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Thread: D800

  1. #61

    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by george671 View Post
    Do you really think the guys at Nikon would be so stupid as to out design all of their lenses with a new camera body????
    Actually, I think Nikon would not be so stupid to let old lenses restrict the technological advancement of sensors. They simply create better and more expensive lens to match, within reasonable pace of course, resulting users to upgrade, selling more lenses and moving the market.
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  2. #62

    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Indeed, I did not multiply it twice. Thank you for the explanation and working the math.

    Assuming a lens with certain amount of lens-resolution is distributed on D3/D700's 12MP sensor, now the same lens's resolution is distributed across the bigger D800's 36MP sensor, thus an underperforming lens; third parties maybe, or the old series slow zooms, etc, may not do as well. Thus the traditional valuing of lens over body, the film/sensor could be the same, but the lens matter. Understand?

    errr... no, I actually don't understand what you are talking about....

    but nevermind...

  3. #63

    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    errr... no, I actually don't understand what you are talking about....but nevermind...
    Basically, 12MP worth of sensor sites are sharing the same light that passed thru a particular lens at a set ev value. So does 36MP worth of sensor sites, but it is divided more as way more sensor sites are packed into the same 35mm space. If that particular lens is good, eg high MTF, no problem, if that lens is no good, each sensor site gets even lesser light/data, resulting in a higher resolution file but lower detail pic.
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  4. #64

    Default Re: D800

    Suppose a lens resolves an edge defined by 1micron on the sensor plane. With 36MP at the same pixel density as d7000, the resolution characteristics should be the same as d7000 (e.g. the edge is defined by 2 pixels = 1micron). The corner performance of the lens becomes more of a concern since it is outside the boundaries of d7000 (which usually is the sweet spot of lenses)

  5. #65
    Moderator ziploc's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Indeed, I did not multiply it twice. Thank you for the explanation and working the math.

    Assuming a lens with certain amount of lens-resolution is distributed on D3/D700's 12MP sensor, now the same lens's resolution is distributed across the bigger D800's 36MP sensor, thus an underperforming lens; third parties maybe, or the old series slow zooms, etc, may not do as well. Thus the traditional valuing of lens over body, the film/sensor could be the same, but the lens matter. Understand?

    How's D800's sensor bigger than D700/D3 since both are full frame? 36MP is higher resolution than 12MP yes, but not any bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Basically, 12MP worth of sensor sites are sharing the same light that passed thru a particular lens at a set ev value. So does 36MP worth of sensor sites, but it is divided more as way more sensor sites are packed into the same 35mm space. If that particular lens is good, eg high MTF, no problem, if that lens is no good, each sensor site gets even lesser light/data, resulting in a higher resolution file but lower detail pic.
    This is incorrect, it is not about more or less light falling onto the photosites, it's about frequency of the change (which defines the edges) against sampling frequency. Per Nyquist theorem, you need at least 2 times oversampling for a signal to be properly sampled. Using the example ionicbeam given above, if a lens' resolution is 1 micron, the sensor will need to resolve at least 0.5 microns to out resolve the lens. This means at least 2 pixels are needed in a space of 1 micron as mentioned above.

    Let's say with a 12MP full frame sensor, a lens out resolve it by a factor of 4. In this case, you get the full resolution from the sensor, but the lens has more to offer, and can still resolve properly even when the resolution of the sensor is doubled. Now let's consider a 48MP full frame sensor, which has root(4)=2x more resolution than the 12MP. In this case, the resolving power of both the lens and sensor matches each other and is at the optimum. Once the sensor goes beyond 48MP, the sensor will now out resolve the lens.

    Does going from 12MP to 48MP resulting in a "lower detailed pic"? No. Because instead of limited by the sensor resolving power, both lens and sensor are now equal and you get the max possible resolution from both. Does going from 12MP to >48MP resulting in a "lower detailed pic"? Again no. Now the limiting factor is the lens, and yes the resolution is limited by it, but you still get the max resolution from the lens and the details will not be lower (and in fact it is higher than 12MP). You're just not fully utilizing the sensor's resolving power in this case, and of course if you upgrade the lens to one with higher resolving power you'll rip the benefits of the sensor.
    Last edited by ziploc; 12th October 2011 at 03:22 PM.

