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Thread: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

  1. #1

    Default Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Hi I'm focusing my self on lanscape photography and I got d7000 with 18-105 and a basic tripod.

    considering to purchase 2 things

    1. shutter remote
    2. filter

    now I want to go to Punggol beach to take some photos, I want it to be like silky smooth water with silky smooth sky. I am going to shot it at the "golden hour" and I will be using filter.


    Questions about filter:

    1. I saw a square and a circle ND filter which one is good enough? (not CPL)
    2. What do you guys usually use filter number? (how much "stop")
    3. cheap and can be installed at any lens diameter (if possible)


    hope you guys can give me answers... I tried to use the search function but all I can see is "WTS:filter"

  2. #2

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    For the remote trigger maybe you can consider the ML-L3 remote which cost around $16.

    1. Both filters works if you are talking about ND filters, the more important thing is the quality of the filters.

    2. Different stops for different lighting situation.

    3. Get the largest thread size and use rings to step down? Take note about vignetting in UWAs though.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Thanks for advice..

    here is my answer

    For the remote trigger maybe you can consider the ML-L3 remote which cost around $16. - found one in B&S will contact user.. but I also prefer wired

    1. Both filters works if you are talking about ND filters, the more important thing is the quality of the filters. - I contact someone in Mass Sales and he/she suggest me with Tianya Filter Bundled Kit

    2. Different stops for different lighting situation. - In the bundle KIT I see ND4 I think it might probably do just fine....

    3. Get the largest thread size and use rings to step down? Take note about vignetting in UWAs though. - Thank you.. I will search more if there is any Step down ring

    any other suggestion is more welcome...
    Last edited by nikoneer; 16th September 2011 at 11:13 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Hmm Tianya filters are pretty low quality filters which might give a horrible colour cast in your photos. I would recommend to do more research before buying.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    ND-4 only 2 stop...don't think can give you the shutter speed you need for smooth sky and water.

    +1 to the tianya colour cast comment. Tianya is ok when you use just 1 filter, but if you stack to get longer shutter speed, the colour cast can get pretty bad.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    hi nikoneer, sorry to OT. I am too considering a ND filter to take pics of waterfall and beaches. I am thinking of gettin ND400 with 8stop (if I remember correctly) is this over kill? or should I get mutiple of ND4 and stack according to diff lighting for versatility?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    GND is not for landscaping...stuffs like spading fork, shovels are

    Landscaping refers to any activity that modifies the visible features of an area of land

    - living elements, such as flora or fauna; or what is commonly referred to as gardening, the art and craft of growing plants with a goal of creating a beautiful environment within the landscape.
    - natural elements such as landforms, terrain shape and elevation, or bodies of water;
    - human elements such as structures, buildings, fences or other material objects created and/or installed by humans; and
    - abstract elements such as the weather and lighting conditions.
    *source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscaping*

    I was corrected by DD on this

    back on topic...


    Tian Ya GND is OK, but the ND will have a slight color cast, but can be corrected in PP easily. Not too sure about stacking these Tian Ya NDs together.

    But also please take note of the quality of the filter as I got a bad copy of the ND filter where it will have flare spot if I face it towards a bright light source like the sun. If encountered, I will have to change my composition...


    In general, for "cheaper" grades of NDs, when you stack these together, you may have IR leaking into your pictures...(read it somewhere on CS) and not to mention the heavy color cast.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Quote Originally Posted by nikoneer View Post
    Hi I'm focusing my self on lanscape photography and I got d7000 with 18-105 and a basic tripod.

    considering to purchase 2 things

    1. shutter remote
    2. filter

    now I want to go to Punggol beach to take some photos, I want it to be like silky smooth water with silky smooth sky. I am going to shot it at the "golden hour" and I will be using filter.


