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Thread: Forumers at Buy and Sell

  1. #21
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    One more thing: the feedbacks are monitored by the moderator, and only when it sounds fishy or rather sarcastic or in any other offending way will the moderator first contact the involved parties to clarify.......it works, and it all depends on the users too......lets give it a try I would say........

    Hong Sien

  2. #22

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    Hey guys,
    I happened to come upon this thread while waiting for the US presidential election results.

    So far I haven't had any trouble with the sellers I met on ClubSNAP and I never sell my stuff before on CS so I guess I am pretty lucky. But I heard a lot of bad cases and stories from friends about irresponsible buyers/sellers. Usually sellers are the ones dealing with all the crap, unfortunately.

    I know it sounds cliche but to all sellers out there - if your supposedly buyer stood you up the very last minute and giving all kinds of stories. Just forget it and move on. Your buyer isn't the only fish in the sea and I am very sure there will be another person out there looking for the product you are selling.

    And sellers, don't be irritated when a potential buyer starts bargaining with you. Because ALL of us in this thread are buyers and as consumers, we want to get our money's worth so it is human nature to bargain for something that you like. As sellers, I guess it is important to tell your potential buyer(s) why you can't lower your price by supporting your reason(s).

    And frankly speaking, the internet is such an ambiguous world, there is no voice tone involved and you don't see the person's face while doing all your trading, there is nothing you can do even if the buyer stood you up. Ban them? They can always create a new account and an alias and start all over again.

    Insincere buyers usually take a longer time to reply you because maybe they are just testing the market and making comparisons. I was told by my friend (a frequent seller at Ebay) that spotting these jokers is a craft and he can tell if they are sincere or not from their replies.

    Cheers,
    -Michelle-

  3. #23
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    It all boils down to the manners of buyers (and some sellers too)......in Holland (the website I pointed to), there are no problems with this as long as it is monitored for rash comments, but generally there are only minor problems. People are quite honest there and really give proper feedback, some even don't give negative feedback to give the benefit of doubt...at least it works there and in other places. From the 1000 users there are always a few rotten apples, but that shouldn't deter us from not using the system? A person that frequently changes ID can easily be tracked by the IP address (or something like that), am I right?

    Hong Sien

  4. #24

    Default Moderators are not gods.

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    It all boils down to the manners of buyers (and some sellers too)......in Holland (the website I pointed to), there are no problems with this as long as it is monitored for rash comments, but generally there are only minor problems. People are quite honest there and really give proper feedback, some even don't give negative feedback to give the benefit of doubt...at least it works there and in other places. From the 1000 users there are always a few rotten apples, but that shouldn't deter us from not using the system? A person that frequently changes ID can easily be tracked by the IP address (or something like that), am I right?

    Hong Sien
    Although they can be tracked down by the IP address but there will still be many ways he/she can come back again and trust me, there will STILL be people who may end up buying things from them despite their bad reputation.

    And what for? Getting CS moderators going through all that trouble tracking them down?

    Frankly speaking, I think CS moderators have enough stuff on their hands already, now with a new e-zine. Sometimes the buyer has to do some research, e.g., finding out more about the seller, checking out market rates, clarifying all Q&A with BW proof before bidding or even buying that product.

    There is so much moderators can do lah. Even Ebay is not perfect.

    Cheers,
    -Michelle-

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mich_2103
    Although they can be tracked down by the IP address but there will still be many ways he/she can come back again and trust me, there will STILL be people who may end up buying things from them despite their bad reputation.

    And what for? Getting CS moderators going through all that trouble tracking them down?

    Frankly speaking, I think CS moderators have enough stuff on their hands already, now with a new e-zine. Sometimes the buyer has to do some research, e.g., finding out more about the seller, checking out market rates, clarifying all Q&A with BW proof before bidding or even buying that product.

    There is so much moderators can do lah. Even Ebay is not perfect.

    Cheers,
    -Michelle-
    Need to mention that the feedback system at that dutch site is checked by only ONE person (by the owner of the site, although they have moderators too).....and I need to clarify one more thing:

    The feedback system is inherently more useful and in the interest of the SELLER.......the higher a rating he/she has, the more likely somene will buy from she/her........so there will be less chance of sellers trying to change their ID all the time, as this way they will have a harder time selling their products.

    Hong Sien

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mich_2103
    And sellers, don't be irritated when a potential buyer starts bargaining with you. Because ALL of us in this thread are buyers and as consumers, we want to get our money's worth so it is human nature to bargain for something that you like. As sellers, I guess it is important to tell your potential buyer(s) why you can't lower your price by supporting your reason(s).


