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Thread: Upgrading to DSLR - Any kind soul could advice?

  1. #1

    Default Upgrading to DSLR - Any kind soul could advice?

    Greetings to all

    I am a owner of Canon EOS500N for 7 years + and last Dec I bought my first digital cam Dimage Z1 only to find that I can't survive with it as I am so used to the quality and functions of SLR. Therefore here I am seeking advice on choosing which DSLR to purchase.

    I personally like 10D as my wedding photographer produced wonderful pics for me thru it. However the price is quite steep so I am considering betw 300D & D70. I would appreciate some comments on these two.

    May I know also what's the price of new 10D, 300D & D70 currently?

    Thank you all.

    Best regards

  2. #2

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    Hi,

    Just to share my 2 cents with you.

    Do you have a lot of canon lens? If yes, it might be cheaper to stay with canon. D70 is quite a good cam and if I will to choose it with a brand new 300d I would go for the D70. But you would have to re-purchase lens for nikon. Having said that, 300d is quite capable of providing great pics too.

    If you want, you can get a 2nd hand 10D. The price should be less than d70 but higher than a 300d. 10D price (used) have dropped drastically since the introduction of 20D

  3. #3

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    Hi icyflame,

    Thank you very much for your advice. I do not have many Canon lens(infact only the one that came with the camera). That's y I have been considering D70 also. I have been trying to research a bit about 10D, D70 and 300D. They all seem pretty good... I seem to like D70 more but are rather concern about the lens which are quite steep. Technically speaking are there a lot of differences? How are Canon lens' prices compare to Nikon generally? (Sorry to ask these as I have not been checking the price frequently)

    I appreciate your time in sharing... Thank you very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreakThru
    Hi icyflame,

    Thank you very much for your advice. I do not have many Canon lens(infact only the one that came with the camera). That's y I have been considering D70 also. I have been trying to research a bit about 10D, D70 and 300D. They all seem pretty good... I seem to like D70 more but are rather concern about the lens which are quite steep. Technically speaking are there a lot of differences? How are Canon lens' prices compare to Nikon generally? (Sorry to ask these as I have not been checking the price frequently)

    I appreciate your time in sharing... Thank you very much.
    Personally? I feel that both have their lenses priced competitively, aka not a huge significant difference. While D70 is a nice camera, you should consider the system you own now. Go with Canon, and if you can't afford a nice 20D/10D, save up, don't rush.

  5. #5

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    Thanks Vulpix0r,

    Do you happen to know how much is the price of the brand new 10D?

    Thank you.

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    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    think this has been discussed b4 on newbie, canon and nikon thread. inevitably, this will degenerate to a canon vs nikon flame war.

    seriously tho... breakthru - why do u want to move to DSLR? have u thot abt it? yeah. sure. u get instant feedback on ur pics, it looks cool etc... but, do u have a very compelling reason to move to DSLR?

    DSLR is an expensive investment. as Vulpix0r has rightly pointed out, its not a camera per se, but the camera system. once u are into a particular system, unless u are willing to suffer a huge lost of investment, its very difficult to change systems mid-way.

    think abt wat u want to shoot most often (not HOPE to shoot most often). think abt how much time u wish to spend using ur DSLR, and the amt of $ u willing to invest in. we always like to think that our spending ends with the purchase of the camera. boy.... dats ONLY the beginning... after the cam is the bag, the flash, fast memory cards, more lens etc....

    if u really want to enjoy the thrills of shooting DSLR, suggest u browse thru websites like www.dpreview.com or www.steves-digicams.com then try to hook up with someone u know who uses DSLR and try it out urself on the various brands on the mkt.

    if after considering the cost of ownership, and u think its too expensive or u will not be making full use of ur investment, perhaps u can consider alternatives like prosumer cams (eg the excellent leica based panasonic FZ-10 or FZ-20), which gives u almost all the functions and feel of the DLSR, minus the ability to change lens (among others).

    cheers!
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

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    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    BreakThru, this is a good advise from Yoda master.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  8. #8

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    If you're not tight on budget, go with 20D. But if you are, go with 300D or a used 10D.