    Questions about filter:

    1. I saw a square and a circle ND filter which one is good enough? (not CPL)
    2. What do you guys usually use filter number? (how much "stop")
    3. cheap and can be installed at any lens diameter (if possible)


    hope you guys can give me answers... I tried to use the search function but all I can see is "WTS:filter"
    you have not went through this forum enough.
    someone wrote such a guide to answer your queries.
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/threa...ide-to-Filters
    it is one of the sticky thread
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  9. #9
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    GND is not for landscaping...stuffs like spading fork, shovels are

    *source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscaping*

    I was corrected by DD on this


  10. #10

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    HAYOOOO! I admit I haven't search enough....

    I'm reading it now

    BTW I notice Mr. Daredevil123 is the author... I am happy that you have sacrifice your time in writing that guide. It is very helpful to us...I am also happy you have sacrifice your time in informing me that you already created that sticky thread!

    I can assure you that your time will not be wasted :P by reading it and enjoying every part of it.. including the nonsense "reserve" word

    Thank you!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    GND is not for landscaping...stuffs like spading fork, shovels are


    *source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscaping*

    I was corrected by DD on this

    back on topic...


    Tian Ya GND is OK, but the ND will have a slight color cast, but can be corrected in PP easily. Not too sure about stacking these Tian Ya NDs together.

    But also please take note of the quality of the filter as I got a bad copy of the ND filter where it will have flare spot if I face it towards a bright light source like the sun. If encountered, I will have to change my composition...


    In general, for "cheaper" grades of NDs, when you stack these together, you may have IR leaking into your pictures...(read it somewhere on CS) and not to mention the heavy color cast.

    I got your point

  12. #12
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Shutter remote is really only required if you wish to shoot longer than 30 seconds in bulb mode. Other than that, you can use timer mode to prevent shake (and you should also do this even if you use shutter remote).

    You want "silky smooth water with silky smooth sky". Sadly, no one can predict what the weather is like. Silky smooth water actually depends on the sea condition that day, if it is not very torrential you can take 15 seconds to make it smooth, if sea conditions are wild 2 minutes or longer can be needed. Usually 30 seconds to 1 minute is sufficient.

    For silky smooth sky this is even worse, if the clouds do not move, you can sit there for 30 minutes also will not get silky smooth sky. You will have to gauge this by yourself. Naturally to be safe you can extend the shutter to long long periods, but there has to be a balance between good use of time and what is envisioned.

    Your questions about filter.

    1) Circle versus square filter - square is more convenient , i.e. you can slot it in and take it out easily to recompose. With live view, this is not as important but you will still need to take out the filter (whether circle or square) when conditions get darker and live view is no longer able to boost the image for you to compose the image. Circle filters are less prone to light leaks.

    2) For GOLDEN HOURS, ND103 or ND106 (3 or 6 stops) will be sufficient. ND110 (10 stops) is more for daylight.

    3) No decent ND filter comes cheap, usually in the region of $100 and up thereabouts. Both types can be installed at any lens diameter - square type you just need different size adaptor ring for the filter holder, circular type can buy the largest diameter and use step-up rings.

    Btw, this advice applies for ND filters. These are uniform, i.e. they just extend exposure. I think you seem a little confused as to the differentiation between GRAD ND and ND, they are totally different animals.

    Grad ND filters are another thing altogether - for those you should just stick to square filters. Hope this helps.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Shutter remote is really only required if you wish to shoot longer than 30 seconds in bulb mode. Other than that, you can use timer mode to prevent shake (and you should also do this even if you use shutter remote).

    - Hmmm... well to ease up my budget I might skip the remote 1st since I already have timer

    You want "silky smooth water with silky smooth sky". Sadly, no one can predict what the weather is like. Silky smooth water actually depends on the sea condition that day, if it is not very torrential you can take 15 seconds to make it smooth, if sea conditions are wild 2 minutes or longer can be needed. Usually 30 seconds to 1 minute is sufficient.

    - I've been teaching my self how to read weather forecast since I always skip that part whenever I go out for photoshoot. As for the sea condition... I'll just have to use my luck....

