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Thread: Groupon Deals Photographers

  1. #21
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    any competent photographers will not feel a threat about this,

    we do have our own customers willing to pay our rate for our service,
    they hire us is because of our skills, assurance on customers services and quality products
    and we don't enjoy servicing a few hundreds of customers, and get paid so little anyway.

    for the groupon deal, I guess some, or maybe most of the assignments will be handle by junior photographers later on, as long the deal is still honor, nobody will care that much who is shooting.

    the purpose of this thread is we have many junior, freelancers, part-time photographers here, such discussion will help them to get a better picture of how such group-buy deals works, hope they can better do the sum first before jump on the bandwagon.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    with this kind of pricing, i will not slash my price to compete. i rather shoot as a hobbist and watch these photographer sweat over a couple of bucks job.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    I believe such photographers should be able to achieve 2 things:

    1. Marketing - Letting potential future customers have a feel of the photographer's customer service and witness his/her ability. After the shoot, the photographer have the contacts of these people and maybe move on from there. Or even showcase their portfolio personally.
    2. Additional sales pitch after delivering 5 edited soft copies on CD. They might ask the customer to purchase additional images, hardcopy or even their existing package at a 'member price'.

    My only doubt is...can the photographer or his/her team cope with the time management.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by futsal123 View Post
    I believe such photographers should be able to achieve 2 things:

    1. Marketing - Letting potential future customers have a feel of the photographer's customer service and witness his/her ability. After the shoot, the photographer have the contacts of these people and maybe move on from there. Or even showcase their portfolio personally.
    2. Additional sales pitch after delivering 5 edited soft copies on CD. They might ask the customer to purchase additional images, hardcopy or even their existing package at a 'member price'.

    My only doubt is...can the photographer or his/her team cope with the time management.
    If you are saying about marketing, I can't really agree. Even if the customer see his/her ability or good customer service like what you mentioned and would like to recommend to their friends, most likely they will ask that photographer to match the price they have paid before, unless he/she has exceptional talent in photography(international award winning potential?) cum excellent customer service if they can't find from the huge pool of photographers in Singapore. If the photographer wants to raise the rate to a comfortable/premium level, it would be difficult, because he/she has already branded him/herself as a cheap photographer.

    "Last time my friend only paid $15 for 90mins. Why now you charge me $200 for 90mins? Okay, we go find other cheap photographers. Thank you and bye."
    Last edited by kentwong81; 27th September 2011 at 10:09 AM.
    Kent Wong Photography |Leica Q & Leica M-P 240 | 75 & 28mm Summilux

  5. #25

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    I work in online media. The business side of things.

    Groupon is not a marketing channel. It tries to pretend it is, but in reality, it is the worst possible marketing channel. It works perfectly for only three types of marketeers:

    1) brands that are very established. If you offer a McDonald's hamburger at 10 cents, nobody is going to have unrealistic expectations that their hamburgers are only worth 10 cents. That's because consumers already know what the brand is, and more importantly what it's worth.
    2) brands that are totally ****. So your cost is so low, and your quality so poor, that your buyers get what they pay for. That '90% off' is marked up by 90% so you get your same price.
    3) brands that have some specific monopoly that people need, so they'll come back again and again after knowing about you. For instance, in the US, a restaurant might be the only korean joint within 100 miles. So yes, go for Groupon.

    For brands that are not monopolies, and fall in between in terms of positioning, be warned. You're in trouble if you go with Groupon. In the absence of any way to judge quality, consumers end up deciding this is what your product or service is worth. When they see that you don't discount in future, they'll think, 'I'll wait, or I'll just go to the guy who IS discounting'. It's the perfect way to kill a brand overnight.

    It is really not 'cheaper' than normal advertising. Especially since normal advertising helps, not destroys, your brand. But it helps with cash-flow, and basically is a risk-free (in terms of cash movement) method of doing business. But if you're at all serious in doing business, stay far away.

    So, what is Groupon really for? It's a sales channel. It is not marketing. And it is the type of sales channel that is akin to you putting a permanent sign outside your store, "our goods and services are only worth 10% of our cover price, come in and get discounts now."

    Only you can decide whether that's suitable for you. There's a reason why this BeEconomic founder got paid $27 mil by Groupon- he's building his brand, and earning commissions, off your goods and your services. The lower your brand falls, the higher his rises ('best deals on Groupon!')

    Seller beware.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    I Try to put myself into the shoes of the company and i guess they will try to schedule as many botanical garden shots there to do in one day so no actual travelling is needed... But if there are back-to-back clients and if they are late, bad weather or fussy customers who want to hike all over the garden for 'unlimited shots'.... How? OMG think liao also tired.......

