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Thread: How can anybody be so cruel???

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrie100
    Just because i'm saying that we are also animals, does not mean that we have any excuse for behaving like one. I don't believe in egalitarism by the way, so i don't know where you got that for. I don't think we are the Same as animals, but you can be one just as you can be human. One can be evil yet brave. That's just my belief.

    Now before I say thank you to everyone, I am one who thrives on controversy. I sort of had a motive behind what things I said too...so don't flame me. I'm considering writing a book and am looking around for people to help, thus I wanted to use this opportunity to dig at people's belief systems and tease out information, without letting too much on. Either, way, I would like Flare and dkw and whoelse to contact me (PM and i'll give you my email). Thanks everyone for your help.

    Evil kyrie100...runs away..in the other direction! Muhahahahhahaha...

    P.s DKW...in your avatar, who is that philosopher....look familar.
    Awwrighthy, I guess we'll agree to disagree. I saw so many humans=animals posts here I felt I needed to present the different view.

    My avatar is a painting of the world's most famous schizophrenic (self portrait, no less), and has got something to do with my area of work.

    Cheers,

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoelse
    It is becos we determine our live and we assume that we determine other spieces life too. We are animal, so do pigs, spiders. Animals = living things that able to move by itself. "Ani"-mal. Animal root then includes mamals, fishes, insects, germs etc.

    We assume we can determine other spieces life because we are smarter. That will mean that if tomorrow aliens would to rule our earth, we will all have to be treated like other animals. What if apes suddenly become smarter then humans? Then I guess base on many people's theory here, we will all deserve to be lock in cage

    We kill for food sure, that hasn't change millions of years. So, next time when shark attack or crocodile attack or some tourist eaten by lion. It's part of evolution and we give the victim our deepest sorrow and silent for 1min. Moreever, lions, crocodile act instintly and cannot think and choose to eat vegetable like us. Even a tourist eaten my croc becos he when to provoke the repile will end up it's the croc's fault, sure then will be put down.

    There is no human's fault when human vs animal or hummm... other non human.

    Oh, dun argue. It is bcos we are human and we have self-interest that is why we are selfish, make excuses etc.
    Well,
    those are biological definitions, which merely serve to classify organisms according to their form. Only a fool would argue that humans do not share many physical and physiological characteristics with animals, and I am not making that argument. I do contend that a separation between man and animals exist on a values/beliefs, intellectual level.

    What happens if some chimp becomes smarter than man? Well, I guess we'll have to ask him what he thinks!

    Cheers,

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Well,
    those are biological definitions, which merely serve to classify organisms according to their form. Only a fool would argue that humans do not share many physical and physiological characteristics with animals, and I am not making that argument. I do contend that a separation between man and animals exist on a values/beliefs, intellectual level.

    What happens if some chimp becomes smarter than man? Well, I guess we'll have to ask him what he thinks!

    Cheers,
    Well, true. But Biology happens to be my area of studies and training (not my work tho ), thus my point of view. And science is currently the most popular belief/religion if you ask me. I doubt anyone would raise his hand to say he does not believe in any bit of explanation science had provided. But the statement will very likely blow into another big argument, so just leave it here as my personal opinion.

    And from this thread, i personally have concluded that: there are so many ways to classify anything. For example, cars, they can be classed by their's displacement capacity, type/style (salon vs coupe), make, etc (rim size? ) , and many can still be left in the middle(s). As like cars, humans can be grouped together (e.g. biological nomenclature) or away from animals (intellectual basis) depending on the criteria used for the classifiction, and everyone has their own criterias, and thus difference in view. some may even class humans in the same league as god(s).

    It is these difference in opinion, and the sturbborness of man, reluctance, lack of acceptance that created most, if not all of the problems and conflict on this world. I believe everyone is able to understand and know in some manner about the point above, but are unable to act on it at all times. Humans/Man/Homo sapiens. are flawed, like most other creatures, we have instincts, of Pride, Greed, Envy, Wrath, Lust, Gluttony and Sloth (I'm too lazy to think, above is extracted from Christian belief (?, these were never presented as a formal list in the bible, reference: http://www.whitestonejournal.com/seven/index.html)

    Oh, hee, let's try talking to the chimps during the next photoshoot at the zoo. Who knows, we may have a mutant within this island which may answer the tough question, and even treat us to tea! ... or bananas....

    Flare is a free thinker, who shows interest in religions, as it had molded the thoughts and action of humans for all of it's history and prehistory. Flare currently works in a job which may require him to kill, directly or indirectly, human lives in order to accomplish his duties.

    Last edited by Flare; 19th October 2004 at 12:38 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flare
    Well, true. But Biology happens to be my area of studies and training (not my work tho ), thus my point of view. And science is currently the most popular belief/religion if you ask me. I doubt anyone would raise his hand to say he does not believe in any bit of explanation science had provided. But the statement will very likely blow into another big argument, so just leave it here as my personal opinion.