    For silky smooth sky this is even worse, if the clouds do not move, you can sit there for 30 minutes also will not get silky smooth sky. You will have to gauge this by yourself. Naturally to be safe you can extend the shutter to long long periods, but there has to be a balance between good use of time and what is envisioned.

    - Hmmmm... I understand.

    Your questions about filter.

    1) Circle versus square filter - square is more convenient , i.e. you can slot it in and take it out easily to recompose. With live view, this is not as important but you will still need to take out the filter (whether circle or square) when conditions get darker and live view is no longer able to boost the image for you to compose the image. Circle filters are less prone to light leaks.

    2) For GOLDEN HOURS, ND103 or ND106 (3 or 6 stops) will be sufficient. ND110 (10 stops) is more for daylight.

    - Thanks! this will help! If I choose the circle ND filter I might choose the 6 stops because most likely I will late for the golden hour .

    3)No decent ND filter comes cheap, usually in the region of $100 and up thereabouts. Both types can be installed at any lens diameter - square type you just need different size adaptor ring for the filter holder, circular type can buy the largest diameter and use step-up rings.

    - What I am thinking is to get the cheap Tian Ya brand since it offers bundle... I already understand the consequences. But I am also eyeing for the B+W circle ND filter. I am still thinking a lot about this.

    Btw, this advice applies for ND filters. These are uniform, i.e. they just extend exposure. I think you seem a little confused as to the differentiation between GRAD ND and ND, they are totally different animals.

    Grad ND - is the half dark half transparent
    ND - all dark

    correct?


    Grad ND filters are another thing altogether - for those you should just stick to square filters. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by nikoneer; 16th September 2011 at 04:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Hmmm... well to ease up my budget I might skip the remote 1st since I already have timer

    Remotes do not cost much anyway. Should just get it. If gives you a lot more control should you need it (bulb mode or exposures over 30s)

    I've been teaching my self how to read weather forecast since I always skip that part whenever I go out for photoshoot. As for the sea condition... I'll just have to use my luck....
    Thanks! this will help! If I choose the circle ND filter I might choose the 6 stops because most likely I will late for the golden hour .

    The reason some of us get slotted square filters is because the weather may be unpredictable at times. So we make decisions what can and can't be done and how we want to achieve it all at location. Light also changes fast during sunrise and sunsets. So a slotted filter system enable us to adapt much faster just by sliding filters in and out. And we usually stack two filters (a GND and a ND), so the slotted filter holders are more or less a requirement for us.

    What I am thinking is to get the cheap Tian Ya brand since it offers bundle... I already understand the consequences. But I am also eyeing for the B+W circle ND filter. I am still thinking a lot about this.

    There is no point in getting round filters and a separate slotted filter kit. Might as well just go for the 100mm filter holder. I understand cost might be a factor here. You can get China made copies of the Lee foundation kit nowadays at OP. Might as well go that route. Once you get into UWAs, you may run into some problems with the 85mm filters as well. Might as well get what works now. Hitech 100mm filters are a good value. 1, 2 or 3 stop NDs are $60 a piece, $120 for all 3. And 1, 2 or 3 stop GND are $90 a piece or $200 for all 3. The 4, 6 and 10 stop NDs are made of glass and cost more at $140 a piece.

    Grad ND - is the half dark half transparent
    ND - all dark correct?


    Yes.

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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Quote Originally Posted by nikoneer View Post
    HAYOOOO! I admit I haven't search enough....

    I'm reading it now

    BTW I notice Mr. Daredevil123 is the author... I am happy that you have sacrifice your time in writing that guide. It is very helpful to us...I am also happy you have sacrifice your time in informing me that you already created that sticky thread!

