Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

  1. #1
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Question Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Hello to all the clubsnap members will like your help in some area. First of all I do own a DSLR for like 1yrs+ near 2 but only recently I’m active in photography as I tot its be a waste to let it sleep in my dry cabinet so I always bring it out to shoot events(only for relatives and friends) also with friend to shoot city/landscape and sunrise/set. Recently I helped my cousin to shoot during her baby “man yue” or “full month”. My setup for the event is Canon 500D + 17-55 + 580EX MK2(first time using flash so set to TTL mode) but I realize the photo are quite yellowish and I goggles and know that there are thing call “18% grey custom white-balance” thing.

    Question:
    1) So if I were to get the 18% grey card and took a photo of it, do I need to follow any specific setting to take the photo of the 18% grey card?

    2) Once I set it as my custom white-balance does that mean it will suit all environments? Or different environments need different custom white-balance? e.g(18% grey, black & white? or others?)

    3) If different environments need different custom white-balance under what condition u will know what environments use what type of white-balance?

    4) Any pro out there to post some “auto white-balance” and “custom white-balance” photo under different environments to show the different? As I don’t have the 18% grey card to tryout now tho. Or any good link so I can research and understand more.

    Lastly THANKS for taking your time to read up this post!.

  2. #2
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Punggol, Singapore
    Posts
    21,902

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    Hello to all the clubsnap members will like your help in some area. First of all I do own a DSLR for like 1yrs+ near 2 but only recently I’m active in photography as I tot its be a waste to let it sleep in my dry cabinet so I always bring it out to shoot events(only for relatives and friends) also with friend to shoot city/landscape and sunrise/set. Recently I helped my cousin to shoot during her baby “man yue” or “full month”. My setup for the event is Canon 500D + 17-55 + 580EX MK2(first time using flash so set to TTL mode) but I realize the photo are quite yellowish and I goggles and know that there are thing call “18% grey custom white-balance” thing.

    Question:
    1) So if I were to get the 18% grey card and took a photo of it, do I need to follow any specific setting to take the photo of the 18% grey card?
    please follow your camera user manual for how to set custom WB

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    2) Once I set it as my custom white-balance does that mean it will suit all environments? Or different environments need different custom white-balance? e.g(18% grey, black & white? or others?)
    No, the custom WB is only good under the same lighting condition, once the lighting, environment changes, the WB will change too, but not so noticeable to our human eyes as our brain compensated it.

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    3) If different environments need different custom white-balance under what condition u will know what environments use what type of white-balance?
    you can use preset WB, it is close but not perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    4) Any pro out there to post some “auto white-balance” and “custom white-balance” photo under different environments to show the different? As I don’t have the 18% grey card to tryout now tho. Or any good link so I can research and understand more.

    Lastly THANKS for taking your time to read up this post!.
    a gray card is the best choice but any object neutral in tone can be use for setting custom WB, anyway, a perfect, zero in WB may not depict skin tone pleasantly, so most people prefer to shot RAW and do WB adjustment during the post.

    Hope this help.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  3. #3

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    I shoot in RAW with auto white balance and adjust accordingly when post processing.

    Anyway, if the ambient lighting does not match your flash light, you will need to gel your 580EXII also.

  4. #4
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Hi thanks for the guide!

    So for question 2. If I were to shoot indoor or in hotel condition I will need to setup my flash to a manual mode to get a constant effect ar for skintone or so? and hmm okie will learn to edit raw photo. Really thanks to answer all my question!! Looking forward to shoot again! To prepare for 2 wedding shoot end of year.(not main photographer just shooting) think have to learn how the canon flash setting and function. THANKS!!

  5. #5
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by tecnica View Post
    I shoot in RAW with auto white balance and adjust accordingly when post processing.

    Anyway, if the ambient lighting does not match your flash light, you will need to gel your 580EXII also.
    Hmm gel? Those color plastic put on the flash? I see seem that I stil have a long research to do before I'm really for the wedding shoot. Thanks! Will research about gel thing.

  6. #6
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    And ya.. Cause to edit the photo using photoshop one by one will be quite long tho.. as I normally don't really care about shuttle count and shoot as much as possible as it's once a life's time thing so I will rather shoot and shoot till I feel it's enough. So maybe I try to focus on custom white-balance and gel first?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Manual mode or not, it does not matter. But I suggest you stick to TTL mode and compensate for the power as and when needed.

    What affects the white balance, is the colour temperature. Those colour gels will help to match the flash colour temperature with the ambient lighting.

    This puts the overall white balance(ambient + flash) in place, so that the camera can correct it to its best ability.

    Failure to match the colour temperature, will result in pictures with weird white balance. Even the best of the best full frame body cannot correct this.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    And ya.. Cause to edit the photo using photoshop one by one will be quite long tho.. as I normally don't really care about shuttle count and shoot as much as possible as it's once a life's time thing so I will rather shoot and shoot till I feel it's enough. So maybe I try to focus on custom white-balance and gel first?
    Focus on exposure and composition first. White balance if you can match it, good for you. Else you can correct it during post processing since you will be shooting RAW. That said, you need to still take note of the colour temperature issue.