    And from this thread, i personally have concluded that: there are so many ways to classify anything. For example, cars, they can be classed by their's displacement capacity, type/style (salon vs coupe), make, etc (rim size? ) , and many can still be left in the middle(s). As like cars, humans can be grouped together (e.g. biological nomenclature) or away from animals (intellectual basis) depending on the criteria used for the classifiction, and everyone has their own criterias, and thus difference in view. some may even class humans in the same league as god(s).

    It is these difference in opinion, and the sturbborness of man, reluctance, lack of acceptance that created most, if not all of the problems and conflict on this world. I believe everyone is able to understand and know in some manner about the point above, but are unable to act on it at all times. Humans/Man/Homo sapiens. are flawed, like most other creatures, we have instincts, of Pride, Greed, Envy, Wrath, Lust, Gluttony and Sloth (I'm too lazy to think, above is extracted from Christian belief (?, these were never presented as a formal list in the bible, reference: http://www.whitestonejournal.com/seven/index.html)

    Oh, hee, let's try talking to the chimps during the next photoshoot at the zoo. Who knows, we may have a mutant within this island which may answer the tough question, and even treat us to tea! ... or bananas....

    Flare is a free thinker, who shows interest in religions, as it had molded the thoughts and action of humans for all of it's history and prehistory. Flare currently works in a job which may require him to kill, directly or indirectly, human lives in order to accomplish his duties.

    Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive. I am also trained in biology, my current work involves research into genetics and medicines, I believe in the evolution of species, and I also believe in the Creator. Many biological research scientists I know, folk who are steeped in the understanding of their field, are also devout christians/muslims. They, and I, find no conflict of science with their beliefs.

    Don't mean to be preachy, but one of the biggest misconceptions in the world is that science disproves religion....it does no such thing.

  5. #45

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    On the contrary, I think science proves religion.

    Humans are different from animals because we have a spirit. We ask questions about our existence, and we know that there is definitely something more to this world than what we already know. There is a void in us we know needs to be filled, not with pride, not with knowledge... just something else.

    I believe in evolution in a way, I also believe in creation. I definitely believe a creator created a chicken to lay the egg.

    In anycase, to each his own opinions, then again only humans form opinions and makes them known in forums.

    Humans are different from animals.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive. I am also trained in biology, my current work involves research into genetics and medicines, I believe in the evolution of species, and I also believe in the Creator. Many biological research scientists I know, folk who are steeped in the understanding of their field, are also devout christians/muslims. They, and I, find no conflict of science with their beliefs.

    Don't mean to be preachy, but one of the biggest misconceptions in the world is that science disproves religion....it does no such thing.
    Agree with it! I am a scientist too, but I don't believe in a God that has direct influence in our lives.....but that's my own belief lah! I respect those who do believe in an Almighty God.....just that I hoped those people will also respect my view and of that of others.....all there

    Science is based on experiments and proving theories that way....however I do think that science at the moment is limited (and I don't think science will ever be able to prove or disprove it in the near future) in that it can not prove or disprove that there is God or no God.....or whether we have a 'Soul' or 'Spirt' (Athma in Hindu religion) or not, so still an open question......anyway, my opinion is whether we know that there is a God or not, does it drastically change our lives here and now? My life doesn't change by knowing that there is a God or there is no God.....so for me it is not an important question.....

    As for evolution: it is a fact, and is still happening in front of our eyes everyday, every second.....

    Hong Sien

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    ........ in that it can not prove or disprove that there is God or no God.....or whether we have a 'Soul' or 'Spirt' (Athma in Hindu religion) or not, so still an open question........
    that's why most religion is a belief....it doesn't have to be proven, its either you believe in it or not....

    Hong Sien

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrie100
    And sprit is not provable...i don't know...don't feel any void thingy.
    Guess, we only will know this after we die......:-)

  9. #49

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    Ah great, the never ending discussion about Religion VS Science Here's my 0.02 rupiah.

    Matter = Energy = God

    Thus matter is actually God. Matter was created because our low level spirits need them, without any outside stimuli we become insane like prisoners in solitary confinement. Only a spirit that has realised the truth (ie. buddha) is able to survive in a vacuum.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by reno77
    Ah great, the never ending discussion about Religion VS Science Here's my 0.02 rupiah.

    Matter = Energy = God

    Thus matter is actually God. Matter was created because our low level spirits need them, without any outside stimuli we become insane like prisoners in solitary confinement. Only a spirit that has realised the truth (ie. buddha) is able to survive in a vacuum.
    rupiah? that's really cheap skate!
    anyway, i know i'm repeating the same thing, but there won't be an end to topics like this one.

