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Thread: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

  1. #21

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    To be entirely honest...

    At any stage, pro or non-pro, you can only sell your service at a price people will buy...

    No point of charging high if you don't get any jobs at all... Or no point charging low if people are willing to pay for price you command regardless what it be.

    A pro can forgo all necessary marketing effort by having an agent.
    A pro can forgo all post productions by having others doing for them...

    Stop saying people undercut one just because they are cheaper.... They are being aggressive... To survive business of photography, you will need to possess a creative mind which ever evolving rather taking things as absolute one solution basis.


    Regards,

    Hart

  2. #22

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly5050 View Post
    It is for this reason now that I dun even know who a true professional really is anymore. Photography needs more regulation but there seems to be no entry requirement other than having a dslr and a lens.
    I think its just play of semantics. I believe the original point of TS is to encourage students to be aware of their own value, their invested future and not be shortchanged.
    WTB Manfrotto RC4 L Bracket

  3. #23
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly5050 View Post
    A professional photographer is not just someone who can shoot good photos....anyone has the ability to shoot good photos. That does not mean that just because you can shoot good photos you can charge professional rates. A professional photographer is a trained professional. They have to understand more than just digital photography. They need to know about lighting, studio setups, controls, printing, paper, film, dark room, display, marketing, business development, post processing etc etc. A professional photographer may spend only 10% of his time shooting but the other 90% of the time doing the other things.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YI4rcM_9dw

    Just to give you an idea

    i think u have a very warped idea of a "professional photographer"

    a professional photographer is simply one that takes it as a profession,
    following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/professional

    it doesnt mean that a "professional" has to be good, just FYI.

    i can be professional chef, just because i work full time. if i work part time, hence just a Chef, it doesnt mean i cannot do as much. i'm just not doing it for a livelihood.

    u mentioned a few points,
    A professional photographer is a trained professional. They have to understand more than just digital photography. They need to know about lighting, studio setups, controls, printing, paper, film, dark room, display, marketing, business development, post processing etc etc.
    which i have to disagree. a hobbist can just be as technically proficient as any professional photographer.

    i find ur point contradictory. because ur mentioned traits are not requirements to be a professional. infact, a large majority who do as full time may not even know so much.


    in short: if i shoot as well, i am equally skilled, i can charge at whateva rates i want. if i think i'm good, i charge at a high price. if i think i'm not, i charge low.

    a pro doesnt mean he has to shoot well. a hobbist can be better than a pro. pro is nothing but just a title. a title doesnt mean anything.

  4. #24

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    i think u have a very warped idea of a "professional photographer"

    a professional photographer is simply one that takes it as a profession,

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/professional

    it doesnt mean that a "professional" has to be good, just FYI.

    i can be professional chef, just because i work full time. if i work part time, hence just a Chef, it doesnt mean i cannot do as much. i'm just not doing it for a livelihood.

    u mentioned a few points,


    which i have to disagree. a hobbist can just be as technically proficient as any professional photographer.

    i find ur point contradictory. because ur mentioned traits are not requirements to be a professional. infact, a large majority who do as full time may not even know so much.


    in short: if i shoot as well, i am equally skilled, i can charge at whateva rates i want. if i think i'm good, i charge at a high price. if i think i'm not, i charge low.

    a pro doesnt mean he has to shoot well. a hobbist can be better than a pro. pro is nothing but just a title. a title doesnt mean anything.
    Will have to agree with the titular definition given by Allen.

    Remember : pay peanuts, get monkeys.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    yes yes yes a pro doesn't have to be good but there's a general consensus that if a pro can be a pro for that long a period of time, there's an assumption that he is earning enough to keep his life going and so his skills should be decent enough to earn people's moolah.

    From merriam webster:'

    professional

    characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace


    If you guys actually look at the professionals in the west or the well known commercial photographers in SG, they are basically in charge of everything from shooting to marketing to delivery.

    One really overused definition of professional is that okay, you earn money from it, you are a professional. But they don't differentiate between having a job and being a professional.

    Again: profession: specialized educational training from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession

    In any case if you guys haven't realised, most of the people don't ask "oh you got a profession at the minimart?" and most people would ask someone specialised in an area: "what's your profession?"

    Undoubtedly, there are only a few terms to describe photographers in general: the hobbyist, the amateur and the professional and a few more which don't matter.

    Can a photographer who earns from shooting an event be called a professional in the photography terminology? Why not.

    Has he actually met the common professional standards of the industries across the economy? Maybe not.

    It is definitely not only a title. Just because it is termed professional PHOTOGRAPHER, doesn't mean that he just has to be good at shooting and is allowed to be an idiot at marketing or making profits. How about this, photographic executive officer? It could mean the same thing but people might see that executive officer is at the back and so his main role is to be that and photographic is only secondary.

    Blah.

  6. #26
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by tehzeh View Post
    yes yes yes a pro doesn't have to be good but there's a general consensus that if a pro can be a pro for that long a period of time, there's an assumption that he is earning enough to keep his life going and so his skills should be decent enough to earn people's moolah.

    From merriam webster:'

    professional

    characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace


    If you guys actually look at the professionals in the west or the well known commercial photographers in SG, they are basically in charge of everything from shooting to marketing to delivery.