    And you can try using lightroom to post process your pictures. Imo, it's much more productive on a batch basis.
    Last edited by tecnica; 10th October 2011 at 12:09 AM.

  9. #9
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by tecnica View Post
    Focus on exposure and composition first. White balance if you can match it, good for you. Else you can correct it during post processing since you will be shooting RAW. That said, you need to still take note of the colour temperature issue.

    And you can try using lightroom to post process your pictures. Imo, it's much more productive on a batch basis.
    Okie so I'm going to focus on exposure and composition is there any scope for it? cause if I were to type on google it's will show few Thousand link tho and i'm not really sure what to focus about exposure and same for composition as I only recently like 2-3mth ago just really spending time and active in photography. All I know about exposure is the amount of light go in the camera In certain time. And composition I'm not really sure what is it but will google about it tho some guide line will be good. Thanks!
    Last edited by teckteck86; 10th October 2011 at 12:32 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    Hmm gel? Those color plastic put on the flash? I see seem that I stil have a long research to do before I'm really for the wedding shoot. Thanks! Will research about gel thing.
    Those colour gel that you mentioned, they are very important should your scene light temperature doesn't match your flash temperature. When you flash power is higher, you get your subject lit using the temperature of the flash light (with gel). When your ambient is brighter, you get your subject lit using the temperature of the ambient light source. So for getting the best well lit subject, try your best to match the flash light temperature with your ambient or you will at times get multiple light temperature on your subject which no white balance adjustment will make them looks better.

    I have several events (art galleries) and a couple of wedding experiences and that is what I learnt from experience.
    D3S|N70-200|N24-70|N24-85|N50f1.4|N35f2|SB800|SB900|Yashica GS|S95
    www.flickr.com/photos/davidktw

  11. #11

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by tecnica View Post
    Manual mode or not, it does not matter. But I suggest you stick to TTL mode and compensate for the power as and when needed.

    What affects the white balance, is the colour temperature. Those colour gels will help to match the flash colour temperature with the ambient lighting.

    This puts the overall white balance(ambient + flash) in place, so that the camera can correct it to its best ability.

    Failure to match the colour temperature, will result in pictures with weird white balance. Even the best of the best full frame body cannot correct this.
    I beg to differ on the manual mode. A lot of times I depended on manual mode to ensure right DOF plus right shutter speed and let TTL flash to ensure right exposure of the subject. For low light events such as galleries, wedding events. Knowing your manual mode and how the aperture and minimum shutter speed affects your image is paramount to delivery high quality images. That is of course if the composition is already in place.

    In fact first pace events such as wedding, you have to know your settings and how it reacts with the scene to give you the best outcome. Not knowing it will means you miss a lot of important shot, because you don't get 2nd chance for the laughter and sad expression that may show at the nick of time.
    D3S|N70-200|N24-70|N24-85|N50f1.4|N35f2|SB800|SB900|Yashica GS|S95
    www.flickr.com/photos/davidktw

  12. #12
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Talking Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kwok View Post
    Those colour gel that you mentioned, they are very important should your scene light temperature doesn't match your flash temperature. When you flash power is higher, you get your subject lit using the temperature of the flash light (with gel). When your ambient is brighter, you get your subject lit using the temperature of the ambient light source. So for getting the best well lit subject, try your best to match the flash light temperature with your ambient or you will at times get multiple light temperature on your subject which no white balance adjustment will make them looks better.


    I have several events (art galleries) and a couple of wedding experiences and that is what I learnt from experience.
    Hi thanks for the guide so can I say if the environment lighting is orange in color I will need to Place a orange gel on my flash? Thanks.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    Hi thanks for the guide so can I say if the environment lighting is orange in color I will need to Place a orange gel on my flash? Thanks.
    Yes you better be, or any different areas of the scene, depending on whether you are nearer and further away from the light sources, either your flash or the light source will lit up the subject more and result in different light balance on the subject. It is hard to post process such picture if the white balance mixture is too much, you end up with reddish cast when you adjust the temperature even for RAW.
    D3S|N70-200|N24-70|N24-85|N50f1.4|N35f2|SB800|SB900|Yashica GS|S95
    www.flickr.com/photos/davidktw

  14. #14
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    I see. Does the ceiling or wall color matter? Cos I will assume that I should shoot the flash to ceiling and bounce back? As for flash using manual from attending a flash lesson conducted by clubsnap member stated the flash if we were to set manual flash example 2meter away from the subject and got the correct lighting for all the shoot we will have to maintain the same distance? As I'm not a main photographer and wont think I can always maintain the constant distance from the wedding couple tho.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    I see. Does the ceiling or wall color matter? Cos I will assume that I should shoot the flash to ceiling and bounce back? As for flash using manual from attending a flash lesson conducted by clubsnap member stated the flash if we were to set manual flash example 2meter away from the subject and got the correct lighting for all the shoot we will have to maintain the same distance? As I'm not a main photographer and wont think I can always maintain the constant distance from the wedding couple tho.
    I believe what was taught to you is right. But you have to be flexible, you can't expect that all the times the light source that is shining upon the subject is constant right ? The colour of the wall does affect your subject and hence you need to change your white balance to compensate, which isn't a big issue. Suppose if the scene is pretty neutral, and you don't need to keep the mood of the light casted, then I say AWB is your best tool. If you need to keep the mood due to some coloured light sources, then I highly recommend you fixed your WB. You can store a couple of different scenes as you identified around you as different settings and switch between them when necessary.

