If you find a job and a company that you think you'll like, but a friend tells you that the company sucks (management, culture, people, etc), will you still join that company?
Will u work at a company that your friend says sucks?
- Thread starter WuffRuff
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Wahh... u replied before I can post the poll!
So happens that your choice is there... cast your vote!
do you trust your friend? If you believe him. avoid the company and keep looking!
Sighhh... The problem is, this did not happen with just one friend and company!
I used to trust these friends and believe them and avoid the companies, but somehow it keeps happening that for all the jobs/ companies that I want to join, someone who works or used to work there will tell me how much it sucks and I get scared off by them and give up on the job.
So till now I have no job and I'm beginning to think that maybe I should just ignore all these opinions and take the plunge.
But in a way I feel that they are right about the company sucking. This is becos if those companies did not suck, why do they have a pretty high turnover rate? Although I can't assume its a turnover rate and don't know the reasons for their other employees leaving, but it seems that these companies have job vacancies pretty often. Not sure if its becos the companies and large and therefore the incidence of losing employees is greater too.
:dunno:
What line are you thinking of going into?
Banking in particular have very high turnover rates lately. With entire teams leaving for greener pastures even. So turnover rates are not exactly an accurate picture of the true situation in the company. It's could just be an industry norm.
Also do not forget. It is inherent in some people's nature to complain of only the bad things. Also they may have other agenda of their own. A new colleague = Potential threat. Ex-employee? Why help my old company out by saying good things? I think you catch my drift here. Human beings are selfish by nature.
Trust half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Banking in particular have very high turnover rates lately. With entire teams leaving for greener pastures even. So turnover rates are not exactly an accurate picture of the true situation in the company. It's could just be an industry norm.
Also do not forget. It is inherent in some people's nature to complain of only the bad things. Also they may have other agenda of their own. A new colleague = Potential threat. Ex-employee? Why help my old company out by saying good things? I think you catch my drift here. Human beings are selfish by nature.
Trust half of what you see and none of what you hear.
The jobs had nothing to do with banking...
And I know its not an industry norm... In fact, they are pretty much industries with little or no competition in the same country.
I notice that govt. jobs have one of the highest turnover rates!
Sometimes the companies are just fishing for the odd extremely good potential candidate. If you have friends in HR you can ask them. The company may not necessarily be wanting to employ at the moment.
Civil Service... Not everybody's cup of tea. I've seen at least half of my cohort leave the moment their minimum term of service is up.
Anyway, you did mentioned you are not working. You think you may like the job. So why not just go ahead and try it out. Just make sure you don't get bogged down by a contract that says you cannot leave for xx number of years.
Civil Service... Not everybody's cup of tea. I've seen at least half of my cohort leave the moment their minimum term of service is up.
Anyway, you did mentioned you are not working. You think you may like the job. So why not just go ahead and try it out. Just make sure you don't get bogged down by a contract that says you cannot leave for xx number of years.
actually very easy to tell whether your friend is correct or not, just buy the saturday newspapers every saturday.
some companies wah lou! every week also got vacancy. somemore is the same few vacancy. blacklist these companies and move on.
maybe the business is expanding very rapidly that's Y got a lot of jobs :bsmilie:
actually very easy to tell whether your friend is correct or not, just buy the saturday newspapers every saturday.
some companies wah lou! every week also got vacancy. somemore is the same few vacancy. blacklist these companies and move on.
Yah, i know. Got one friend condemn this company (does not happen to be one I was interested in). Every week also in newspapers with same old jobs. In fact, it is rare not to see it in Sat's recruit.
Now this company i'm keen in is not always in newspaper la. But they do have several job listings on their website over the past few months. Think turnover wise maybe considered ok for a large company. But then even if turnover is ok, does not mean the company is ok. Employees may stay for the benefits (cos benefits are good) and put up with the **** lor.
I cannot really afford to 'try out' anymore jobs oredi... cos I've already tried out a few jobs and I really need to stay in my next job so that my resume will not look like a problematic job-hopper's.
it all depends on what you really look for in a job. If you want the easy way out.. big fat pay, easy and smooth going life at work, everybody who smiles at you and greets you, no office politics, wonderful benefits that even includes 30day annual leave, holiday expenses claims, unlimited medical leave, etc..
wake up my friend. Every job will give you experience (whether directly or indirectly) related to you building your future career. Stop victimising yourself to circumstances and the words of others. Some openings in semicon fabs are notorious for ultra long working hours and superbly high turn over rates. Those that leave cannot stand up to the test. Those that stay has the better chance to shine from the rest.