  7. #27

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by kentwong81 View Post
    If you are saying about marketing, I can't really agree. Even if the customer see his/her ability or good customer service like what you mentioned and would like to recommend to their friends, most likely they will ask that photographer to match the price they have paid before, unless he/she has exceptional talent in photography(international award winning potential?) cum excellent customer service if they can't find from the huge pool of photographers in Singapore. If the photographer wants to raise the rate to a comfortable/premium level, it would be difficult, because he/she has already branded him/herself as a cheap photographer.

    "Last time my friend only paid $15 for 90mins. Why now you charge me $200 for 90mins? Okay, we go find other cheap photographers. Thank you and bye."
    I partially agree with you. Those lowballer consumers will also lowball. But there are also consumers who can differentiate that this is a one-off promotion. You can't avoid queries but u can always choose not to accept their job.
    But what i meant is that regardless whether the marketing strategy turns out bad or good, it is still a form of marketing and it does exposure ur company to the potential customer.
    Even if no one get the groupon deal, they will see ur company advertisement.

    Side note: If I didn't recall wrongly, I remember a Groupon deal by Lumiere.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by futsal123 View Post
    I partially agree with you. Those lowballer consumers will also lowball. But there are also consumers who can differentiate that this is a one-off promotion. You can't avoid queries but u can always choose not to accept their job.
    But what i meant is that regardless whether the marketing strategy turns out bad or good, it is still a form of marketing and it does exposure ur company to the potential customer.
    Even if no one get the groupon deal, they will see ur company advertisement.

    Side note: If I didn't recall wrongly, I remember a Groupon deal by Lumiere.
    As what cannedpineapples said in the post#25, it's a sales channel rather than a marketing channel on Groupon. You destroy your own brand name(if you are not as established as MacDonald or Starbucks) rather than creating awareness/exposure. If it's marketing like what you mentioned, there are many ways to do it, like walking with half body naked at Orchard Road with your company name tatooed on your body. It sure will create awareness/exposure and appears on newspaper or Stomp website etc(free marketing??!).
    Kent Wong Photography |Leica Q & Leica M-P 240 | 75 & 28mm Summilux

  9. #29

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Yup, I think they are one of the pionners for such group deals. If I am not wrong, they tried to recruit from service wanted at same period.

    Quote Originally Posted by futsal123 View Post
    I partially agree with you. Those lowballer consumers will also lowball. But there are also consumers who can differentiate that this is a one-off promotion. You can't avoid queries but u can always choose not to accept their job.
    But what i meant is that regardless whether the marketing strategy turns out bad or good, it is still a form of marketing and it does exposure ur company to the potential customer.
    Even if no one get the groupon deal, they will see ur company advertisement.

    Side note: If I didn't recall wrongly, I remember a Groupon deal by Lumiere.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    hink i saw some coy do before, $18 for an ROM shoot for 2 hrs, sold abt 700 tickets, i wonder how they do it, even if it was an 2 ppl coy.

    before doing that, whatever reasons, must also ensure you can cope, else if cannot cope, that price how to find ppl to shoot for u??
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  11. #31

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    hink i saw some coy do before, $18 for an ROM shoot for 2 hrs, sold abt 700 tickets, i wonder how they do it, even if it was an 2 ppl coy.

    before doing that, whatever reasons, must also ensure you can cope, else if cannot cope, that price how to find ppl to shoot for u??
    It's possible....just go to Clubsnap Service Wanted section and recruit those photographer-wanna-be for free, with good reason "it's a golden chance for you to build up your portfolio". Then him/herself just collect the $18 and send those photographers to shoot.
    Kent Wong Photography |Leica Q & Leica M-P 240 | 75 & 28mm Summilux

  12. #32

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by kentwong81 View Post
    As what cannedpineapples said in the post#25, it's a sales channel rather than a marketing channel on Groupon. You destroy your own brand name(if you are not as established as MacDonald or Starbucks) rather than creating awareness/exposure. If it's marketing like what you mentioned, there are many ways to do it, like walking with half body naked at Orchard Road with your company name tatooed on your body. It sure will create awareness/exposure and appears on newspaper or Stomp website etc(free marketing??!).
    yah there is many many ways to market urself. Groupon is just 1 of it and it happens to be the trend, so why not jump on it?
    U must market before sales comes in. Placing our item on B&S is also a form of marketing.
    I guess ur point is...is it worth it in the long run. Correct me if i'm wrong.

    IMO, we will destroy our own brand name if we can't deliver the pics (lousy shots) or can't honour the deal (not enough time to shoot all groupon customer).
    Placing an advertisement on Groupon won't destroy brand name.

    If the photographer managed to deliver to all groupon customers...what u gain is an initial touch with ur potential customers, a huge load of portfolio and bragging rights that u have shot 1000+ couples.
    Last edited by futsal123; 27th September 2011 at 11:31 AM.

