as most CSers here are really people whom are into photography. but of course, there will be exceptions as well but this will bring down the chances of receiving "non photography related" PMS/emails.

and do you all think we should start a thread and putting up all the emails of "potential clients" whom are perverts or people not interested in photography and go MIA or ask for "extra services"? :think:
 

night86mare

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#11
I agree totally :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
faint, i see the blue part...
I agree with this part. The "personal services offered" threads should be restricted in such a way that only registered members can view the threads. my guess is that if this rule is implemented, the chances of receiving "non photography related" emails will be lesser as most CSers here are really people whom are into photography. but of course, there will be exceptions as well but this will bring down the chances of receiving "non photography related" PMS/emails.

and do you all think we should start a thread and putting up all the emails of "potential clients" whom are perverts or people not interested in photography and go MIA or ask for "extra services"? :think:
i have to agree with the part in red. assuming this is true then, then i can't see any trouble with this, since it is just a matter of tracking and accountability.

at least, i would think the ones who are thinking of using photography to socialise and an alternative form of SDU will not be so bold as to suggest extra services, or harass models to that extent.

note that i am not trying to embark on a witch hunt here, i just think that as a community, we should all protect the interests of all members, whether it is photographer, organiser, or model. i do hope that SOMETHING will come out of this, instead of just always all talk no action, a lot of promises but nothing comes out of it in the end but a locked thread with a lot of chatting.
 

night86mare

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#15
and I also agree with Pablo, ones should not try to hide their real identity for engaging a shoot, regardless is in a group or private shoot.
yes, unless they have something to hide

it is just a name, and after all, if people know your name, easier to work with, because once again, there is a certain level of trust, etc.
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
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#17
I agree with this part. The "personal services offered" threads should be restricted in such a way that only registered members can view the threads. my guess is that if this rule is implemented, the chances of receiving "non photography related" emails will be lesser as most CSers here are really people whom are into photography. but of course, there will be exceptions as well but this will bring down the chances of receiving "non photography related" PMS/emails.

and do you all think we should start a thread and putting up all the emails of "potential clients" whom are perverts or people not interested in photography and go MIA or ask for "extra services"? :think:
is there a way to verify what have posted in the thread is The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth?

 

night86mare

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#18
what if CS were to be made into a forum where if you're not a registered/verified member, you cannot see any posts at all?
i do not think the admin will want that, actually

for one thing, it is going to lower viewership.

it can be done, btw, i know it can be done, it's just a matter of whether people want to push it through or not.
 

night86mare

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#19
is there a way to verify what have posted in the thread is The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth?

yes, that is the trouble.

i suggested in the faq thread that a moderator with TRUSTWORTHY CHARACTER (i.e. with emphasis on impartiality, preferably one not involved in model shoots and ongoings, lest his pals or buddies or himself is implicated) be charged with the task of posting this,

this will serve 2 purposes:

1) give the people who want to complain anonymity, so that they can feel more charged with the confidence of being able to feedback without fear of retribution

2) screening of whether claims made are true or not, with relevant evidence having to be submitted (i.e. verification of bad pm, along with msn chat logs as evidence)
 

catchlights

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#20
what if CS were to be made into a forum where if you're not a registered/verified member, you cannot see any posts at all?
FYI, only registered members can view our Portraits and Poses forum.

and so far nobody complaint about this, and I think many members also support about this.
 

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