Make the best out of the sh!t you're in and prove your worth. You'll be much better off than to look for that perfect job that all your friends agree to.
Remember, talking is FREE. Your friends can discourage you from taking up a job for many reasons but at the end of the day they are not responsible for your rice bowl and livelihood. YOU chose to take up their 'advice', so you cannot blame them for being jobless.
wake up my friend. Every job will give you experience (whether directly or indirectly) related to you building your future career. Stop victimising yourself to circumstances and the words of others. Some openings in semicon fabs are notorious for ultra long working hours and superbly high turn over rates. Those that leave cannot stand up to the test. Those that stay has the better chance to shine from the rest.
Make the best out of the sh!t you're in and prove your worth. You'll be much better off than to look for that perfect job that all your friends agree to.
Remember, talking is FREE. Your friends can discourage you from taking up a job for many reasons but at the end of the day they are not responsible for your rice bowl and livelihood. YOU chose to take up their 'advice', so you cannot blame them for being jobless.
Jus FYI, I am not looking for the perfect job with fabulous pay & benefits and all... and definitely not looking for an easy job (in fact that is a turn off). But some things are important to me and I am looking for a job with those things.
And I definitely don't blame anyone for being jobless. In fact, I value and appreciate whatever feedback that I can get from people in the company becos that is the only way to find out about it.
Jus to clarify a few points. This poll was posted just to see what most people would do in this situation and also to get a broader perspective on things from listening to different people's opinions. I appreciate your opinions too and you are probably right to make the most of the **** you're in. Jus seems like u've misunderstood a few things so wanna clarify.
People all have different views on everything.
What you don't like could possibly be just what I have been looking for.
I might meet you via some friends and we hit it off as good friends, or, we might form an instant dislike.
Life is like that. (a box of choclates as per Forrest Gump) :bsmilie:
What you don't like could possibly be just what I have been looking for.
I might meet you via some friends and we hit it off as good friends, or, we might form an instant dislike.
Life is like that. (a box of choclates as per Forrest Gump) :bsmilie:
Do what you love. that is more impt than a job. But to love your job, you have to know yourself 1st.
and just as importantly, sell yourself well. and learn new things and be of good service to all.
Even if you are in a favourable environment with the best boss and colleagues. There is no point staying if you have no room to grow and learn new things.But of cos you have to start somewhere to start your journey.
and just as importantly, sell yourself well. and learn new things and be of good service to all.
Even if you are in a favourable environment with the best boss and colleagues. There is no point staying if you have no room to grow and learn new things.But of cos you have to start somewhere to start your journey.
Have you not read the pace of life in Singapore is the fastest in the world?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070502/od_nm/pedestrians_speed_study_odd_dc
Or did you missed the news on a poorly paid contract manager at HP (supposedly a family friendly company who won several best employer award) who died over-worked?
http://vantan.org/archives/2007/05/singapore_woman.php - the New Paper article expired so here's alternative source
And her original Blog before working to her own death: http://pinkmayflower.multiply.com/journal/item/140
I'm not generalising but most companies (from my experiences as well as many others) in Singapore work their staff like race horses (or rather greyhounds) and staffs just had a terrible time keeping their pants on.
But as usual, lots of companies are really worth a slot in your private blacklist and here are some recommendations for the award.
Here are some tips in what to look out for:
1.) High frequency repetative re-advertisements in newspapers and job sites - this can suggest that the newly hired keep quiting and if so many before you can't, the odds of you making it there becomes slimmer. Even if you wanna' gamble, choose something with a better odds. High frequency and reqularity are synoromous. Some employees got minimum 2-3 months notice before last day so every 2-3 months advertise instead.
2.) Recruitment agencies (with the exception of specialised and reputable Head Hunting Companies (usu.top positions only)) and blind boxes tend to be the tatics bad reputed companies source their employees. As agencies don't care and wanting the comission, what makes you think they'll tell you it's a an**l company to work in. An advertisement with web mail account and / or with many various job positions available are usually from more notorious agents. And for blind boxes, it works by cutting down the chances of you receiving sufficient feedback about the company before the interview and signing on with them.
3.) At interview, bad companies or poor compensation employers will keep the employment details as brief as possible. Things like working hours norm (ie. Official + unofficial) no AWS for the first year and no variable bonuses unless you work more than 12 months will not be mentioned but purposely ommitted. You won't see much details on your employment letter too.