  13. #33
    Member sprewell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by futsal123 View Post
    I believe such photographers should be able to achieve 2 things:

    1. Marketing - Letting potential future customers have a feel of the photographer's customer service and witness his/her ability. After the shoot, the photographer have the contacts of these people and maybe move on from there. Or even showcase their portfolio personally.
    2. Additional sales pitch after delivering 5 edited soft copies on CD. They might ask the customer to purchase additional images, hardcopy or even their existing package at a 'member price'.

    My only doubt is...can the photographer or his/her team cope with the time management.
    I disagree.

    The photographer, in this case, will forever be branded cheapo. In future jobs, if the same photographer charge $200 instead of $15, the client will think "Hey since I'm going to pay $200, I might as well hire this premium photographer who has been charging $200 all along".

    Let's use chicken rice as example.

    If a chicken rice stall charges $2 all along and suddenly decides to charge $8, customers might as well go eat the chicken rice from Mandarin Hotel since they are willing to spend big.

    Or another analogy.

    If Canon 1000D has been selling cheap for *example* $200 and now wants to sell at original price of $1000. Heck I might as well top up $200 to buy the 600D or even a EP-3.

    It's a consumer behavior that many businesses failed to consider when learning how to price themselves or market themselves properly.

    And yes Groupon gives you the short term gain in quick cash but you lose a lot more than just branding.

    You lose the potential income as a result of the 600 hours committed upfront.

    Suppose there is a client urgently wants to hire a last-min photographer and pay a premium. But because you have committed that 600 hours of service upfront, you cannot take the job. Now that's a killer.
    Last edited by sprewell; 27th September 2011 at 11:30 AM.
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    some of them go advertise in the Services Wanted section. They look for free lance photographers and then they bind you by contract, asking you to commit to several weekends per month.. so they don't have to do the **** work... those photographers who took up the jobs have to bring their equipment, lights, shoot and then edit!!

  15. #35

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100 View Post
    some of them go advertise in the Services Wanted section. They look for free lance photographers and then they bind you by contract, asking you to commit to several weekends per month.. so they don't have to do the **** work... those photographers who took up the jobs have to bring their equipment, lights, shoot and then edit!!
    Den batch process the pics with certain presets and viola! haha.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    but why so much discount??? or becos groupon force it??
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  17. #37

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by sprewell View Post
    I disagree.

    The photographer, in this case, will forever be branded cheapo. In future jobs, if the same photographer charge $200 instead of $15, the client will think "Hey since I'm going to pay $200, I might as well hire this premium photographer who has been charging $200 all along".

    Let's use chicken rice as example.

    If a chicken rice stall charges $2 all along and suddenly decides to charge $8, customers might as well go eat the chicken rice from Mandarin Hotel since they are willing to spend big.

    .
    .
    .

    Suppose there is a client urgently wants to hire a last-min photographer and pay a premium. But because you have committed that 600 hours of service upfront, you cannot take the job. Now that's a killer.
    Good to see different views here. At least everyone might find something useful to learn.

    Ok, on ur views, there is 2 points here that we should establish:
    1. The analogy is from $2 jump to $8. Of cos it will cause a shock to some. But for photography services on Groupon, it's different. Ppl know that on a normal day, a 90min shoot is not $15. Consumers know that this is an offer. Like I said, lowballers will always remain lowball. There are those who are 'normal'.
    2. Groupon doesn't kill the brand. Eu Yan Seng, Manhantten Fish market, dian xiao er is doing it also.
    Last edited by futsal123; 27th September 2011 at 11:51 AM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    but why so much discount??? or becos groupon force it??
    Think about it. If you can recruit many photographer-wanna-be for free from the forums, you collect $15 without doing the photoshoot and editing yourself, why not? Sigh...
    Kent Wong Photography |Leica Q & Leica M-P 240 | 75 & 28mm Summilux

  19. #39
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by kentwong81 View Post
    It's possible....just go to Clubsnap Service Wanted section and recruit those photographer-wanna-be for free, with good reason "it's a golden chance for you to build up your portfolio". Then him/herself just collect the $18 and send those photographers to shoot.
    let's be the devil here.

    start a brand name (which you will close down and start another).

    hire free photographers who dun mind working for free to build up their portfolio.

    advertise thru groupon and offer too good to be true photography service at a peanut price.

    let these free photographers do the job while you collect the payment.

    close down this brand name, start a new one and repeat the cycle.

    not bad eh?

  20. #40

    Default Re: Groupon Deals Photographers

    Quote Originally Posted by kentwong81 View Post
    Think about it. If you can recruit many photographer-wanna-be for free from the forums, you collect $15 without doing the photoshoot and editing yourself, why not? Sigh...
    Really got such ppl ah? Haiz...

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