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Thread: Should i go DSLR?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Thanks for all the great advice!

    Based on the info above, it looks like the DSLR is cumbersome. Not in terms of size, but the after-shot image processing with the s/w image processors.

    I may shoot RAW, but most of the time, I'd like to capture moments of people and then show them off to them (my friends), without having to edit them.

    I think I'd get the EP3 with external flash. It should be able to give me the shots I want, with cooked JPGs instead of the dull pics from DSLR.

    No offence, but I still don't really understand why would anyone get a DSLR to get dull RAW pics?? And go through all the hassle to add life to the pics they took? This doesn't really sound like photography to me, but more of photoshopping skills?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong View Post
    Thanks for all the great advice!

    Based on the info above, it looks like the DSLR is cumbersome. Not in terms of size, but the after-shot image processing with the s/w image processors.

    I may shoot RAW, but most of the time, I'd like to capture moments of people and then show them off to them (my friends), without having to edit them.

    I think I'd get the EP3 with external flash. It should be able to give me the shots I want, with cooked JPGs instead of the dull pics from DSLR.

    No offence, but I still don't really understand why would anyone get a DSLR to get dull RAW pics?? And go through all the hassle to add life to the pics they took? This doesn't really sound like photography to me, but more of photoshopping skills?
    You may want to point abit of your attention to this thread :http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/digit...-pictures.html
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  3. #23

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong View Post
    Thanks for all the great advice!

    Based on the info above, it looks like the DSLR is cumbersome. Not in terms of size, but the after-shot image processing with the s/w image processors.

    I may shoot RAW, but most of the time, I'd like to capture moments of people and then show them off to them (my friends), without having to edit them.

    I think I'd get the EP3 with external flash. It should be able to give me the shots I want, with cooked JPGs instead of the dull pics from DSLR.

    No offence, but I still don't really understand why would anyone get a DSLR to get dull RAW pics?? And go through all the hassle to add life to the pics they took? This doesn't really sound like photography to me, but more of photoshopping skills?


    I think you may have not gotten the full picture of RAW. I guess the easier way to explain this is those super rich color pictures you see out of camera from PNS are due to incamera processing. It doesnt mean that RAW will show a duller representation of the scene that you have taken. It is so simply because it has no processing done at all.

    DSLR also has incamera processing capability to shoot jpegs under different profiles like - vivid, portraits, landscape etc. But you lose control of how much details, sharpness, vibranze, saturation, hue , recover highlights in the picture.

    The reason why people shoot raw is because raw is the digital negative of film. In the old days, photogs need to process film and they can add variety to the output of the pictures through the developing process. Instead of of letting the camera processor decide how the picture should look like, people like to take control of the pictures and process themselves in post processing. The only way to manipulate those information is to through shooting raw.

    So if you think that raw shooters are not making sense . Think again.

    If processing is not part of photography, it makes the JPEG shooters less of a photographer as they are relying on in-camera photoshopping skills instead of manual.

    However, the sentence above doesnt stand as well. At the end of the day, if you know the limitations of your tool, and knows how to utilise it to take great pictures, it doesnt matter if you are shooting raw, jpeg, using pns , dslr , medium format or toy cameras. .. . .
    Alpha and Omega

  4. #24

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Hi SkyStrike,

    Thanks for the thread. It's really interesting to see all the pre/post processing pics, and how s/w can make so much difference to the original shots.

    Please excuse me for my ignorance, but don't all these PP throw the art of photography out of the window? For instance, some of the shots could have been taken with different lenses, smaller/larger f-numbers (and depth of field), framing, by waiting patiently for good timing, or adding/reducing light and angles, add strobes and flash, etc...

    Hmm...

  5. #25

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atarandas View Post
    So if you think that raw shooters are not making sense . Think again.

    If processing is not part of photography, it makes the JPEG shooters less of a photographer as they are relying on in-camera photoshopping skills instead of manual.

    However, the sentence above doesnt stand as well. At the end of the day, if you know the limitations of your tool, and knows how to utilise it to take great pictures, it doesnt matter if you are shooting raw, jpeg, using pns , dslr , medium format or toy cameras. .. . .
    Hi Atarandas,

    Thanks for the info. Yes, I do agree with you that PnS do have in-camera processing. And yes, DSLRs also have the different modes too.
    I know that the RAW is the digital negative of film. And that we can do lots lots with RAW pics because of the details, etc..
    I'd definitely take RAW if the pics are to be framed on the wall, used for posters, product shots for sales pitches, postcards, etc...
    However, if the pics are simply taken en-masse, e.g., if I'm taking pictures on a holiday or an outing with a group of friends or family, I'd not take RAW for all 3,000 pics and PP all of them.

    And yes, I already know the limitations of my current "tool", and I am exploring to see if I should go DSLR.
    My PnS cannot take good pics in limited lighting, and even with additional lights, they do not turn out as my eyes see them.


    I simply want to know if the pics taken by DSLR would turn out nice enough without having to PP.
    I hope I'm making some sense here, and not offended any of you here.

