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Thread: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

  1. #1

    Default using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Hi

    I think many of us cannot justify the cost of buying a FF camera. So what can you do if u like full body bokeh portrait ? the natural choice will be 35mm f1.4. Samyang is the cheapest option here.

    But I don't really like the bokeh i see in the images taken using a 35mm f1.4, even on a FF like 5D.

    For bokeh, the longer focal length is still the best... so the FF or even medium format, large format clearly has the advantage here for shallow depth of field images.

    see for yourself:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinematic/5958279940/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114251169/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114252145/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114248903/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114811362/

    this of course should applies to all 35mm lens , not just Samyang.

  2. #2
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    i think this applies to samyang only.

    the bokeh should be the same even on FF and crop.

    both samyang glass and canon glass is different, bokeh will be different as well.

    the number of blades for the two is different too if i am not wrong, this blades will affect the bokeh.
    Last edited by sinned79; 7th October 2011 at 04:32 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    What's a "bokeh portrait"?

    Sounds like the camera shop salesman, anyhow using the word bokeh. :P
    Alpha

  4. #4

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    What's a "bokeh portrait"?

    Sounds like the camera shop salesman, anyhow using the word bokeh. :P
    photo with bokeh lor.

  5. #5

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    i think this applies to samyang only.

    the bokeh should be the same even on FF and crop.

    both samyang glass and canon glass is different, bokeh will be different as well.

    the number of blades (or elements if u call it) for the two is different too if i am not wrong, this blades will affect the bokeh.
    i mean the blurr is not enough.. unlike those produce by longer focal length..

    see when u free i try your 35mm to test it out.

  6. #6

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100 View Post
    photo with bokeh lor.
    You mean photo with a blurred background. "Photo with bokeh" is also wrong (since bokeh is a description of the quality of blur, not blur itself) and can apply to any image that has any section blurred, no matter how little.
    Alpha

  7. #7

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    You mean photo with a blurred background. "Photo with bokeh" is also wrong (since bokeh is a description of the quality of blur, not blur itself) and can apply to any image that has any section blurred, no matter how little.
    oh i see. tks alot.. i will remember this when i become camera salesman next time

  8. #8
    Moderator ziploc's Avatar
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    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100 View Post
    Hi

    I think many of us cannot justify the cost of buying a FF camera. So what can you do if u like full body bokeh portrait ? the natural choice will be 35mm f1.4. Samyang is the cheapest option here.

    But I don't really like the bokeh i see in the images taken using a 35mm f1.4, even on a FF like 5D.

    For bokeh, the longer focal length is still the best... so the FF or even medium format, large format clearly has the advantage here for shallow depth of field images.

    see for yourself:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinematic/5958279940/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114251169/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114252145/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114248903/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114811362/

    this of course should applies to all 35mm lens , not just Samyang.
    There are basically 2 factors here: DOF and perspective compression. DOF is deeper at wide angle and hence you get less background blur. Similarly, longer focal length magnifies the background resulting in larger "dots" and hence looks more blur. So yes, to acheive blurrer background you need to use longer lenses.

  9. #9
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100

    i mean the blurr is not enough.. unlike those produce by longer focal length..

    see when u free i try your 35mm to test it out.
    Actually the difference in the amount of background blur is caused by subject to camera distance. If your camera is at the same distance from subject even if you swap to a FF the amount of background blur is try same. But when on the FF, to get the same size of the subject in the frame, you have to move in closer. That decrease in subject to camera distance is the reason why you get more background blur.

  10. #10

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Actually the difference in the amount of background blur is caused by subject to camera distance. If your camera is at the same distance from subject even if you swap to a FF the amount of background blur is try same. But when on the FF, to get the same size of the subject in the frame, you have to move in closer. That decrease in subject to camera distance is the reason why you get more background blur.
    your signature says MR rocks!!

    u got yourself some MF camera? haha

  11. #11

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
    Similarly, longer focal length magnifies the background resulting in larger "dots" and hence looks more blur.
    tks. learn something new today

  12. #12
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100

    your signature says MR rocks!!

    u got yourself some MF camera? haha
    LOL. MF can mean many things.

  13. #13
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100

    tks. learn something new today
    Longer focal length also gives you more compression. That is why some portrait photographers like to use long lenses.

