A case of double standard


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joeyao

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Oct 27, 2004
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#1
Came across this thread recently: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=2384380#post2384380

I quote from the moderator: "Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all."

But when I clicked on the link to his gallery, I see this: http://www.pbase.com/chngpe01/baya_weaver&page=all

Photographs of nesting birds not encouraged?
 

hazekang

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Aug 29, 2004
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#2
seems like he means taking them with 50mm lenses r not advised, but can shoot with big big 500mm lens.

is tat the double standard u mean?
 

Jason Ho

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Jan 17, 2002
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#3
joeyao said:
Came across this thread recently: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=2384380#post2384380

I quote from the moderator: "Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all."

But when I clicked on the link to his gallery, I see this: http://www.pbase.com/chngpe01/baya_weaver&page=all

Photographs of nesting birds not encouraged?
Next time please quote in full context of the case you referring to. Missing information (which I highlighted in bold below) are always the cause of misunderstanding.

chngpe01 said:
This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens. Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all.

I understand you are a newbie hence it is good to take note of this.

CS together with other nature photography forum and birding groups and Nparks are drafting a code of ethics for nature photographers or photographers when taking pictures of birds and animal. We will be posting this soon in this forum.

I will lock this thread
Hope this clears up your "double standards" concern.
 

chngpe01

Moderator
Staff member
#4
Hi Joe

I know you always have issues with me. And have been stalking me, my website etc. I guess it is probably out of jealousy etc or the desire to be a better nature photographer(than me) but unable to become one because of the lack of whatever it takes.

In the early years I was actually kind enough to give you encouragement and comments when you posted your crappy pictures in CS but this is the type of things you give back.

Actually the main reason why I have not been taking nature photo for quite some time was precisely of ppl like you.

Anyway the key word is "not encouraged"

Apparently you still do not understand nature photography enough to post this type of comments.

1. In the recent picture in CS ( http://forums.clubsnap.com/showthread.php?t=215638 )the nest was taken with a 50mm lens imagine how close it is. Any photographer will know how close this is, not to mention an experienced nature photographer like you ( no wonder you still have a long way to go in nature photography )

As a moderator and the TS being new, I took the responsibility to guide the TS, instead of doing nothing or worse still finding fault with the one(me) who try to create awareness to newbies


As for my pictures:

1. If you can read exif files those were taken more than 1 years ago and was using a 500mm lens with tele-converters too, (for newbies and some experienced nature photographer who do not know about lenses; this is a long super tele-photo lens that allow you to take from a further distance about 15m or more away for a small subject like a bird).

Even that, since last year-till now, I have chosen not to take any pictures of Baya Weaver or nesting birds, because I learn from others about not being encouraged to take nesting birds. Though many have flocked to take nesting birds at various sites and trample the grounds at the various nature reserves in Singapore.


Anyway, Thank You for opening this thread and giving me the opportunity to show my pbase site as well as reveal what type of person you are and I am.

Post what you may here in your reply as I will and having been ignoring you since a quite some time ago.

To the other readers, my stand is clear as with other nature forums, getting a guide on posting of nesting birds. ie. posting of nesting birds are "Not Encouraged"

To many aspiring nature photographers take note that the welfare of the subject is more important than getting the image. And that in nature photography there are also the ugly side of it as you have just witness ie. the politics of nature photography.

Have a good day (that does to you too Joe)

Thank You

PE
 

benedium

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Jun 19, 2004
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#6
Some jokers don't realise why they feel 'hate' or 'dislike' for others. They don't think enough, or they are just delusional with some mental imbalances plus low IQ. I recommend they check themselves into a mental hospital.
 

mervin

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Dec 26, 2004
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#7
Perhaps Joe didn't "see" the "50mm" or else I'm sure he could not have posted this. ;)

This could all be just a misunderstanding.
 

student

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2004
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#8
CS is full of people who for whatever reasons, whether justified or not, stalk others for the purpose to try to ridicule and insult others.

I wonder if CS has a policy to deal with these types?
 

benedium

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#9
student said:
CS is full of people who for whatever reasons, whether justified or not, stalk others for the purpose to try to ridicule and insult others.

I wonder if CS has a policy to deal with these types?
Hope you don't mean me...? :embrass: :angel:
 

student

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2004
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#10
benedium said:
Hope you don't mean me...? :embrass: :angel:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Not at all!

But there are types who do just that!