    -Michelle-
    Why would I as a seller have to give you "supporting" reasons why I don't want to lower my price? That's an irrelevant suggestion

    Why don't you then suggest that BUYERS give reasons to justify why they want a lower price

    As far as I am concerned, NO ONE needs to give reasons what price they value an item at. Don't like price don't buy, don't like offer don't sell.
    Last edited by kahheng; 3rd November 2004 at 09:37 AM.

  7. #27

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by mich_2103
    Although they can be tracked down by the IP address but there will still be many ways he/she can come back again and trust me, there will STILL be people who may end up buying things from them despite their bad reputation.

    And what for? Getting CS moderators going through all that trouble tracking them down?

    Frankly speaking, I think CS moderators have enough stuff on their hands already, now with a new e-zine. Sometimes the buyer has to do some research, e.g., finding out more about the seller, checking out market rates, clarifying all Q&A with BW proof before bidding or even buying that product.

    There is so much moderators can do lah. Even Ebay is not perfect.

    Cheers,
    -Michelle-
    Whilst Ebay's user rating system is not perfect, whilst any feedback system cannot be 100% foolproof, it's FAR FAR better than not having them.

    Having an easy-to-use, publicly visible user history/feedback facility like what Hong Sien is suggesting here is precisely how you can find out more about any seller or buyer.

    FWIW, I don't think CS moderators need to work any harder with a feedback system in effect. Feedback systems are ultimately self-policing in nature with just the need for occasional step ins - just look at Ebay, don't tell me the Ebay admins have to work like sai to moderate the feedback system there? And they do hundreds of thousands of transactions a month.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by mich_2103
    Hey guys,
    I happened to come upon this thread while waiting for the US presidential election results.
    Waiting? Dan gu!

  9. #29
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    Not everybody is a heavy seller and buyer here. So Ebay kind of feedback may not work. Some people only buy things once in a blue moon.

  10. #30
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    I think if a seller/ buyer change his mind b4 meeting up, at least he/she should have basic courtesy to inform the other party, rather than stop answering phone calls/ SMS/ No-show. How difficult is that?

  11. #31

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    here's what i think.

    1. seller should disclose the condition of the product as accurately as possible. eg. if the builtin flash is not working properly, please disclose that.

    2. both seller and buyer will obviously want the best price. if buyer offers too low a price, seller can always tell the buyer so and move on.

    3. once a price has been agreed, it is bad to change it. both buyer and seller should not pull out even if a better offer comes along subsequently.

    4. even if price has been agreed upon, the deal is still subject to viewing. if the product is not to buyer's expectation ie. undisclosed flaws, actual condition does not match seller's description, then buyer should not be obliged to buy.

    5. if buyer needs to pull out due to shortage of funds, etc. preferably do so before the viewing. otherwise waste seller's time. but sometimes maybe no choice due to unforeseen circumstances. some integrity needed here

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by EOS User
    the potential buyers of this forum suck big time. I put up my 70-200 for sale at an attractive price of $750. Even after looking at the lens and even agreeing that the lens is in tip top condition, some shamless fools started telling me grandma and grandpapa stories that they have no money and can only offer $500. What the fc uk is this?
    Interestingly... I PMed you on your attractive offer but din get a reply... sigh... was willing to fork out cold hard cash at $800. Oh well....

    But yeah... I had one buyer who arranged to meet me and then suddenly disappeared .... then his PM, email, handphone all stopped working.

    Then there was this seller who promised to mail me the warranty becoz "he forgot to bring". But then he din mail me! I even took down his IC and home address pplus taken his mug shot... but aiyah... only a few dollars, not worth to hunt him down... eheh! Think he no longer reads this forum... oh well.


    You win some, you lose some....

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    I proposed this long ago to the admin but thesame reply. How do you know it will be abused? Don't have trust in your own forum fellows? :-)

    I am also active in a dutch photoforum and there they do have a feedback system that works:

    http://www.fotoapparatuur.net/Canon/...?sid=799141916

    Just click on the number in brackets: Peter Berger (1)

    Hong Sien
    auction sites like ebay charges for the transactions. they have in place an elaborate system that offers some protection

    CS is merely a forum - that facilitates the sale of items. While CS could implement a ratings system like www.fotoapparatuur.net, I am doubtful that resources should be channeled to this. It's already a free forum without advertising - that has done so well. Asking for additional features costs money - and I am not so sure if this money is worth it

    Moreover as I have pointed out, the ratings system could easily be abused. All one needs to do is to register multiple nicks or gather all his friends (over a period of time ) and give himself positive feedbacks over fictitious transactions. There are other problems as well - such as people giving negative feedbacks out of spite or other frivolous reasons. So I would view the ratings with a big pinch of salt

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by goering
    auction sites like ebay charges for the transactions. they have in place an elaborate system that offers some protection

    CS is merely a forum - that facilitates the sale of items. While CS could implement a ratings system like www.fotoapparatuur.net, I am doubtful that resources should be channeled to this. It's already a free forum without advertising - that has done so well. Asking for additional features costs money - and I am not so sure if this money is worth it

    Moreover as I have pointed out, the ratings system could easily be abused. All one needs to do is to register multiple nicks or gather all his friends (over a period of time ) and give himself positive feedbacks over fictitious transactions. There are other problems as well - such as people giving negative feedbacks out of spite or other frivolous reasons. So I would view the ratings with a big pinch of salt
    That dutch site is also a free site! So, that shouldn't be a reason no to follow it. Like I said all feedbacks are monitored manually, which is some work, but after seeing how many items are sold here I think it is doable. As for multiple nicks/ID's or negative feedback: there is always a way for the person to respond to any feedback. Let the people then decide if the person is still trustworthy to deal with. If this could be a problem why does it work in that Dutch site? Because Singaporeans are not trustworthy?.........Come on!


    Hong Sien

  15. #35
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    well its kinda common nowadays.. wad can we do ? cux everyone is loooking for a good deal and buy and we are looking for a good sell.. hopefully it meets our price... but then... its all part of the auction...

    theres nothing u can do.. unless u are firm with u price.. but if u are firm, pple might nt want to buy coz maybe its off their budget or simply u are selling it close to the market price even though its underutilised. but wad we didnt consider would be the annual/monthly depreciation of the product..

    what we were interested were to recover our loses in purchasing the item.. but anyway... we will have to be flexible if we want to sell out items...

    thats the spirit.. b fLexIble.. but everthing has to has a limit.. if not it wld be a total chaos.... hahaha

    my 2 cnts.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drudkh
    I think its a good practise for sellers to have a "start bidding from this price", so if anyone finds reasonable will definitely start to bid. otherwise he should realise its way to high and would reduce the price or keep it.
    Drukh recommendation is very safe and will not invite the low bidders if they are not wanted. Other sellers may sell differently by giving a very low base price to generate some interest and excitement in the small market. Their thread gets to the top for notice as well.
    So in any case, keeping things cool and enjoyable in the buying or selling process is more important.

  17. #37

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    This world consists of people with all kinds of behaviours, I will not take it too hard when encounter these people, on the other hand, I will do my part to follow the rules. I do quite a bit of buy/sell in both Clubsnap as well as Yahoo auction.

    I do meet alots of good people, very friendly and easy going. Usually the nasty one will not get to meet because the deal will not get through. For good deals, there is nothing to talk about, I want to bring out some example of bad encounters, nevertheless, don't get me worng, I have much more successful deal than these bad examples:

    1. I just posted a SB-28 in B & S forum and asking prince of $240, I received an enquiry of $120 . Just replied that it is too low, and he then replied "then how much is my offer?", I simply reply that it is reserved although it was not at that time.

    2. This was an interesting encountered in Yahoo Auction: I posted to sell an item, one person bidded the item at very close to closing time, then started to ask questions, in the middle of exchanging answer, the auction closed. He then decided that it was not what he want and wanted to backup. I was very angry with his approach, he should ask as much questions first before bidding, instead he bidded the item to secure it first then ask question to decide whether he want the item or not. There are many selfish people like this around. I finally gave him a bad rating, guess what has happened??? He returned me a bad rating with very funny reasons. Finally the item sold to the second higher bidder. I was angry with this guy because of first "Kiasu syndrom" second he returned a bad rating because I gave him one

    There are also flaws in rating system. The equivalent in Clubsnap to rating system is the number of posting and length of the c'naper registered. You are more likely to face problem with those who registered just to buy your item.
    Last edited by poh6702; 12th November 2004 at 08:11 AM.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by poh6702
    2. This was an interesting encountered in Yahoo Auction: I posted to sell an item, one person bidded the item at very close to closing time, then started to ask questions, in the middle of exchanging answer, the auction closed. He then decided that it was not what he want and wanted to backup. I was very angry with his approach, he should ask as much questions first before bidding, instead he bidded the item to secure it first then ask question to decide whether he want the item or not. There are many selfish people like this around. I finally gave him a bad rating, guess what has happened??? He returned me a bad rating with very funny reasons. Finally the item sold to the second higher bidder. I was angry with this guy because of first "Kiasu syndrom" second he returned a bad rating because I gave him one
    There are also sellers just would not answer your questions. Haha..

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bean
    There are also sellers just would not answer your questions. Haha..
    Then don;t take those sellers serious, I believe in customer service, so I will answer any questions asked....

    To Poh: looks like some people here think clubsnap BS forum is like a typical shopping experience in Singapore where one needs to bargain the price starting with half the price.....:-)

    Hong Sien

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