15th October 2004, 10:56 AM
haha... well said... bt i think just like most other people said.... if u(photographers) wanted to build up ur portfolio and think of hiring a pro models is necessary then u pay loh... other way round if a model or anyone wanted to do a portfolio of themselves with nice photos taken then they will need to get a photographer and of course they have to pay lah... if both parties are friend friend or jus went out for fun... think both wont mind to pose or take photos for each others....
p.s. when u wanted to teach me mark-up :P (kw who i am)
15th October 2004, 11:38 AM
15th October 2004, 12:19 PM
A model's portfolio and a photographer's portfolio is diff. A model's portfolio is to showcase a model ie: what she can do, what she've done before, the diff. looks she can protrait, etc.
A photographer's portfolio is to showcase the photographer ie: his style, his diff. lighting technic, how he work the models, etc.
When a model pays for the shoot, he/she is the client. The photographer must produce works that helps to sell the model. The photographer cannot light a model or chose a location just because it suit his taste without due consideration to how the model will look in it. The photographer should do things that the model don't have in her portfolio or improve on what she have.
When a photographer pays for the shoot, he/she is the client. The model must be able to perform. She/he must be able to give the photographer the look and feel that the photographer wants. If that is the look the photographer wants, the model cannot say that the shoot is no good because she can't see her face in the shadow or if she have better photos of the same look, .
When it is a tfp/tfcd, both parties must come to a middle ground. The models should get some photos that she can use and the photographer must be able to do something he likes and can use in his portfolio.
I've done tfp/tfcd with because I think some of them are good (make up is on them as I'm doing it for free) and I've charge as much as $1.5k (my highest so far) for a complet portfolio with comcept shots.
This is just my views. So long as everyone is happy about the arrangement, than it is OK.
15th October 2004, 12:35 PM
Just had a better look at this thread.
Originally Posted by tomshen
A lot depends on what one expects out of the shoot.
Personally I don't care a damn about "concept", which is something that is being floated around all the time in photo-shoots. Simple examples. Lifestyles. Sophisication. Chic. fun. Sport.
I do not care a damn NOT because I think the "concepts" are rubbish. In fact I think having "concepts" are very important especially when one is "selling" a product or an idea. And great creativity is required to carry the concepts through.
I do not care a damn because I try to photograph a person. Concepts do not really apply anymore. Because anything ('concepts") that you add on to the model is an artifice. And that I do not like. And when I see a model with a great personality, I will want to make a photographic biography of the model/person/sitter.
15th October 2004, 02:02 PM
If I want to get those genuine-look portraits, would rather travel more and shoot street candid. Even for simple posed portraits, having some concept explicitly or implicitly is important coz it helps posing and framing. Pro/freelance models have advantages in this regard. However, there might be exceptions. All the newbie models I have worked with so far are passionate in front of my camera. You know, young girls like to see nice portraits of themselves. This attitude indeed brings a world of difference. Although stiff at the beginning, they may perform better and better when relaxed and become more confident (same as me). That's what I learned from posed portraiture. Communication is very important. I cannot image start shooting without a warmup session.
Originally Posted by student
To each his/her own. We don't have to pay for a shoot; but if you pay (fair enough since models need to spend on expensive outfit/makeup etc), take what you want, not what they offer. btw, those models deserve good pix for their hard work.
16th October 2004, 01:22 AM
eh....who are u leh???
Originally Posted by xiaobai
eh...who are u huh...many plp ask me to teach them makeup leh...but hor...since u r a new member..i think u are xiaochuanzi???isit????
16th October 2004, 01:28 AM
16th October 2004, 02:19 AM
but what if the model is your Boyfriend ? do you still charge ? kjekekekekekek
16th October 2004, 04:32 PM
17th October 2004, 08:46 AM
If model is BF then ask him also to double up as an assistant to carry your gear and to drive you around.
Originally Posted by rueyloon
I think he should be happy with a peck on the cheek as your appreciation, Mr Loon.
17th October 2004, 10:24 PM
do i charge??
Originally Posted by rueyloon
whey wat are u hinting ah..........dun get the wrong idea hor........... he is not my boi......
but if my boi wana shoot hor.......i makeup and shoot him myself........
