How to play/ edit 4K videos from 5DM4 on Mac?

[pro_FHM]

I just bought a canon 5DM4.
shot some 4K videos.
However, when i played back on my macbook pro, the video is laggy.
I'm using the macbook pro 13inch late-2013
I brought a thumb drive and tried out on all the latest computers at the Apple store.
macbook pro 13 & 15 inch, iMac all couldn't play the video smoothly.
QuickTime Player & iMovie all show laggy video.

To all the pros shooting 4K videos with 5DM4, how do u view your videos? or even edit them?
Appreciate your enlightenment

 

[Bamboopictures]

I just bought a canon 5DM4.
shot some 4K videos.
However, when i played back on my macbook pro, the video is laggy.
I'm using the macbook pro 13inch late-2013
I brought a thumb drive and tried out on all the latest computers at the Apple store.
macbook pro 13 & 15 inch, iMac all couldn't play the video smoothly.
QuickTime Player & iMovie all show laggy video.

To all the pros shooting 4K videos with 5DM4, how do u view your videos? or even edit them?
Appreciate your enlightenment

A thumbdrive is not fast enough for editing 4K video. You can copy the media to your internal SSD drive first.
If you don;t have enough internal storage, consider using Samsung's USB SSD or get an external thunderbolt drive.

 

[kandinsky]

I've read some suggestions that you can try Canon's own EOS MOVIE Utility that is optimized for reading MJPEG files http://support-th.canon-asia.com/contents/TH/EN/0200527402.html

Yeah, could have to do with the fact that the 5DM4 4K footage is MJPEG at 500/Mbps, quite disk intensive? You can try opening your Activity Monitor to see where the bottleneck might be? Whether memory/disk/processor. Sometimes it's a combination of all.

In this thread, there's a discussion about it, and the original poster said he/she found a player that worked for them: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4119054

Pros usually use a workflow that involves transcoding to an intermediate codec or proxy editing, if their system/NLE doesn't support the native format, or isn't sufficiently capable technically.

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/how-to/proxy-media.html
https://www.all-things-photography.com/blog/proxy-editing-with-the-5d-mark-iv-and-sony-vegas-pro/

 

[pro_FHM]

A thumbdrive is not fast enough for editing 4K video. You can copy the media to your internal SSD drive first.
If you don;t have enough internal storage, consider using Samsung's USB SSD or get an external thunderbolt drive.

For my own macbook pro, I am playing the video from my internal SSD. It cannot play smoothly.
Since I'm testing on the display mac in the store, don't think they will allow me to upload my video into their computer.
so I would like to seek advice from pros here using 5DM4.
U don't encounter any problems??

 

[pro_FHM]

I've read some suggestions that you can try Canon's own EOS MOVIE Utility that is optimized for reading MJPEG files http://support-th.canon-asia.com/contents/TH/EN/0200527402.html

Yeah, could have to do with the fact that the 5DM4 4K footage is MJPEG at 500/Mbps, quite disk intensive? You can try opening your Activity Monitor to see where the bottleneck might be? Whether memory/disk/processor. Sometimes it's a combination of all.

In this thread, there's a discussion about it, and the original poster said he/she found a player that worked for them: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4119054

Pros usually use a workflow that involves transcoding to an intermediate codec or proxy editing, if their system/NLE doesn't support the native format, or isn't sufficiently capable technically.

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/how-to/proxy-media.html
https://www.all-things-photography.com/blog/proxy-editing-with-the-5d-mark-iv-and-sony-vegas-pro/

That's what I'm doing now. I have to change every 4K video i shoot from MJPEG to .H264
But by changing the video codec, will there be quality loss? this i can't find an answer from the internet.

 

[kandinsky]

With file size reduction, of course there is loss. The key is whether it is perceptible. It's like you have a jpg at 100%. If you save it at 90%, is the quality loss perceptible? You are in control. It's up to you to control the amount of loss, to the point where it is still satisfactory, at the file size you want. Much of the streaming content you view is delivered in h264 too.

It depends what you are doing with your files though. What is your intent? Are you editing or just converting for viewing and that's it?

In a proper workflow, the proxy files are only used for the edit, when it comes to exporting the final file, the original files are still the source. So since they serve as the 'negative', your final video is still being exported from your highest res source. So at the point of export, you're in control and you can optimize for the balance of quality/size that you want.

 

[Dan]

4k require certain amount of hardware in order to work properly...
It is no point having a high resolution file and the hardware cannot support..
Yes, there's a work around, but sooner or later you have to decide which path you want to go..
Either work on a reduce resolution or improve the hardware.
A lot of videographer still uses 1080 or 2k during recording... still look good and the storage is not heavy...
Whilst 4k requires heavy and fast storage on all counts... media, reader, computer, drive....

I just bought a canon 5DM4.
shot some 4K videos.
However, when i played back on my macbook pro, the video is laggy.
I'm using the macbook pro 13inch late-2013
I brought a thumb drive and tried out on all the latest computers at the Apple store.
macbook pro 13 & 15 inch, iMac all couldn't play the video smoothly.
QuickTime Player & iMovie all show laggy video.

To all the pros shooting 4K videos with 5DM4, how do u view your videos? or even edit them?
Appreciate your enlightenment

 

[pro_FHM]

With file size reduction, of course there is loss. The key is whether it is perceptible. It's like you have a jpg at 100%. If you save it at 90%, is the quality loss perceptible? You are in control. It's up to you to control the amount of loss, to the point where it is still satisfactory, at the file size you want. Much of the streaming content you view is delivered in h264 too.

It depends what you are doing with your files though. What is your intent? Are you editing or just converting for viewing and that's it?

In a proper workflow, the proxy files are only used for the edit, when it comes to exporting the final file, the original files are still the source. So since they serve as the 'negative', your final video is still being exported from your highest res source. So at the point of export, you're in control and you can optimize for the balance of quality/size that you want.

Thanks for your advice!
Do u have any recommended video codec converter?

 

[pro_FHM]

4k require certain amount of hardware in order to work properly...
It is no point having a high resolution file and the hardware cannot support..
Yes, there's a work around, but sooner or later you have to decide which path you want to go..
Either work on a reduce resolution or improve the hardware.
A lot of videographer still uses 1080 or 2k during recording... still look good and the storage is not heavy...
Whilst 4k requires heavy and fast storage on all counts... media, reader, computer, drive....

From what i read online, it seems the problem is with video codec, which affects the smooth playback.
Do u have any suggestions on what hardware I need to possess to play the video smoothly?
I'm using MacBook Pro.

 

[Bamboopictures]

Motion JPEG is a very old codec (read early 90s quicktime) not designed for 4K. Canon implemented it in the 5DM4 to DISCOURAGE buyers from using the 5D as a video camera.
The excuse or reason given was that because Motion JPEG does not use temporaral compression, photographers can get much better still frame grabs. At that time, 4K was the key selling point of the Canon Cinema range.

There is little point in upgrading to a iMac Pro just to muck around with a codec that no camera uses. Instead, resign yourself to converting the prehistoric Motion Jpeg into Prores for editing on FCPX or iMovie.

 

[Dan]

I suggest this...
if you can find any 4k video from another brand... maybe a few model... try it on your macbook...
If it can play then, is not the hardware... probably is the codex as the other member has said.

To what I can see, play shouldn't be a problem.. the problem is editing and rendering...
The newer macbook can do 4k edit in FCPX without much issue but don't go beyond that..

From what i read online, it seems the problem is with video codec, which affects the smooth playback.
Do u have any suggestions on what hardware I need to possess to play the video smoothly?
I'm using MacBook Pro.

 

[kandinsky]

Thanks for your advice!
Do u have any recommended video codec converter?

If you plan to edit them, I would use the native transcoding feature in the NLE, for the reasons described above.

If just converting for viewing (e.g. on mobile devices), there are some suggestions here: https://medium.com/@PoloPinetta/dealing-with-canon-5d-mark-iv-4k-video-20fbacf545e5

If just viewing on the computer, just use the Canon utility to view.

For those curious about what the MJPEG files from the 5DM4 are like, and wanna test it on your own system, that same link points to a site with a sample file for download: http://www.photographyblog.com/previews/canon_eos_5d_mark_iv_photos/

Loaded it on my desktop (i6800K, 32GB ram)

With file on a samsung 250gb SSD
VLC - Choppy playback, no discernable resource issues (CPU 10-15% / Memory 30% / Disk 10-15%)
Windows Media Player - Smooth playback (CPU utilization goes up to 40-50%, Memory same, Disk goes up to 40-70)

With file on a 7200k 2tb HDD
WMP - Smooth for a bit then becomes choppy (CPU 50-60%, Memory same / Disk hits 100%)

So from this I'd say it taxes the disk more than the CPU, and VLC is poorly optimized for MJPEG as the system resources are all low. A guess would be that perhaps WMP, being a default player, probably has better support for more legacy formats such as MJPEG.

 

[pro_FHM]

Thanks everyone for your inputs!
I realised if i convert to prores codec, the file is as big as the canon MPEG one.
When I convert to .H264, the file size is much smaller.

Is the quality loss by converting to .H264 much more than to prores?

If i shoot 4K and then export as .H264,
is the video quality better or worse than if I shoot HD with original file from canon 5DM4?

I edit using iMovie.
Haven't learn how to use FCPX. Is there SkillsFuture course for this program? :bsmilie:

 

[Bamboopictures]

There are several flavors of ProRes. From the highest data rate PRORES 4444 to most compressed PRORES Proxy.
If you are using IMmovie to edit, just let iMmovie ingest the clips at its native data rate This will give you the best chance of getting smooth playback. Use a fast SSD as your scratch disk.
If your system is still not able to playback the 4K smoothy inside iMovie, you will have to decide whether it's feasilble to edit in 4K without being 100% frame-accurate or transcode all the assets to 1080p and just work in a 1080p timeline instead.

 

[kandinsky]

Is the quality loss by converting to .H264 much more than to prores?

If i shoot 4K and then export as .H264,
is the video quality better or worse than if I shoot HD with original file from canon 5DM4?

Quality loss - Yes, but it is subjective. Best is for you to do your own test. Convert to both. Then compare the files.

Again, with quality, it is subjective. I think the main difference here is that in 4K, you have the crop factor but your footage is in 4K, more room to play with if you want to recompose or crop. In HD, you don't have the crop factor, so you're looking at two very different outputs. Depends on what you want. Again, it's best to do your own test and compare for yourself. This is what most of us do when confornted with these type of questions. Trial and error. Test, compare, take notes, develop your own workflow.