4.) At interview, no one cares about your pressence and some makes you wait as if you are in for begging or you are some starved refugee. Busy is no excuse. Appointment is made for a potential candidate. If they cannot manage their time for you now, they can't do so when you're on board. Be prepared to die on your own accord. Leave immediately if you see this happening. If they do this even before you sign on with them, what else better is to happen to you?
5.) Bad employers use stress interview to mess you up. Whether you can handle the stress interview or not is not the point. The point is ethical issues. Stress interview is seen at least from the human rights perspective as unethical and wrong. Coming back to logic, if they do this to you at interview which last no more than 30 mins, they can do this to you in your face every minute everyday once you sign on.
6.) Bad employers talk you down. By that, I mean they'll try to talk downthrodding comments to convince that you are below the requirements or even not qualified for the job and should lower down you pay expectations because of that. This is the worst of all bad tatics. Not just an attempt to debase you without facts (how can you tell if the person can make it well if you don't give him/her a chance first? What's the probation period for? Then why in the world he asked you to come for an interview?) they also tried to gain unfair bargaining power over you by convincing you about something they themselves are unsure.
7.) Bad employers usually lacked the personal touch. They will never ask if you're married or have kids or what your kids are doing. Some say those who don't ask are being professional but I see it as they don't care. It's work and only work, family life is the employees' problem and the least they want to hear. So please don't fall sick or apply annual leaves. Worst still these employers hate women who gets pregnant on the job. If news broke out that you have any personal issues, eg. pregnancy, the management will mark you and manage you out a.s.a.p. before you give birth and thus save the compulsory maternity leave. Well, you can cry foul but it's defined by the management what is good or bad performances. Human are full of excuses, finding a sound like real reason to sack you is easy. The devasating part is how in the world are you gonna find bread when your stomach is showing a mid-term pregnancy when you attend an interview after being fired.
8) Make a wage search on MOM website before putting down the expected salary. Don't be conned into working for an employer who short-changed you.
9) Never under-cut the market rate. Cheap employees are usually so cheap that they are abandoned, forgotten and abused. Employers take it for granted that if this time round I can hire this position for this amount, I can do so next time too. Selling yourself cheap means lowering your own value proposition yourself and before the eyes of employers.
10) Never respond to a job interview you sent 1 month plus ago. It says someone has left and you're in line next for Pearl Harbour posting.
11) Terms you see on advertisements and what they mean:
a) Female working environment = Guys can forget about applying
b) Good team player / Good communication skill / Able to work with all levels = Your colleagues (horizontal and vertical) in the new workplace are from Hell
c) Able to work long hours when required = Expect at least 12 hours a day, 6 days a week
d) Able to handle (work well) under stress (pressure) / Well organised and good prioritising skills = Management sets unrealistic goals / work pace and gives you hell day in and out
e) Well / sweet disposition / groomed / attractive = Perverts needing replenishments (regardless of a pretence of front-line requirement)
f) Contract Renewable / Contract to perm = You are a Lego piece and a 2nd class citizen.
g) Those who can start work immediately (...due to expansion) = Someone got fired / Management prone to poor planning / Employee left suddenly in pure disgust
h) Proven track record = They want your business network you'd established over the years working for and nothing else. Hand them over and let's discuss about the severance package
i) Tertiary Education = Min. Degree
j) Post Graduate Degree = Min. Masters and onwards.
12) More tips but I think I'll stop here.
* Final advice: Source everywhere as much as possible about the company. For negative feedbacks, grapevine sources tend to be more reliable. Be as factual as possible and form your own opinions. If seriously needed, use benchmarking and weighted tables to prioritise which is the best objective choice.
Cheers.
ps. Hope This becomes a Sticky.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070502/od_nm/pedestrians_speed_study_odd_dc
Or did you missed the news on a poorly paid contract manager at HP (supposedly a family friendly company who won several best employer award) who died over-worked?
http://vantan.org/archives/2007/05/singapore_woman.php - the New Paper article expired so here's alternative source
And her original Blog before working to her own death: http://pinkmayflower.multiply.com/journal/item/140
I'm not generalising but most companies (from my experiences as well as many others) in Singapore work their staff like race horses (or rather greyhounds) and staffs just had a terrible time keeping their pants on.
But as usual, lots of companies are really worth a slot in your private blacklist and here are some recommendations for the award.
Here are some tips in what to look out for:
1.) High frequency repetative re-advertisements in newspapers and job sites - this can suggest that the newly hired keep quiting and if so many before you can't, the odds of you making it there becomes slimmer. Even if you wanna' gamble, choose something with a better odds. High frequency and reqularity are synoromous. Some employees got minimum 2-3 months notice before last day so every 2-3 months advertise instead.
2.) Recruitment agencies (with the exception of specialised and reputable Head Hunting Companies (usu.top positions only)) and blind boxes tend to be the tatics bad reputed companies source their employees. As agencies don't care and wanting the comission, what makes you think they'll tell you it's a an**l company to work in. An advertisement with web mail account and / or with many various job positions available are usually from more notorious agents. And for blind boxes, it works by cutting down the chances of you receiving sufficient feedback about the company before the interview and signing on with them.
3.) At interview, bad companies or poor compensation employers will keep the employment details as brief as possible. Things like working hours norm (ie. Official + unofficial) no AWS for the first year and no variable bonuses unless you work more than 12 months will not be mentioned but purposely ommitted. You won't see much details on your employment letter too.
4.) At interview, no one cares about your pressence and some makes you wait as if you are in for begging or you are some starved refugee. Busy is no excuse. Appointment is made for a potential candidate. If they cannot manage their time for you now, they can't do so when you're on board. Be prepared to die on your own accord. Leave immediately if you see this happening. If they do this even before you sign on with them, what else better is to happen to you?
5.) Bad employers use stress interview to mess you up. Whether you can handle the stress interview or not is not the point. The point is ethical issues. Stress interview is seen at least from the human rights perspective as unethical and wrong. Coming back to logic, if they do this to you at interview which last no more than 30 mins, they can do this to you in your face every minute everyday once you sign on.
6.) Bad employers talk you down. By that, I mean they'll try to talk downthrodding comments to convince that you are below the requirements or even not qualified for the job and should lower down you pay expectations because of that. This is the worst of all bad tatics. Not just an attempt to debase you without facts (how can you tell if the person can make it well if you don't give him/her a chance first? What's the probation period for? Then why in the world he asked you to come for an interview?) they also tried to gain unfair bargaining power over you by convincing you about something they themselves are unsure.
7.) Bad employers usually lacked the personal touch. They will never ask if you're married or have kids or what your kids are doing. Some say those who don't ask are being professional but I see it as they don't care. It's work and only work, family life is the employees' problem and the least they want to hear. So please don't fall sick or apply annual leaves. Worst still these employers hate women who gets pregnant on the job. If news broke out that you have any personal issues, eg. pregnancy, the management will mark you and manage you out a.s.a.p. before you give birth and thus save the compulsory maternity leave. Well, you can cry foul but it's defined by the management what is good or bad performances. Human are full of excuses, finding a sound like real reason to sack you is easy. The devasating part is how in the world are you gonna find bread when your stomach is showing a mid-term pregnancy when you attend an interview after being fired.
8) Make a wage search on MOM website before putting down the expected salary. Don't be conned into working for an employer who short-changed you.
9) Never under-cut the market rate. Cheap employees are usually so cheap that they are abandoned, forgotten and abused. Employers take it for granted that if this time round I can hire this position for this amount, I can do so next time too. Selling yourself cheap means lowering your own value proposition yourself and before the eyes of employers.
10) Never respond to a job interview you sent 1 month plus ago. It says someone has left and you're in line next for Pearl Harbour posting.
11) Terms you see on advertisements and what they mean:
a) Female working environment = Guys can forget about applying
b) Good team player / Good communication skill / Able to work with all levels = Your colleagues (horizontal and vertical) in the new workplace are from Hell
c) Able to work long hours when required = Expect at least 12 hours a day, 6 days a week
d) Able to handle (work well) under stress (pressure) / Well organised and good prioritising skills = Management sets unrealistic goals / work pace and gives you hell day in and out
e) Well / sweet disposition / groomed / attractive = Perverts needing replenishments (regardless of a pretence of front-line requirement)
f) Contract Renewable / Contract to perm = You are a Lego piece and a 2nd class citizen.
g) Those who can start work immediately (...due to expansion) = Someone got fired / Management prone to poor planning / Employee left suddenly in pure disgust
h) Proven track record = They want your business network you'd established over the years working for and nothing else. Hand them over and let's discuss about the severance package
i) Tertiary Education = Min. Degree
j) Post Graduate Degree = Min. Masters and onwards.
12) More tips but I think I'll stop here.
* Final advice: Source everywhere as much as possible about the company. For negative feedbacks, grapevine sources tend to be more reliable. Be as factual as possible and form your own opinions. If seriously needed, use benchmarking and weighted tables to prioritise which is the best objective choice.
Cheers.
ps. Hope This becomes a Sticky.
- Status