17th October 2004, 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Sion
ya lor...............i agree
18th October 2004, 09:57 AM
Originally Posted by reannemia
u r meaning newbie model portrait photogs pay for your model shoots where u co-ord trained models & makeup artists/stylists, as u hv the resources to do so?...
...as opposed to seasoned photogs getting paid by whoever engaged them (cld b model/stylist/makeup artist 4 their portfolios)?
juz my small view
18th October 2004, 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by des72
...... yes i think that's what she meant isn't it ?
unless you actually think a professional model will pay a newbie to shoot his/her portfolio ?
everybody starts somewhere, most pro/semi-pro/freelance photographers starting out will either
1. pay a model to build his/her portfolio
2. do tfp with the model to build both (and maybe even the makeup artists) portfolio.
3. do ftp with friends.
it's just like wedding photography - most people starting out will either
1. shoot a wedding as "backup" or "second" photographer
2. shoot a wedding for free
3. undercut the market, charge very little for starting out
before finally charging the market price... although some will still charge at a lower price to attract customers, but we will not touch that coz this is not a wedding thread.
so as you get better, people will pay you (in increasing amounts) for your time. a model needs a solid portfolio to earn money - they pay money to earn money - just like a photographer pays money for his equipment to (probably) earn money (from wedding or whatever photography means) in the future.
it's nearly analogous - when you're good your company will "pay for your equipment"... sponsor really, or give you a set. simple right ?
18th October 2004, 10:58 AM
18th October 2004, 11:19 AM
mia is a part time model - she believes models should pay their preferred (or a good fashion photographer - for eg geoff ang) photographer to build up their(the models) portfolios.
she's organising a model shoot now for people who want to shoot for fun or want to build up their (the photographers') portfolios. obviously she's not paying photographers to shoot peoples' portfolios... it's like why would you pay money to buy someone you don't really know a camera for no reason ?
actually to put it simply - look at yqt's response..
and to put it even more simply - i don't really get your point, and i don't know what you aren't sure about of her statement anyway. i wouldn't put up a thread and pay people money to buy a camera - same like nobody would put up a thread and pay people money to shoot.
18th October 2004, 11:34 AM
wah bery the cheem. i suppose this was the response I got when i posted that statement in my thread and gota lotsa pple misunderstanding.
seq: u got the picture.
lemme try to rephrase that. i believe fotogs should be paid for their professionalism.
So for example, newbies or freelance/hobbyist fotogs who wants to "experiment" their ideas, can pay to hire a makeup artist and model. (in this case, paying for their professionalism)
If you are a pro fotog with a new idea, yes u can request TFP w the model, in which case, she wouldnt lose out coz as a pro fotog, the foto turn out cant be THAT bad rite? so at least she can still use for folio.
If newbie fotog, anyhow shoot shoot, pix not so good, she cant use for folio..dont get paid...then she lugi rite?
When i organise shoots for fotogs who pay to attend, of course i give them the professionalim "value" by hiring a pro model and makeup artist.
Of coz trainee fotogs can shoot their friends for free as practice, but u dont get to work in an environment where pple put in their best work and attitude.
i hope this clears up the air abit man. all i wanted to bring across is my respect towards fotographers and how i want to give them the best "value" possible for my organised shoot.
18th October 2004, 11:42 AM
reannemia, one of the few post to this thread that makes sense...
Yeah, you are right on the dot mostly. That's how it works.
18th October 2004, 11:45 AM
i understand her post; what i'm confused is her 1st statement and the rest of her post's not in sync. i've also read her previous deleted thread.
in this thread, as in the previous one, she expressed "i for one believes that fotogs should be paid to shoot", cos she acknowledges photogs' expertise, hence her view in that statement gels.
but to put it in that post in this thread & the previous deleted thread she got ppl confused as her statement doesnt click with the context of the post/thread at all....hence she's lamenting in this post in this thread the confusion in that former deleted thread....
another small viewpt....yet again
18th October 2004, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by reannemia
so have you found the keyword ?
psst : mia.. how ? :P