Not so much to give alternative viewpoints/differring opinions/comments, but to denigrate others!
 

zac08

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2005
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#11
Hmmmm... this is a sad thing. Why dun some ppl understand the difference of shooting close-range and shooting from a distance??

I normally would not encourage anyone trying to snap bird nests closer than 5m away. You may frighten them away and they may abandon the nest...
 

AReality

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Jun 9, 2003
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#12
From another POV, if the bird's nest is in your house, should we stand 15m away from it, or ignore it, or remove it?

I once had a nest outside my door, didn't know wat to do with it.


.
 

Del_CtrlnoAlt

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Feb 15, 2003
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#13
AReality said:
From another POV, if the bird's nest is in your house, should we stand 15m away from it, or ignore it, or remove it?

I once had a nest outside my door, didn't know wat to do with it.


.
next time put in a cage, then feed it, and then train it to sing some songs... otherwise, ask them to spit more, u can have the bird's nest. :sweatsm:
 

zac08

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Feb 21, 2005
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#14
AReality said:
From another POV, if the bird's nest is in your house, should we stand 15m away from it, or ignore it, or remove it?

I once had a nest outside my door, didn't know wat to do with it.


.
If it's IN YOUR HOUSE, then you decide what to do with it. But those in the wild, please do respect it's privacy and allow it it's space...
 

AReality

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#15
zac08 said:
If it's IN YOUR HOUSE, then you decide what to do with it. But those in the wild, please do respect it's privacy and allow it it's space...
It was there for a few days, then everything suddenly disappeared. Think someone removed it while cleaning the area.

Should've kept it though.


.
 

eikin

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2004
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#19
Del_CtrlnoAlt said:
next time put in a cage, then feed it, and then train it to sing some songs... otherwise, ask them to spit more, u can have the bird's nest. :sweatsm:
hey i got bird's nest leh :sweatsm: when i was young there was a huge bougainvillea tree (yes not bush!) at the corridor infront of my flat, then some humming birds came to nest. but later on the flat needed to be painted and the plant had to be cut, so i kept the nest lor, very interesting, all kinds of stuff in the nest :sweat:
 

joeyao

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2004
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#20
I never expected my comments to give rise to such strong emotions, reactions and wrath.

Jason Ho said:
Next time please quote in full context of the case you referring to. Missing information (which I highlighted in bold below) are always the cause of misunderstanding.



Hope this clears up your "double standards" concern.
I have read and re-read PE's comments. Perhaps my grasp of the English language is not so good but I did not find any link between this statement "This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens." and the rest of his comments. I interpret this statement "This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens." as a stand alone statement. Of course, I may be wrong. In the entire context of his comments, the statements "Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all."
has to be read separately. If not he would have written "Taking of nesting birds up close or with short lenses are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird."

Therefore I did not mislead in any way when I left out the statement "This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens."

chngpe01 said:
I know you always have issues with me. And have been stalking me, my website etc. I guess it is probably out of jealousy etc or the desire to be a better nature photographer(than me) but unable to become one because of the lack of whatever it takes.
Only once regarding the BTBE location at Marina Cove. Avian photography is only a hobby to me and I certainly do not have any intention to usurp you. In fact a fellow avian photog commented recently that my skill is crap and that some of my pics looked so so because of technology. Jealousy? Nah...

chngpe01 said:
In the early years I was actually kind enough to give you encouragement and comments when you posted your crappy pictures in CS but this is the type of things you give back.
Thank you. Indeed your images had inspired me to better my skills.

chngpe01 said:
Actually the main reason why I have not been taking nature photo for quite some time was precisely of ppl like you.
Its a pity then. Your excellent images can inspire other budding avian photogs just as they had inspired me. Wow! a crappy photog like me caused you to stop your love for avian photography?

chngpe01 said:
Anyway the key word is "not encouraged"
Meaning we still can shoot nesting birds?

Well, it is good to know that you are now convicted not to shoot any nesting birds be it far or near. As for me, my conviction is that it is all right to shoot them if you do not endanger them and not destroy the habitat in order to shoot them.

If you truly from hence forth will not shoot nesting birds, I salute and apologise to you.

For those who think nesting birds will be spooked because we get too close to them, here is something for you guys to ponder:

Shot with 16-35mm lens: 4 White-Rumped Shama chicks


All 4 chicks fledged and flew off
 

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