    300D has less digital noise compared to D70 due to its CMOS sensor. I find it to be a very important factor in selecting DSLR.

    Another thing is that Canon is always setting the benchmark for DSLR. Few years ago Nikon rules the analog SLR world, but lately with the advent of digital camera, Canon is emerging as a leading player in both Compact Digital Camera and DSLR. You should consider this fact when choosing between systems, so that your investment in lenses, etc. will not go to waste few years down the road.

  9. #9

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    Good morning all

    Once again, thanks for all the good advices. I think I really should think through like what nightwolf75 had suggested. Seriously speaking, I decided to go digital is because I am a person whom likes to take candid shots and also a lot on macro. Candid shots are killing me in terms of cost with my SLR. That's why I think in the long run, DSLR will be more cost effective as continuous shots are not so costly.

    Nevertheless, I understand the investment in camera is never the beginning and the end... that's also why I am seeking advices to avoid any stupid decision.

    I heard about the noise issue for D70 compared to 300D. I shall look into this. Does anyone knows how long has 10D been in the market? I also heard something about some problems in 20D... is it true?

    Thank you all

    Best regards

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott
    300D has less digital noise compared to D70 due to its CMOS sensor. I find it to be a very important factor in selecting DSLR.

    Lol... who in the hell told you that?! The 300D may well have less digital noise (Noise can be categorized differently and is subjective anyway), but it's definitely not simply because it's a CMOS sensor. Following your train of thought, those cheapo $100+ CMOS cameras will be better quality than CCD ones and we both know that's not the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreakThru
    Good morning all

    Once again, thanks for all the good advices. I think I really should think through like what nightwolf75 had suggested. Seriously speaking, I decided to go digital is because I am a person whom likes to take candid shots and also a lot on macro. Candid shots are killing me in terms of cost with my SLR. That's why I think in the long run, DSLR will be more cost effective as continuous shots are not so costly.

    Nevertheless, I understand the investment in camera is never the beginning and the end... that's also why I am seeking advices to avoid any stupid decision.

    I heard about the noise issue for D70 compared to 300D. I shall look into this. Does anyone knows how long has 10D been in the market? I also heard something about some problems in 20D... is it true?

    Thank you all

    Best regards
    Yup, digital will definitely help with your style of shooting. I end up throwing away 90% of my macros! At this point, the D70 is really a great camera for the price, and if you were to consider it on its merits alone, probably is the best value for money DSLR right now. There is some conventional wisdom floating around that Nikon lenses are more expensive than their Canon counterparts, but I haven't seen that to be the case. I do think that Canon are ahead in the digital game right now and possibly for a while to come. The 300D, 10D are all very capable cameras, and the 20D has extremely impressive specs. You wouldn't go far wrong with either route, just toss a coin!

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    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    breakthru - guess u are set on a DSLR? do note - nowadays, even phd (press here dummy aka point & shoot) and prosumer cams comes with macro functions. for a DSLR, u need (recommended) a dedicated macro lens to shoot macros. not to mention a good tripod, and for the really serious shooters, ring flashes.

    do note. 10D is out of production. u might still find a couple of new sets at places like harvey norman or courts. but, by and large, most cam retail outlets dun have any more new sets.

    20D is the replacement cam for 10D. yes, there are initial teething problems of the occasional lens-lockup. u can read abt it in the canon sub-forum.

