enough about models and organisers

[night86mare]

we've heard so much in recent months about how organisers are bad, can improve...

how models are bad, can improve....

after all, this is a photographers' community, that is to be expected. but while many may have left the happy days of new paper glory behind, and others are still beating their dead horses, and frankly speaking, after all that uproar and crying...

i wonder why no one has addressed the issue of people levying accusations of "photographers" HERE, in our COMMUNITY, lurking, and going around pestering models for extra services, for shots that they are not willing to do (for personal reasons, or whatever).

i keep hearing about such things, it has always been mentioned in passing, in news, in blogs, in here, even ,but it seems like no one is bothering to do anything about it; it seems that it has become just a "part of life" here.

i also understand that clubsnap can only do so much, and that yada yada yada, even if we bother, there are other avenues, etc etc etc. but i'm sure someone here can come up with some sort of a suggestion to curtail and limit, if not eradicate such nonsensical occurences.

clean the sleaze? perhaps for once, we should start with ourselves.

anyways, i have been thinking.. but nothing really seems viable, after all, even if you limit the services section to registered members so that the models would for sure, be able to demand a user nickname that can possibly be verified (and thus at least there is some form of viable footprint or tracking to be done, if such harassment occurs)...

but at least it will solve the problem HERE , in clubsnap. if the jokers contact via elsewhere, that is another problem, but at least WE, as a community, have done our part to try to keep it clean.

what do you guys think?

 

[night86mare]

btw, can the administration verify if they are able to do anything with regards to members sending pestering PMs (since there is concrete evidence)

it is obvious, the ball is in someone else's court if the harassment is done via msn or email, but if it happens here, i do think that something should be done about it, other than just plain clubsnap style penalties, especially if the administration are aware of such wrongdoings - definitely nonsense like this will go on, and on, and on, but if an effort is shown that we WANT to do something about it, together, then it may discourage some of the less bold jokers

 

[Darren]

btw, can the administration verify if they are able to do anything with regards to members sending pestering PMs (since there is concrete evidence)

If members report PMs that are used to harass or pester others, we will do the following :-

a) De-register the member.
b) Record the information used to register and post, in case a legal proceeding is pursued.

That's about all we can do with regards to the system. It is also onus on the member being harassed to report such incidences to us so that we can take the necessary action.

We will consider creating a blacklist of members using PMs to solicit/harass members and posting information that will at least deter them from contacting others (eg publicly posting their email addresses, MSN contacts, mobile numbers etc - provided there is a very clear-cut case forwarded to us, otherwise we may run afoul of privacy laws), or for other members to cross-check if there are past incidences.

 

[catchlights]

at first I thought you want a 清理门户!

 

[night86mare]

We will consider creating a blacklist of members using PMs to solicit/harass members and posting information that will at least deter them from contacting others (eg publicly posting their email addresses, MSN contacts, mobile numbers etc - provided there is a very clear-cut case forwarded to us, otherwise we may run afoul of privacy laws), or for other members to cross-check if there are past incidences.

fair enough.

i think we all understand why there are reasons why most of the people who have gotten such will not bother bring it up properly; there is always the fear that it is not handled properly

and then again, there are always other things to consider, such as the particular member being involved; i am not going to go into detail here, but i am going to express the hope that everyone, from old to young, especially the ones who are supposed to have a higher level of trust given to them, will learn how to behave themselves properly. people have eyes, walls have ears, word gets around, and maybe nothing is done, but what goes around comes around. treat yourself with more respect, treat others with more respect, the world will be a much better place even if you are bored with your own life.

anyhow, i hope this will be done and stickied up prominently, it may not help much, since msn accounts are so easily created, same goes for email accounts, but at the very least, even if it is just a REPRESENTATIVE GESTURE, it is better than nothing, sometimes.

perhaps, maybe this could be done by assigning a particular moderator with trustworthy character ( yes, i know that all mods SUPPOSED to have trustworthy character) to receive the pms , and other mods are supposed to direct to him.. and then the moderator will update that particular thread, along with a brief and vague account of what is going on (vague, mainly because well, we don't really need to know how disgusting our peers can get).