    I can assure you that your time will not be wasted :P by reading it and enjoying every part of it.. including the nonsense "reserve" word

    Thank you!
    Glad to know you find it useful. Don't really have to the time to write the GND part yet, which will go into the "reserved" post areas.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Remotes do not cost much anyway. Should just get it. If gives you a lot more control should you need it (bulb mode or exposures over 30s)
    From the start I was thinking of the remote. Well then, I will get it. For sure I will be using that in the future, might as well get it now.


    The reason some of us get slotted square filters is because the weather may be unpredictable at times. So we make decisions what can and can't be done and how we want to achieve it all at location. Light also changes fast during sunrise and sunsets. So a slotted filter system enable us to adapt much faster just by sliding filters in and out. And we usually stack two filters (a GND and a ND), so the slotted filter holders are more or less a requirement for us.

    MMMMMM..... correct... so 1++ for the square filter


    There is no point in getting round filters and a separate slotted filter kit.

    Yes I know.. what I mean is if not the square then the circle one... but now I am convinced with the square.. so circle is out of the list for now.

    Might as well just go for the 100mm filter holder. I understand cost might be a factor here.
    Yes you are right. cost is a factor, I don't force my self to get a good quality for the cost that I am spending. As long as the need for "silky smooth water/sky" can be satisfied.


    You can get China made copies of the Lee foundation kit nowadays at OP. Might as well go that route. Once you get into UWAs, you may run into some problems with the 85mm filters as well.
    you mean this? "100mm (Called Z-pro series by Cokin)- Good for FF wide lenses, APS-C, UWA lenses, Medium Format" I'm planning to get UWA next year so I'll take this advice.


    Might as well get what works now. Hitech 100mm filters are a good value. 1, 2 or 3 stop NDs are $60 a piece, $120 for all 3. And 1, 2 or 3 stop GND are $90 a piece or $200 for all 3. The 4, 6 and 10 stop NDs are made of glass and cost more at $140 a piece.

    oh man! that looks expensive to me. but anyway I'll visit OP and inquire.

    I got two brands already The tian ya and the lee. I don't know the price of the lee kit yet. do you have rough estimation?

    added: I also understand that tian ya don't have 100mm but the lee does have.
    Last edited by nikoneer; 16th September 2011 at 05:31 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Quote Originally Posted by nikoneer View Post
    you mean this? "100mm (Called Z-pro series by Cokin)- Good for FF wide lenses, APS-C, UWA lenses, Medium Format" I'm planning to get UWA next year so I'll take this advice.
    Actually, the one I was talking about is even cheaper than Cokin. Just go to OP and ask for China version of Lee filter holder. The holder plus ring adapter should cost you around $120.

  18. #18
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    Default

    DD, I think hitech pro stop is 6, 8 & 10. 4 stop is still the normal $60 a piece price.

    I would suggest to get an intervalometer instead of a normal wired remote. Though u might not need it now, you might acquire one when you do time-lapse video. Plus you dun need a stop watch to remind u when to stop the exposure.

    I'm a lazy person, hence I choose to pay more for this function. the phottix intervalometer is a good buy I feel, now even cheaper than what I paid for
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  19. #19
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Agree that square is more convenient, but like I said, it is still a bit more susceptible to light leaks.

    I personally use B+W ND filters coupled with Cokin P series Hi-tech filters... Because the smaller size is more affordable, and you can't stack filters on UWA with P series size.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Advice on how to use and what to use Grad ND filters for landscaping

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye View Post
    DD, I think hitech pro stop is 6, 8 & 10. 4 stop is still the normal $60 a piece price.

    I would suggest to get an intervalometer instead of a normal wired remote. Though u might not need it now, you might acquire one when you do time-lapse video. Plus you dun need a stop watch to remind u when to stop the exposure.

    I'm a lazy person, hence I choose to pay more for this function. the phottix intervalometer is a good buy I feel, now even cheaper than what I paid for
    Bro, pro-stop is the resin one and gives some nasty color casts. The new ones are glass, and cost $140 each. Performs as well as Lee's I heard.

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