    300D is an excellent beginner's DSLR, and so is the D70. the debate on which is better is done to death. supporters and detractors of these cams in CS here has been arguing over it ad nauseum. but, the point is to try out the cams and see which is better. remember. the 300D is the Cnet Asia Editor's DSLR choice of 2003, D70 for 2004. ie - either cam u can't go wrong. btw, i'm not promoting or trashing either cams. i've used both - and both have their good and bad points.

    as for noise problems - u can read all abt it in the dpreview's noise tests. both cams are excellent in pic quality. however, wat do u wish to shoot? in low light conditions, unless u use flash or have a very fast lens, noise will appear even on the best of cams (eg canon 1Ds, nikon D2h etc). noise will come with u push the ISO higher. generally, 300D's images are good up to ISO 800 (based on my usage). i'm not sure abt D70, so i won't say much. if u are bothered by noise (which is inherent in all DSLRs and digicams), u can mitigate it by shooting at slower shutter speeds (not recommended for hand-holding tho), buying fast lens (anything under f4) or a good flash. these solutions will allow u to shoot at low ISO settings and/or normal shutter speeds of 1/125 or 1/60.

    oh yeah. some say CMOS better, others say CCD better. IMO, doesn't really matter. more imptly for a shooter is to recognise the inherent pros and cons of their equipment and work with or ard these advantages or disadvantages. photography is not abt equipment, and translating wat u see into moving and meaningful images - first for u, then for others.

    there are also software (eg Neat Image and Noise Ninja) that helps u to remove noise. these software are not perfect tho. but it helps.

    hope it helps, breakthru?
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75
    oh yeah. some say CMOS better, others say CCD better. IMO, doesn't really matter. more imptly for a shooter is to recognise the inherent pros and cons of their equipment and work with or ard these advantages or disadvantages. photography is not abt equipment, and translating wat u see into moving and meaningful images - first for u, then for others.
    Great advice. Apart from the pros and cons of CMOS and CCD... noise is more affected by the effectiveness of noise-reduction algorithms and sensor design--with regard to pixel size and fill factor (20D has better micro lenses to make up for the smaller pixel size). You can't just base the performance of noise or sensitivity of the sensor on CMOS vs CCD alone. Especially, when each manufacturer has its own different implementations among CMOS and CCD sensors themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreakThru
    Greetings to all

    I am a owner of Canon EOS500N for 7 years + and last Dec I bought my first digital cam Dimage Z1 only to find that I can't survive with it as I am so used to the quality and functions of SLR. Therefore here I am seeking advice on choosing which DSLR to purchase.

    I
    Best regards
    what is the 'quality and functions' of SLR that you can't survive without?

    getting a DSLR Body is just part of the equation, you need to pair up with some lens also.

    And do you like to spend the same amount of time shooting / post processing your pictures?

    Questions for you to answer and the people here will give more helpful advice.

  15. #15

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    Hi all

    Your advices definitely helpped me a lot! nightwolf75, I appreciate them very much.

    I have to say that I do not have much issue with close-ups using Dimage Z1, its more with the candid shots which point & shoot cameras just aren't fast enough as compared SLR or DSLR(correct me if I am wrong).

    nightwolf75, I've got your advice now and I think I shall try these cameras out and choose one I am comfortable with... Thanks. However, I will appreciate if you could recommend a set of lenses for Canon and if possible Nikon as well, based on my usage (close-up, candid). Frankly, I am not so good with lenses as I had been pretty satisfied with my old lenses' performance so I did not follow the market for a long while... need to re-learn from your guys.

    Hi Snowcrash, i was refering to Dimage Z1 about quality and functions, not SLR. and yes, I will be spending more time than in the past.

    Thanks to all of you!

    Best regards!

  16. #16
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    hi, breakthru!

    haha... all of us are here to learn from one another. at least u got a head start in photography! i only started seriously in apr 04.

    first thing first, i'm not a macro shooter. so, if i screw up on the equipment recommendation, i hope the others will correct me.

    breakthru - i know very little abt nikon. but, i think you can ask the nice people in nikon subforum for advice. for canon, there are a few dedicated macro lens. they are

    a) EF 50mm/f2.8 compact macro,
    b) EF 100mm/f2.8 macro USM, and
    c) EF 180mm/f3.5L macro USM

    these are the most common macro lenses u can find here. i believe most canon macro shooters have the EF 100mm/f2.8 lens. the 50mm, IMO, is too short range, while the 180mm is a tad expensive becos its a L-lens (top of the line canon lens).