 

[catchlights]

If members report PMs that are used to harass or pester others, we will do the following :-

a) De-register the member.
b) Record the information used to register and post, in case a legal proceeding is pursued.

That's about all we can do with regards to the system. It is also onus on the member being harassed to report such incidences to us so that we can take the necessary action.

We will consider creating a blacklist of members using PMs to solicit/harass members and posting information that will at least deter them from contacting others (eg publicly posting their email addresses, MSN contacts, mobile numbers etc - provided there is a very clear-cut case forwarded to us, otherwise we may run afoul of privacy laws), or for other members to cross-check if there are past incidences.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

we should also advice members to be caution about dealing with people try to hide their identity.

 

[night86mare]

at first I thought you want a 清理门户!

if it were up to me, yes, not just 清理门户，can also use 五虎断门招 on the likes of such ilk

but i am also a realist. :bsmilie::bsmilie:

anyways, i thought at least this thread would let such jokers know

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL BOTHER, and it may dissuade the less major cases

 

[night86mare]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

we should also advice members to be caution about dealing with people try to hide their identity.

yes, for sure, normal people will have nothing to hide, after all, they are going to meet you in face if they tfcd, if they pay to shoot also.

maybe all the people who have heard stories can share in a kopitiam thread, it is very funny, but i don't think it is good, after all, we must consider the good name of our community.

it also seems that a lot of them just lurk here, for the sole purpose of trying to find prey.

 

[romeo tango]

Well said !! I say we go all out for it (not on a witch hunt, but clean up) !!

definitely nonsense like this will go on, and on, and on, but if an effort is shown that we WANT to do something about it, together, then it may discourage some of the less bold jokers

i think we all understand why there are reasons why most of the people who have gotten such will not bother bring it up properly; there is always the fear that it is not handled properly

treat yourself with more respect, treat others with more respect, the world will be a much better place even if you are bored with your own life.

anyhow, i hope this will be done and stickied up prominently, it may not help much, since msn accounts are so easily created, same goes for email accounts, but at the very least, even if it is just a REPRESENTATIVE GESTURE, it is better than nothing, sometimes.

we should also advice members to be caution about dealing with people try to hide their identity.

if it were up to me, yes, not just 清理门户，can also use 五虎断门招 on the likes of such ilk

anyways, i thought at least this thread would let such jokers know

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL BOTHER, and it may dissuade the less major cases

it also seems that a lot of them just lurk here, for the sole purpose of trying to find prey.

 

[night86mare]

Well said !! I say we go all out for it (not on a witch hunt, but clean up) !!

sure, but do enough people care?

i highly doubt so; after all, personal interests come first, later they cheeky to model and kena blacklisted :bsmilie:

 

[romeo tango]

sure, but do enough people care?

i highly doubt so; after all, personal interests come first, later they cheeky to model and kena blacklisted :bsmilie:

I believe it all boils down to awareness. If it was made known publicly, I guess alot of people will support the cause !!

If there is anything I can do to help, do let me know

 

[night86mare]

I believe it all boils down to awareness. If it was made known publicly, I guess alot of people will support the cause !!

we shall see..

kopitiam thread started

 

[romeo tango]

we shall see..

kopitiam thread started

Great !! Just "came back" from the kopitiam thread, lots of good feedback

We are going somewhere

 

[night86mare]

anyways,

just an update that the kopitiam thread has had some very valid and suggestions worth considering, i hope the admin/mods take a look there sometime and consider or at least respond concretely as to what will be done, i have linked the thread here earlier.

some suggestions include:

1) making services offered section MEMBER VIEWABLE ONLY (most responding agree unanimously that it is no trouble, and they won't mind at all)

2) more structured filters like a mod-viewable only database of photographers who wish to view services offered with photographs and personal information submitted

3) case by case sign ups, i.e. if you wish to engage a model from services offered for private shoot, then need to submit personal info, possibly even extending to mass photoshoots

among many others, these are the ones that are repeated quite a bit. i hope that cs admin/mods will consider the time and effort put in by various parties to brainstorm on something to address this problem. and update everyone on any action taken to this feedback given. thanks.

 

[Yatlapball]

to take a leaf out of another photography forum here in south east asia... they even require a scanned photocopy of your i/c before forum membership signup is approved.. Something to think about eh?

 

[zac08]

Let me be the devils advocate here.

Who wanna take up this responsibility of holding and controlling this data? CS? You think the Mods are too free?? They have a life like any one of us...

Why would they want to take up extra work?

And how would anyone guarantee that the member's info data would be safe online? From hackers, some misuse, or others (not trying to put anyone down here, but this is a scary part)

You can always ask for things, but in the end someone has to do the dirty job and may even have to pay to get it done...

So who wants to fund it? :dunno:

 

[CYRN]

to take a leaf out of another photography forum here in south east asia... they even require a scanned photocopy of your i/c before forum membership signup is approved.. Something to think about eh?

and I've been waiting to get my registration approved there for the past few months...

 

[night86mare]

Let me be the devils advocate here.

Who wanna take up this responsibility of holding and controlling this data? CS? You think the Mods are too free?? They have a life like any one of us...

Why would they want to take up extra work?

And how would anyone guarantee that the member's info data would be safe online? From hackers, some misuse, or others (not trying to put anyone down here, but this is a scary part)

You can always ask for things, but in the end someone has to do the dirty job and may even have to pay to get it done...

So who wants to fund it? :dunno:

1. "no one wants to do it" is a sad excuse for not getting things done. just imagine, the world ended because "no one wanted to do anything". of course it will involve work, of course it will involve time, i am not going to pretend that it is going to be easy if there is such a database, to be honest, i am not going to even expect one to be put it place because i doubt there is enough care.

but seriously, is it that hard to put a members viewable block on the services offered section? that can be done almost immediately, with zero effort in the long run.

2. storage of data - good point.

i am going to question though, what can be done with photogrpah and ic number and /or address. because even lucky draw entries have all of that (photograph notwithstanding).

 

[zac08]

1. "no one wants to do it" is a sad excuse for not getting things done. just imagine, the world ended because "no one wanted to do anything". of course it will involve work, of course it will involve time, i am not going to pretend that it is going to be easy if there is such a database, to be honest, i am not going to even expect one to be put it place because i doubt there is enough care.

but seriously, is it that hard to put a members viewable block on the services offered section? that can be done almost immediately, with zero effort in the long run.

2. storage of data - good point.

i am going to question though, what can be done with photogrpah and ic number and /or address. because even lucky draw entries have all of that (photograph notwithstanding).

I am a moderator in other forums too and it's all too easy for members to ask for this and ask for that... and then expect the moderators to stand up and do it...

So would you then if someone asked you to do something? It's not just a simple task of creating a program and leaving it there to run (even then it's gonna take time to program, check and see if it can crash the forum's database, test again on the live forum and see if it really works and then bring the whole system down to set it running)

All I'm saying is Talk is cheap.... the person who's doing it isn't going to get a pat on the back after all the work is done. And worse still if there are problems later on, the blame will fall and see who gets blamed....

 

[night86mare]

I am a moderator in other forums too and it's all too easy for members to ask for this and ask for that... and then expect the moderators to stand up and do it...

So would you then if someone asked you to do something? It's not just a simple task of creating a program and leaving it there to run (even then it's gonna take time to program, check and see if it can crash the forum's database, test again on the live forum and see if it really works and then bring the whole system down to set it running)

All I'm saying is Talk is cheap.... the person who's doing it isn't going to get a pat on the back after all the work is done. And worse still if there are problems later on, the blame will fall and see who gets blamed....

it is just as easy to just say "talk is cheap"

and leave it as that. there has to be a compromise, there is always a solution.

just shutting out any way to a solution is not going to help anyone, if there is a problem.

anyways, frankly speaking, making a section members only, as others have mentioned, is already being done for P&P. what's so hard about making another section that way?

the suggestions on the kopitiam thread so far, all no need any complicated programs, the only implementation problem, that i can foresee, is really what you have mentioned lor, privacy issues and security. but even then, what's so scary about someone having a lot of people's addresses? i can look up an address if i have your name in the yellow pages, unless you specifically paid to be excluded.