  6. #66

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    From wiki, D800 is 16MP only,

  7. #67

    Default Re: D800

    no official news from Nikon = not confirm

  8. #68

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    16MP will be good enough. All others makers are playing the numbers game. Not necessary. What is important is how well Nikon can address the noise issues especially during low light situation.

    Having higher MP also means bigger file sizes. not something I want

  9. #69
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    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
    This is incorrect, it is not about more or less light falling onto the photosites, it's about frequency of the change (which defines the edges) against sampling frequency. Per Nyquist theorem, you need at least 2 times oversampling for a signal to be properly sampled. Using the example ionicbeam given above, if a lens' resolution is 1 micron, the sensor will need to resolve at least 0.5 microns to out resolve the lens. This means at least 2 pixels are needed in a space of 1 micron as mentioned above.

    Let's say with a 12MP full frame sensor, a lens out resolve it by a factor of 4. In this case, you get the full resolution from the sensor, but the lens has more to offer, and can still resolve properly even when the resolution of the sensor is doubled. Now let's consider a 48MP full frame sensor, which has root(4)=2x more resolution than the 12MP. In this case, the resolving power of both the lens and sensor matches each other and is at the optimum. Once the sensor goes beyond 48MP, the sensor will now out resolve the lens.

    Does going from 12MP to 48MP resulting in a "lower detailed pic"? No. Because instead of limited by the sensor resolving power, both lens and sensor are now equal and you get the max possible resolution from both. Does going from 12MP to >48MP resulting in a "lower detailed pic"? Again no. Now the limiting factor is the lens, and yes the resolution is limited by it, but you still get the max resolution from the lens and the details will not be lower (and in fact it is higher than 12MP). You're just not fully utilizing the sensor's resolving power in this case, and of course if you upgrade the lens to one with higher resolving power you'll rip the benefits of the sensor.
    wow .. really learnt alot.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye

    At the very least, not their own lenses
    I'm not very sure how good are the third party lenses going to perform..
    3rd party are reversed engineered..
    No matter how good (sometimes could even be better), they are still 3rd party..
    Get it?!???!!!
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  11. #71

  12. #72
    Senior Member cichlid's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie0904 View Post
    16mp I believe, but not 36mp as speculated earlier.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sense rain

    3rd party are reversed engineered..
    No matter how good (sometimes could even be better), they are still 3rd party..
    Get it?!???!!!
    Relax bro, we were talking about nikon new sensors being too good that the older nikon or 3rd party lens cannot support.
    Equipment: D800|D700|11-16|28-75|105 Micro VR|50 F1.4G|85 F1.8G
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceetee View Post
    16MP will be good enough. All others makers are playing the numbers game. Not necessary. What is important is how well Nikon can address the noise issues especially during low light situation.

    Having higher MP also means bigger file sizes. not something I want
    I agree, 16mp is good enough.
    if D800 comes out with only 16mp,
    AND my D700 crushed down to me(touchwood),
    I may consider upgrading,but if 36mp...then forget it

  15. #75
    Moderator ziploc's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie0904 View Post
    No mention of 100% view finder and double media slot.

    I do hope they fix the low light focusing issue of the D700 though.

  16. #76
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziploc

    No mention of 100% view finder and double media slot.

    I do hope they fix the low light focusing issue of the D700 though.
    The Nikon 1 has double AF. Hope the D800 will too.

  17. #77

    Default Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie0904 View Post
    This is an old post back in 2010...

  18. #78

    Default Re: D800

    well, one good thing i think that can be gotten out of a 36MP is the amount you can crop out and still keep the photo look okay, possibly greatly reducing the need for anything more than 200mm...

    but that's just an out of the box thinking...

  19. #79
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    Default Re: D800

    All the talk... but who is taking out money to buy? hahaha....
    Don't brag about your accomplishments; Show us your future works.

  20. #80
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800

    All the talk... but where's the camera for us to buy?

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