    another non-canon macro lens that is very popular is the Tamron 90mm/f2.8 macro Di lens. this is a new series, esp created for DSLR (also can use on film) and has 1:1 magification - ie life-size, for macro shooting.

    there are other macro shooting equipment to get - extension tubes (lengthens the minimum focusing distance of ur lens), and life-size converters. most people i see buy the tubes.

    for candid shooting, are u shooting indoors or outdoors? if indoors, depending on ur budget, these are some lens i think are quite useful.

    a) EF 50mm/f1.8 USM
    b) EF 28-105mm/3.5-4.5 II USM
    c) EF 28-135mm/f3.5-5.6 IS USM

    the 50mm, tho cannot zoom, is one of the best value-for-money, fast lens ard. for abt $160 (new) or $120 (old), u get a pretty good lens dat can shoot in low light.

    the (c) lens has a built-in stablising motors. something like the minolta anti-shake and panasonic OIS system. it allows u to hand-hold and shoot at lower shutter speeds without getting blur pics, within reason of course.

    for outdoors, (b) and (c) are excellent choices. these are good general purpose lens. if u wish to have more zoom range, tamron and sigma both have lenses dat goes up to 200mm or 300mm.

    for lenses in general, u can go to www.fredmiranda.com they have excellent user reviews abt canon, nikon, sigma and tokina lenses. another good place to go is www.pcphotoreview.com they review everything under the sun about digital photography.

    hope it helps?
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

  17. #17

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    It sure did help. Thank you very much!

    I think photography is not only a skill but also very much relating to talent (not denying the fact that experience counts). Therefore it does not really matter when we start but how we end. I have seen many who have been in this line as professionals but produced rather common and unimpressive pictures. And also I had met people who were new but just have the talent or wonderful sense of composing pictures that really produced amazingly good pics!

    I had neglected this hobby of mine for awhile as I was so much drawn to other hobbies & sports. Infact, I have to admit that I had even forgotten a lot of basics till a year back when I started again with my SLR and Dimage Z1.

    I think being humble and seek the councel of wise, good and kind people is the best thing to do in life, in all things. I thank all for all the advices/comments I received, especially to you nightwolf75.

    Hope that more people will pour in their comments/advice also that I can learn more. Thanks!

  18. #18

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    yeah, some people just have that eye, born with that eye to see oppportunities for shots taking. Just like stock market, some are very good is guessing the trend and some are just not fated to get involved.

    However, the wonderful thing about photography is somehow, even the most dumbest dimwit, can learn photography and produce decent, if not great, images, provided that he or she has the determination to try and try.

    For most of us, we have to keep that passion aflame and make the best use of technology to help us in our quest. The digital realm has helped many beginners as they have a "live" preview of how their images look like and can remedy on the spot. AND of course, the standard of photography is pushed to a next higher level with this technology aid.

    I foresee a dip in digital SLR price in time to come, and there will be a day where film is eventually eliminated. Kodak is taking this lead into the digital realm! Now we are talking about 12 megapixel sensors in D SLR, no more those 3 megapixels in the old days!

  19. #19

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    If you are afraid of lens costs, you can try some of the excellent stuff from tamron/sigma. There are some well-known good stuff like 120-300/2.8 or 50-500 which either C or N also don't have, and there are some excellent glass like tamron 90mm macro which surpass C/N lenses in some areas.

  20. #20
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    2100 - very true. breakthru, for the tamron lens which i've mentioned, it shld be available in shop from next week.

    as for jumping into DSLR, if u can, hang on for a while as there will be Sitex 2004 at the end of nov 04. wait till then and see if canon, nikon etc... are selling their DSLRs with offers? u can go and see the cams on offer. try try a bit. take home their brochures and sleep on it for a few days b4 buying them. by dat time, i think u would have ample time to try out a few cams and decide on which one.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

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