  14. #14

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    alamak, I just spent 2k+ on the 35mm f1.4....

    waste my money #$#!%

  15. #15

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    alamak, I just spent 2k+ on the 35mm f1.4....

    waste my money #$#!%
    Why did you buy it? There must be a good reason.
    Alpha

  16. #16

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Why did you buy it? There must be a good reason.
    I bought it to shoot portraits of my family on my upcoming Trip.

    I have the 14-24mm and 70-200mm so the 35mm is a nice addition. Frankly, when I buy 35mm f1.4, the intention is not to blur the background into oblivion. One of the idea of taking travel portraits for me is the background. It is nice to blur the background a little so the subject pops out though. At 35mm and shooting full body portraits, I THINK I might need f1.4 to get the kind of blur I want. Especially sometimes my subject don't really fill up the frame as I want to show a bit more of the places I go...

    I think the 35mm f1.4 is a very unique lens, hopefullly it will give me a different kind of picture. The 14-24mm and 70-200mm are very distinctive lens.
    Last edited by alantkh; 7th October 2011 at 07:45 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh

    I bought it to shoot portraits of my family on my upcoming Trip.

    I have the 14-24mm and 70-200mm so the 35mm is a nice addition. Frankly, when I buy 35mm f1.4, the intention is not to blur the background into oblivion. One of the idea of taking travel portraits for me is the background. It is nice to blur the background a little so the subject pops out though. At 35mm and shooting full body portraits, I THINK I might need f1.4 to get the kind of blur I want. Especially sometimes my subject don't really fill up the frame as I want to show a bit more of the places I go...

    I think the 35mm f1.4 is a very unique lens, hopefullly it will give me a different kind of picture. The 14-24mm and 70-200mm are very distinctive lens.
    I am sure ur 35 wun disappoint u!

  18. #18

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100 View Post
    Hi

    I think many of us cannot justify the cost of buying a FF camera. So what can you do if u like full body bokeh portrait ? the natural choice will be 35mm f1.4. Samyang is the cheapest option here.

    But I don't really like the bokeh i see in the images taken using a 35mm f1.4, even on a FF like 5D.

    For bokeh, the longer focal length is still the best... so the FF or even medium format, large format clearly has the advantage here for shallow depth of field images.

    see for yourself:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinematic/5958279940/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114251169/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114252145/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114248903/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114811362/

    this of course should applies to all 35mm lens , not just Samyang.

    You don't need a lens.
    You need a technique

    http://blog.buiphotography.com/2009/...th-directions/


    Its also good to just say that you want a shallow DOF portrait, rather than use the term now commonly abused here as 'bokeh shot', (bokeh is only referencing to the quality of the OOF rendering).
    If you need shallow DOF, the factors are subject distance, aperture and bkgnd distance. (no guarantee that bokeh is 'good')
    If bokeh is wanted (subjective as to what looks appealing), then it has something to do with lens design and bkgnd type.

  19. #19
    Member SyncGuy's Avatar
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    Default

    Hey, I'm quite a noob here but pertaining to your "bokeh" background with regards to background effect, I think it has got to do mostly with your aperture settings.

    From what I understand how aperture settings work, the lower your f-stop, the more pronounced the background blurring is.

    Therefore, I would think that you will need a higher f-stop? Too high and everything in the pic will be sharp, including the background along with your subject.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong.. As I'm still learning too, I believe that you will need to fiddle and find a balance according to your requirement.
    Pentax Kr, Pentax Super A
    K105/2.8, Fa*24/2, A28/2, A35/2, A50/1.4, A*85/1.4, A100/2.8, A135/2.8

  20. #20

    Default Re: using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!

    Not all lens at same focus length and aperture, and assume all equal give the same amount of oof blur.
    Normally, there is a reason why some lens are cheaper ...

    Ot a bit,
    Is it true that 300mmf5.6 >oof blur than 200mmf4 ?
    Is there a formula to calculate ?
    Assume distance between lens to subject to background same.
    Last edited by ahboy168; 8th October 2011 at 12:46 AM.
    | 5Diii | 24 ii | 40 | 24-70 ii | 24-105 | 70-200 F4 IS | 270 ii | 600EX-RT |

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