    When you are nearer to the subject, you have to stop down the flash power at times to not blown out your subject face with the flash. That's true, but I guess when you are at the scene, you don't really have a lot of time to ensure distance, when it's close, you need to know it's too close and you need to stop down your flash a bit. But doing so will therefore means your ambient light will seep in more, thats why my earlier post on ensuring your flash gel gives the same temperature as the surrounding is important to ensure as much consistency as possible. Theory apart, when you are at the scene, you need to improvise and react as accordingly. That's why an experience photographer cost more.

    Don't think that you are not the main photographer and therefore you mean less and can focus less. If your objective is to deliver good photos, then you are just as important and should be stringent to your quality as the main photographer. Should there be a need to piece up all photos together, surely you don't want the album to look like some are well done and some are lousy pics right ?

    Secondary photographer role, as I understand, is to cover different perspective of the scene. Not that he/she is less important. The main photographer should take lead and instruct the secondary photographer to assume the right position so as to not double cover the same scene.
    D3S|N70-200|N24-70|N24-85|N50f1.4|N35f2|SB800|SB900|Yashica GS|S95
    www.flickr.com/photos/davidktw

  16. #16

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kwok View Post
    I beg to differ on the manual mode. A lot of times I depended on manual mode to ensure right DOF plus right shutter speed and let TTL flash to ensure right exposure of the subject. For low light events such as galleries, wedding events. Knowing your manual mode and how the aperture and minimum shutter speed affects your image is paramount to delivery high quality images. That is of course if the composition is already in place.

    In fact first pace events such as wedding, you have to know your settings and how it reacts with the scene to give you the best outcome. Not knowing it will means you miss a lot of important shot, because you don't get 2nd chance for the laughter and sad expression that may show at the nick of time.
    i'm afraid TS is referring to the flash being in manual mode, not the camera being in M mode.

  17. #17
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    lil red dot
    Posts
    21,627
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Use a CTO gel on your flash, set your WB to tungsten and you are done.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by tecnica View Post
    i'm afraid TS is referring to the flash being in manual mode, not the camera being in M mode.
    Ah... mistaken then.
    D3S|N70-200|N24-70|N24-85|N50f1.4|N35f2|SB800|SB900|Yashica GS|S95
    www.flickr.com/photos/davidktw

  19. #19
    Member teckteck86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kwok View Post
    I believe what was taught to you is right. But you have to be flexible, you can't expect that all the times the light source that is shining upon the subject is constant right ? The colour of the wall does affect your subject and hence you need to change your white balance to compensate, which isn't a big issue. Suppose if the scene is pretty neutral, and you don't need to keep the mood of the light casted, then I say AWB is your best tool. If you need to keep the mood due to some coloured light sources, then I highly recommend you fixed your WB. You can store a couple of different scenes as you identified around you as different settings and switch between them when necessary.

    When you are nearer to the subject, you have to stop down the flash power at times to not blown out your subject face with the flash. That's true, but I guess when you are at the scene, you don't really have a lot of time to ensure distance, when it's close, you need to know it's too close and you need to stop down your flash a bit. But doing so will therefore means your ambient light will seep in more, thats why my earlier post on ensuring your flash gel gives the same temperature as the surrounding is important to ensure as much consistency as possible. Theory apart, when you are at the scene, you need to improvise and react as accordingly. That's why an experience photographer cost more.

    Don't think that you are not the main photographer and therefore you mean less and can focus less. If your objective is to deliver good photos, then you are just as important and should be stringent to your quality as the main photographer. Should there be a need to piece up all photos together, surely you don't want the album to look like some are well done and some are lousy pics right ?

    Secondary photographer role, as I understand, is to cover different perspective of the scene. Not that he/she is less important. The main photographer should take lead and instruct the secondary photographer to assume the right position so as to not double cover the same scene.
    i see thanks! but actually erm its my cousin and brother wedding. i'm a guest ar. not the main or secondary. and thanks for the guidance!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Use a CTO gel on your flash, set your WB to tungsten and you are done.
    okie will try!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Need Help in Custom WhiteBalance!

    Quote Originally Posted by teckteck86 View Post
    i see thanks! but actually erm its my cousin and brother wedding. i'm a guest ar. not the main or secondary. and thanks for the guidance!

    okie will try!
    If you are the guest. Then yah. Enjoy the dinner, the abalone, the shark fins etc... and the moments. lolx.... wedding photographer is hard work man.... Photographers here doing wedding would agree.
    D3S|N70-200|N24-70|N24-85|N50f1.4|N35f2|SB800|SB900|Yashica GS|S95
    www.flickr.com/photos/davidktw

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •