D700 vs M8 and Lens

[twahidin]

Hi need the opinion of the brothers, I have just been offered a brand new Leica M8 plus 35mm F2.5 brand new for $5700 with international warranty from a reputable dealer in UK. I am in a tossed up between buying a D700 and 24-70 F2.8 or the M8. I love to do photo journalistic and "moments" shot and I enjoy the images and pictures from my Ricoh that I hardly used my DSLR anymore for the past 3 months.

What do you think? Is it a steal? Is it worth it?

Joe

 

[sf_kang]

I shoot with both a Nikon D3 and also Leica M8. As you already mentioned, the two offer very different shooting styles. I would imagine there will be times when a DSLR will be the way to go. And sometimes when shooting with a rangefinder would be more enjoyable or appropriate. I've done trip where I shoot only rangefinder. On other trips I shoot only DSLR. You'd still come home with lots of nice pictures. So just enjoy.
And if you find this M8 offer really a 'steal', go for it.
Fred

 

[chiif]

hee hee... this question is harder to answer than the A-Level Physics & F-Maths "S" paper.... though I have not taken or seen them before... :bsmilie:

Any suggestions that I give, will definitely attract alot of flame... coming from someone who shoots film most of the time, this is how I feel....

The D700 & M8 are two different beast. Depending on what you are going for, high ISO, low noise, nothing beats D700 & 5DMkII today. With M8, anything above ISO640 is only good for B&W.

At base ISO 160, and with a good glass, the M8 performs like a gem. A professional photographer, who shoots concerts with the M8 told me this. The resolving power of my Voigtlander glass with the M8 sensor outperforms his 1DMkIIn with his best L lenses. He earns a living shooting concerts and he owns quite a number of the L glasses. He uses the M8 with my CV lenses. And he told me, the CV lenses are best value for money lenses he has come across.

Generally the RF design is better than the SLR as it does not have a mirror box, the rear lens sits closer to the sensor, hence image quality naturally is better. However, this statement is not 100% true as with the modern technology advancement, sensors on DSLR improve much quicker than Leica can come up with firmware upgrade. And depending on what & how you shoot, on sime situations, RF just couldn't do the job as well as a DSLR.

Hence, to answer your question, "Is it a steal? Is it worth it?"

1. If you really like RF, for it's size, handling, nostalgic look, M8 is the only digital body with the largest sensor that you can get new today. At $5700 (with Summarit 35/f2.5) is it worth it? Well, a few months ago, the same set would cost you $7200 at Alan Photo. Maybe it will cost $5000 in 6 months time.... and $4000 in 1 year time... and $2800 in 2 years time!!! Some how digital cameras follow Moore's law too. ;p

2. Personally, I hate to bring large cameras around... As I prefer to walk on foot, anything more than 2kg in my camera bag will affect my mood for the day. A D700 + 17~35/f2.8 or 24~70 weighs about 3kg I think... (someone can correct me on this) + a lowepro flipside 400 or Compu Trekker AW, with flash or 1 or 2 prime glasses + cards + blower + HardDisk picture viewer... easily can come up to 7 to 8kg or even 10kg. Think again if you are going to cover 10km on foot to capture moments with a 10kg backpack. (like carrying a sack of 10kg rice from NTUC Fairprice walking back home) :bsmilie:

To summarize, if you would be using the M8 extensively after you've bought it, then it will definitely be worth every cent that you pay for it....

But if you are someone like me... only do serious shooting during holidays, and that only happens one or two times a year only.... I guess, it's not difficult to guess what my advise will be.

 

[kingsley244]

I happen to have both the D700 and the M8.

I have stopped taking the D700 out. I normally do only street photography and a dSLR is just too heavy (at least for me), too conspicous and too intrusive for those tpye of photography. With the 24-70mm mounted on it, the D700 is going to be like a bazooka.

However, there are times that I wish the M8 can handle low light conditions like the D700.

I guess this will not help you to decide at all. Sorry.

 

[chiif]

one more comment to add....

With the M8... U have countless possibilities of mounting third party glasses on it... screw mount, M mount...

Just look at Gommy, Hacker & Benny how many 50mm they have... :bsmilie:

 

[Hacker]

The thought of lugging around an SLR boggles the mind in hot, humid Singapore. The M8 is easy to bring around even if just to carry the camera in the event you need it. :thumbsup:

 

[twahidin]

Thanks for your inputs, I really hate carrying a huge DSLR and lens around especially on holiday.. love the little ricoh but I wish it had better DOF and feel to it. I like to travel about once a year and carrying a DSLR is really a pain plus I become the center of attention and my wife will ahem comment about the holiday becoming a shooting holiday. I will try the M8 again I wish they have better low light performance.

 

[Daikoku]

Just return from a 10day trip with 2 film rf and 3 lens...
Not very light but at least lighter then dslr...
Travel light holiday best is rf....cfmed

 

[benny]

one more comment to add....

With the M8... U have countless possibilities of mounting third party glasses on it... screw mount, M mount...

Just look at Gommy, Hacker & Benny how many 50mm they have... :bsmilie:

I don't have an M8 yet! Was offered a minty used set at S$3k+, but it's still not attractive to me. The Summarit was about S$1.5K. The hassle of UV/IR filters are also a big turn off, not to mention the 6 bit coding needed to 'correct' the images with in camera software when using wide angle lenses. I'm very happy with the Epson digital RF cameras that I'm currently using.

I do use digital SLR too and have full frame bodies amongst others. The two greatest advantages over RF for traveling are the available of zoom lens (albeit there are 3 cumbersome RF dual/tri focal length options) and going beyond 135mm. If these are important consideration, the digital RF may not be able to meet your traveling requirements. A bag loaded with fast prime RF lenses isn't going to be very lighter either. Also, do take note that you will have reduced success if you ask others to help you take holiday snaps. Many just can't focus using the RF.

If you enjoyed the Ricoh, perhaps the Leica D-Lux 4 or Panasonic LX-3 will be more fun for your 'photo journalistic and "moments" shot' on the road. Alternatively, get a film body, just for the fun of it.

Cheers,

 

[LowLights]

This is to completely different comparison..like Apple and Orange

One is German the other is Japanese

The color and image rendering from the M8 through Leica lenses produces a very different feel. There are many complains about the M8, but even with it's fault.. it still produces one of the best picture off camera (at least to me), if we are going to PS the pictures then all Beats are off..
When you place a pic take with the M8 side by side with a DSLR.. you can tell the difference straight away. The mood of the shot is wonderful..

The D700 is one jewel of a camera..if anyone was to ask me which DSLR to buy at this point in time, I will recommend this in a breath.. the High ISO performance is one thing.. but the ability of the camera to capture a scene with complicated light is very good.. but just a bit to clinical compare to a M8..

This 2 camera will perform, but at the end of the day you got to ask yourself..
1) what is the end image that you want ?
2) manual focus or auto focus
3) Is money a problem ? if no.. then get both

As for weight comparison.. the reality is the DSLR for trip might be lighter.

For M8.. we have only have Prime lenses (not counting the Tri-Elmar).. hence you might end up bringing a 21mm, 50mm and a 75 or 135. All this is not light

For the D700, there is an option of the 18-200.. but if you go prime then this setup should be heavier.. but I dun tin but much

But if one employs a one body one lens..that M8 will win in terms of light weight

So to me it the image of the moment that you want to capture that is most important, which will decide which setup to bring.

Just my 2 cents

 

[xylestesins]

If given an m8 i would bring 2 lenses around at the most.
35 and a 135 (if even necessary at all). Anything else in between can be cropped a decent amount and a 21mm would be more for architectural - i think there's barely anything new left in terms of building to pop up recently.
Carrying an M8, i suppose you wouldn't be doing mega-huge group shots. Event photography is still and should be covered by DSLRs. :sweatsm:
Rangefinders don't excel at telephoto shooting, the lenses are limited. So if you are ready to get into the action by going closer to your subjects than sniping from far..

Plus, getting a rangefinder brings you into the RF camp! :bsmilie:
Support the movement! Help RF-ing live!

 

[YOL925]

It's like comparing a machine gun with a small knife. Both can kill, but which one can kill more effectively? To me, it depends on who is using it... heard about 小李飞刀? :bsmilie:

 

[gohaj]

If these are important consideration, the digital RF may not be able to meet your traveling requirements.

I got to agree with this statement. Tried it out myself recently. Beside digital RF, I have to use dslr at times during the trip.

 

[nordleadx]

I did ask myself this question before.

My friend took lots of nice pics using $18 disposable cameras and I realise its a matter which camera the user like.

If the user love his camera and setup, even camera like D3 with all the huge lens is not going to stop him. I believe ;p

 

[twahidin]

Well,I like the nostalgic and manual focus camera, to me that's where the feel and art of the pictures comes through when the photographer do not simply press and let the electronics do the rest. Although I am not saying that using a DSLR is easy for the simple folks, but somehow the feel of the picture is there when it is taken trough a leica.

 

[benny]

Well,I like the nostalgic and manual focus camera, to me that's where the feel and art of the pictures comes through when the photographer do not simply press and let the electronics do the rest.

If this is the case, then Leica film bodies will be a perfect fit to the above statement. The M3 and the M6 comes to mind.

Cheers,

 

[Hacker]

Just bring the twin Tri-Elmars: 16-18-21mm and the 28-35-50mm.;p While traveling, sometimes it is useful to be stealthy also.

A small DSLR would be definitely useful mated with a small zoom lens like the Oly E520 with IS. Even for DSLRs, there is always the D3x and the 1Ds series, all very huge indeed. Of course, there is the very tiny Panasonic G1 and it can be used with the Tri-Elmars and they become zoom lenses.

 

[LowLights]

Just bring the twin Tri-Elmars: 16-18-21mm and the 28-35-50mm.;p While traveling, sometimes it is useful to be stealthy also.

Yup this will definitely lighten your load.. from your wallet :bsmilie:

 

[Hacker]

Yup this will definitely lighten your load.. from your wallet :bsmilie:

No wonder everyone I have met said I have lost weight. :bsmilie::bigeyes:

 

[Xtol19]

Hi need the opinion of the brothers, I have just been offered a brand new Leica M8 plus 35mm F2.5 brand new for $5700 with international warranty from a reputable dealer in UK. I am in a tossed up between buying a D700 and 24-70 F2.8 or the M8. I love to do photo journalistic and "moments" shot and I enjoy the images and pictures from my Ricoh that I hardly used my DSLR anymore for the past 3 months.

What do you think? Is it a steal? Is it worth it?

Joe

If you have to ask this question, you don't understand what you want/need in a camera. It's like saying should I buy a sportscar or an SUV. They are both cars, but they serve very different purposes.