    Thanks!

  6. #26

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Not everyone shoot in RAW.. I myself shoot in JPeg most of the time. Becos im lazy and i suck at PP. Dont worry..with proper skill and technique it will turn out decent. At least way better than Compact cameras..I dontknow how high is your expectation tho.. Dont any of your friend own a DSLR? try it and load the pic into your laptop.. If not go down to the store..bring your own MS..shoot and view the pic at home.

  7. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong
    Hi SkyStrike,

    Thanks for the thread. It's really interesting to see all the pre/post processing pics, and how s/w can make so much difference to the original shots.

    Please excuse me for my ignorance, but don't all these PP throw the art of photography out of the window? For instance, some of the shots could have been taken with different lenses, smaller/larger f-numbers (and depth of field), framing, by waiting patiently for good timing, or adding/reducing light and angles, add strobes and flash, etc...

    Hmm...
    PP does not throw photography out of the window. Some of the most important things in photography cannot be done by PP. For example the most important aspect, composition, is done by the photographer and not through photoshop. Another important aspect, lighting, can only be processed to a certain degree, using strobes and shooting in good lighting conditions is still important to photographers.

    Think of PP as a supplement to your photography, it brings out the full potential of your pictures. Give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    yes. Go for DSLR.
    D700 - 24-70mm F2.8 ED - 105mm VR2 Micro - Samyang 14mm - 50mm 1.8D - Mb 10 - SB900 - SB400

  9. #29

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmilkteaTW View Post
    Not everyone shoot in RAW.. I myself shoot in JPeg most of the time. Becos im lazy and i suck at PP. Dont worry..with proper skill and technique it will turn out decent. At least way better than Compact cameras..I dontknow how high is your expectation tho.. Dont any of your friend own a DSLR? try it and load the pic into your laptop.. If not go down to the store..bring your own MS..shoot and view the pic at home.
    What's "MS"? Did you mean "MS colour"?

    Yes, some of my friends own DSLR, and I've played with a few before. I love the feel of the D300s - big enough for my hands, and weighty enough to feel good.

    I always relied on the LCD screen on the cam to tell me how the shot went. And most of the time, they're fairly accurate, i.e., they turn out the way I view them through the viewfinder. Except for times when I use flash. When I used the external flash, the pics usually turn out nicer than through the viewfinder.

    Thanks for letting me know that there's at least one of us here that shoots in JPeg with a DSLR and not PP.

    Now the question is... EP3 or DSLR. HA!!

  10. #30

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    MS = memory Stick.

    So there.. you have tried before. Then you shouldnt be asking those questions.. Yes, infact many people shoot in Jpegs. Are you trying to say EPL3? Both are good. It really depends what you're looking for. 1 is smaller and lighter..the other is not. If you're just looking 1 that can produce nice picture. Both are capable. Dont worry.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmilkteaTW View Post
    MS = memory Stick.

    So there.. you have tried before. Then you shouldnt be asking those questions.. Yes, infact many people shoot in Jpegs. Are you trying to say EPL3? Both are good. It really depends what you're looking for. 1 is smaller and lighter..the other is not. If you're just looking 1 that can produce nice picture. Both are capable. Dont worry.
    Nope. Not the "lite" version. It's E-P3 which I'm referring to.

    Oh, one more thing that I've just thought of, which adds to the consideration of DSLR... and is making me lean towards the E-P3.

    -> Not many people can handle the weight and feel of a DSLR. And it is quite disappointing when I want my picture taken, and I pass my huge DSLR to a passerby to help take my picture... And the person just stares at me blankly, or looks really distressed, and doesn't know how to properly hold and shoot the DSLR... With the PEN, i think it's quite simple and more of a PnS in some sense. Easier for me to pass the cam to others to help me take pics.

    Just a thought. But then again, in this time and age, most of us do own DSLRs. So it wouldn't be much of a problem, eh?

  12. #32

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Dennis my question to you again: what do you gain if you swap your TZ-1 with an EP-3?

    Most of my friends got a mirrorless camera as a backup/portable version of their DSLR. These mirrorless cameras are by no means replacements for DSLRs, they supplement the photopgrahers' main gears. IMHO getting an EP-3 doesn't seem to be an upgrade to me, merely a glorified PnS with interchangeable lens.

    Don't quote me wrong, mirrorless cameras are still evolving and it has not reached the stage of exceeding DSLRs yet. DoF control, high ISO performance, AF tracking etc... These are the key advantage you get if you jump into the DSLR bandwagon.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong View Post
    Just a thought. But then again, in this time and age, most of us do own DSLRs. So it wouldn't be much of a problem, eh?
    Most recent DSLRs have live view mode (aka composing via the rear LCD just like normal PnS), some even have smile detection too. It is not difficult at all to get someone to take pictures of yourself.
    Fujifilm X-Pro2 Graphite, X-Pro1
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong View Post
    Hi Atarandas,

    Thanks for the info. Yes, I do agree with you that PnS do have in-camera processing. And yes, DSLRs also have the different modes too.
    I know that the RAW is the digital negative of film. And that we can do lots lots with RAW pics because of the details, etc..
    I'd definitely take RAW if the pics are to be framed on the wall, used for posters, product shots for sales pitches, postcards, etc...
    However, if the pics are simply taken en-masse, e.g., if I'm taking pictures on a holiday or an outing with a group of friends or family, I'd not take RAW for all 3,000 pics and PP all of them.