  11. #51
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    Thumbs down

    Sad there are foolish ppl that treat Saddam Hussien and Osama as GOD?! Kaoz!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX Boy
    Sad there are foolish ppl that treat Saddam Hussien and Osama as GOD?! Kaoz!!!
    Just my 2 cents, I was watching this series that's now showing on Star Movies, "The Grid". It talks about terrorism and how and why these people believe in those words. I'm not sure how true it is, but to a certain extent I guess it's due to their living conditions.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX Boy
    Sad there are foolish ppl that treat Saddam Hussien and Osama as GOD?! Kaoz!!!
    Yeah...usually these are those who are not so very much conversed in their own religion anyway, and get some story from these groups that sounds very attractive as explanations for their own frustrations.......they must give someone else the fault for their (or their group's) situation.....these are cults who have problems, and frustrations that were not addressed properly by their own governments I guess and are now making use of these frustrations in the people there to get more joining them. See the situation in Southern Philippines and Southern Thailand......sad because in the not so long past, Islam was the centerpiece of the world in Poetry, Science, Philosophy....

    Hong Sien

  14. #54

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    I am sorry to read my fellow Christian beliving in evilution. Evilution was invented by Darwin to undermind Christians.... but thx to Christian scientist evilution is disproven... this is FACT... pls search your hearts fellow Christians because u know this is true..... did u come from GOD? or from a MONKEY?
    It makes me sad to read abt the dog poisoning becoz all animals are God's creation.... we humans can rule over animals but not be so cruel to them.... we must love animals like we love each other..... even when we take their lives we must do it humanly.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive. I am also trained in biology, my current work involves research into genetics and medicines, I believe in the evolution of species, and I also believe in the Creator. Many biological research scientists I know, folk who are steeped in the understanding of their field, are also devout christians/muslims. They, and I, find no conflict of science with their beliefs.

    Don't mean to be preachy, but one of the biggest misconceptions in the world is that science disproves religion....it does no such thing.
    Interesting topic..
    Science does not disprove religion. What science is concerned is about proof, interpretive theory and empirical evidence.

    Galileo was renounced by the church for holding heathen and false doctrince by declaring that earth is round and revolves around the sun. If not for Galileo, we will still think that earth is flat and is the centre of the world, while the sun moves.

    Darwin was mocked and ridiculed for coming out with the evolution theory that challenged the view that man was created in the image of God. His evolution theory suggested that the Adam and Eve story is nothing but a myth..

    Scientific theories are not the be all done all answer to all our questions. For instance, Darwin's evolution theory might not be the ultimate theory to answer how the existence of human beings came about. As long as you can come up with another theory that can better explain our existence, Darwin's evolution theory will be voided.

    Are humans different from animals? To quote from Singer, "Is it because animals are merely sentient beings?". If that's the case, what about infants? And those who suffer from severe mental disabilities? Is this not double standards? Is this not speciesism?

    Isn't speciesism similar to racism, sexism and ageism? It's the same, it's simply the assumption of superiority over others.

    Just my 2 cents worth..
    When I do right, no one remembers. When I do wrong, no one ever forgets.

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  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Padawan
    I am sorry to read my fellow Christian beliving in evilution. Evilution was invented by Darwin to undermind Christians.... but thx to Christian scientist evilution is disproven... this is FACT... pls search your hearts fellow Christians because u know this is true..... did u come from GOD? or from a MONKEY?
    It makes me sad to read abt the dog poisoning becoz all animals are God's creation.... we humans can rule over animals but not be so cruel to them.... we must love animals like we love each other..... even when we take their lives we must do it humanly.
    To qualify, I do not think any christians believe in evolution as christians must believe they are created in the image of God.

    The evolution that I believe in a way refers to how genes are mutated due to the environment and not doubting God's creation.

    I think we feel more strongly for the poisoned dog is becasue we have a 'stronger' relationship with dogs. I remember seeing the news about chickens that were being slammed against the wall, or being stamped on just before they were sent to the slaughter... some may ask whats the big deal, they'll end up dead anyway? But i guess I concur with Padawan on this one, if an animal life has to be taken, do it humanely.
    Last edited by laugh; 20th October 2004 at 07:42 PM.

  19. #59
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    Ladies, Gentlemen, like everyone else here, i have my own beliefs and i do welcome everyone to be able to express themselves. However, please understand that religion is a very touchy subject.

    As it is, the thread is going OT so let's not disgress too much please.

    Thank you for your understanding.
    --
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrie100
    Hi benson! Conversation always degress and OT what...even in real life. But okay, guess rules are rules.
    Exactly, so sometimes, someone has to be able to steer the conversation back on track.

    Anyone, i'm sure you know where i am coming from.
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