    And yes, I already know the limitations of my current "tool", and I am exploring to see if I should go DSLR.
    My PnS cannot take good pics in limited lighting, and even with additional lights, they do not turn out as my eyes see them.


    I simply want to know if the pics taken by DSLR would turn out nice enough without having to PP.
    I hope I'm making some sense here, and not offended any of you here.

    Thanks!
    nah not offended , just exchanging views here. Cheers
    Alpha and Omega

  15. #35

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong View Post
    Wow... thanks for all the great advise.

    Yes, kklee, the TZ7 is serving me very well... under good light. However, I feel limited when I try to take product shots, or shots indoors, such as restaurants or at home, or at night. It's really frustrating.

    I've been looking at the EP3. Nice looking cam... I like the different art filters of the cam. But probably something for my wife, not me.

    Anyway, I've read the sticky on "What cam..", and I've still got a question.

    Is it true that the pics from Nikon cams need more photoshop than Canon?
    And are the colours from Canon more "real", compared to the Nikon, in terms of hue/saturation, red?
    I'm not into photo-editing at all. I take my pics and that's it. Everything that I take is in that moment of "click", not after.

    Yes, I know there's many more brands out there, but I need to narrow my choices, so I can start focusing...

    ... With that budget of S$1000 - S$1500, and with my big budgie hands, the mid-sized cams would be:
    1) Canon 60D
    2) Nikon D7000
    3) Nikon D90

    Hmm....
    If in a restaurant, seated at the table with the intent of taking food and people pics, a PnS with wide aperture ( e.g f/2.0 ) like the Canon S95 might be more suitable. With a DSLR and kit lens, you might physically need stand up and move back. I use a Canon S90 and you can get relatively sharp pics at ISO100, F/2.0 at 1/10secs with image stablisation.

    For big hands, I feel the need to add a battery grip.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    I don't agree with the "if to frame on the wall, or important shots then shoot in RAW while if shoot for fun just take jpeg". I believe it's more of a personal choice due to workflow and storage space management.

    I quote my own example,

    I shoot in RAW for almost all my shots. I want it RAW because I have better control over multiple aspects such as better dynamic range for post processing and white balance control (while you can do that in JPEG but you will suffer more from the digital artifacts that it may give). I will take time to diligently delete CMI shots before I import them to my computer. The only time I shoot in jpeg is when I'm taking timelapse video. This kind of video usually takes hundreds to thousands of shots to form a min or longer video. If I were to shoot in RAW, I'll be busy changing memory cards and having to buy very large storage space memory cards. But this means I must get all my JPEG settings correct in-camera or I've to edit thousands of them which is nearly impossible...

    Hence, from a practical point of view, shoot in the mode that is most comfortable to you that suits your needs. If JPEG is fine for you, go ahead and just shoot JPEG. If you appreciates the convenience that RAW can give you and can spare the harddisk space to keep them, go for RAW.
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  17. #37
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    Ermmm... :blush: I shoot RAW becoz my processor slow, abit CMI....
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
    IMHO getting an EP-3 doesn't seem to be an upgrade to me, merely a glorified PnS with interchangeable lens.
    Hi yrh0413, this is really new to me. Please pardon me if I'm wrong here.

    I thought m43 is like a DSLR without the mirror box, and therefore the cam is much smaller, but still performs like a DSLR. ?

  19. #39

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong View Post
    Hi yrh0413, this is really new to me. Please pardon me if I'm wrong here.

    I thought m43 is like a DSLR without the mirror box, and therefore the cam is much smaller, but still performs like a DSLR. ?
    Not exactly when you consider the sensor size. Sony NEX series performs more like DSLRs

  20. #40

    Default Re: Should i go DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniswong View Post
    Hi yrh0413, this is really new to me. Please pardon me if I'm wrong here.

    I thought m43 is like a DSLR without the mirror box, and therefore the cam is much smaller, but still performs like a DSLR. ?
    depends on how you "define" the term DSLR. removing the mirror box only makes the camera body smaller, and at the same time the AF module etc has been stripped away. Mirrorless camera performs like a DSLR in a way it allows interchangeable lens BUT with current technology these mirrorless cameras have not archive decent AF tracking and high ISO performance like a DSLR.

    Some of these mirrorless bodies like the NEX do have APS-C size sensor, but then the technology around it (again like AF, high ISO performance) has not evolved on-par with its DSLR counterparts. On the other hand m4/3, NEX lenses are pretty slow and you do not get much to play with in terms of DoF control.

    All in all that is why I label these as "glorified PnS".
    Fujifilm X-Pro2 Graphite, X-Pro1
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