    One really overused definition of professional is that okay, you earn money from it, you are a professional. But they don't differentiate between having a job and being a professional.

    Again: profession: specialized educational training from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession

    In any case if you guys haven't realised, most of the people don't ask "oh you got a profession at the minimart?" and most people would ask someone specialised in an area: "what's your profession?"

    Undoubtedly, there are only a few terms to describe photographers in general: the hobbyist, the amateur and the professional and a few more which don't matter.

    Can a photographer who earns from shooting an event be called a professional in the photography terminology? Why not.

    Has he actually met the common professional standards of the industries across the economy? Maybe not.

    It is definitely not only a title. Just because it is termed professional PHOTOGRAPHER, doesn't mean that he just has to be good at shooting and is allowed to be an idiot at marketing or making profits. How about this, photographic executive officer? It could mean the same thing but people might see that executive officer is at the back and so his main role is to be that and photographic is only secondary.

    Blah.
    in short. charge what u need to charge..... darwin takes care of everything

  7. #27

    Wink Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    in short. charge what u need to charge..... darwin takes care of everything
    Yes indeed is just semantics and a title don't be overly concerned about that no need to quote dictionary.

    Right, charge what you need to charge and the thread intention is to make you realize those needs and why.

    Notice in this thread and similar threads recently (like sinned79 protect photog ricebowl thread), that there are lots of cheap people jumping in defensively to give justifications for their low prices. Yes they have a lot of excuses and reasons they convinced themselves with and they want you to believe that too.

    Now, you have a dream, you gotta protect it. Never let anyone tell you what you can do or cannot do.
    People can't do it themselves they want to tell you you can't do it too. Learn to recognize that and be careful of negative people's poison.

    It's sept now and the session is in. Not going to be free for surfing that much. Take care everyone and may we all do good for the industry and all be prosperous and happy.
    Last edited by JasonB; 4th September 2011 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    in short. charge what u need to charge..... darwin takes care of everything
    *Natural selection.

    "t

  9. #29
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by tehzeh View Post
    *Natural selection.

    "t
    om nom nom.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    when i was a student, i always charged as high as i can get away with because i always had the option of walking away. it's not like i depended on the job for the money, so i was in a stronger bargaining position. got a job that paid 4k for 5 days of event photography.. that was my pocket money for the year.

    bottom line is, if the customers are not complaining about your price, you're way too cheap.
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  11. #31
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by antacid View Post

    bottom line is, if the customers are not complaining about your price, you're way too cheap.
    thumbs up.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by antacid View Post
    when i was a student, i always charged as high as i can get away with because i always had the option of walking away. it's not like i depended on the job for the money, so i was in a stronger bargaining position. got a job that paid 4k for 5 days of event photography.. that was my pocket money for the year.

    bottom line is, if the customers are not complaining about your price, you're way too cheap.
    after reading all the previous post. i find yours the most enlightening one. way to go if you are a student!

  13. #33

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by at0m87 View Post
    after reading all the previous post. i find yours the most enlightening one. way to go if you are a student!
    that depends though. if you charge high, and your photos are crap... i highly doubt anyone will wanna engage your services next time around

  14. #34
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    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    that depends though. if you charge high, and your photos are crap... i highly doubt anyone will wanna engage your services next time around
    you will be surprise to know many photographers able to charge high but produce mediocre photos.

    many photographers failed is not they shoot badly, but because of not making enough profit to sustain their business.
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  15. #35

    Default

    Edit, someone used my account.
    Last edited by ahmadmfz; 19th June 2012 at 10:42 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    you will be surprise to know many photographers able to charge high but produce mediocre photos.
    many photographers failed is not they shoot badly, but because of not making enough profit to sustain their business.
    As a consumer, i feel sorry for the client ...

  17. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper123

    As a consumer, i feel sorry for the client ...
    That's the truth but not just limited to photography.

  18. #38

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Thing is, nowadays people here are shrewder than ever. I may not earn much from this...but I think guys who have been through a couple hundred of weddings would have met enough people from all the wedding couples + bros and sisters and see what kind of people are in society.

    And I am most impressed by my wife. Just met a customer to collect the balance and deliver the disc, **I did not tell her nothing**, she was walking to the MRT and just glanced at the couple, knew that the bride is someone who is to be rifled with. She called me from Station Control .... "Boss, she asking for discount right". Biang....i nearly blurted out laughing! No need to talk....just see from body language + face and know already. She is also a boss in her own right as we share another biz but not here....so i guess once you come out to mix around, you get to learn quite a lot of stuff.

  19. #39

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly5050 View Post
    You should not be charging professional rates if you are not a professional. On the other hand, whether you are a pro, student or trainee, no one should be exploited.
    Don't make sense leh....or at least from what i see. My Interior Designer is a Malaysian and has been in the field for about 11 months, he told me that. "I may not have experience, but do give me a chance, take a look at my work first". Well at least he put his effort into it. He designed quite a number of stuff, like Manhattan Fish Market and some other good commercial projects. So far he did not mess up my house......and trust me my project is not a 30k cheap cheap one. LOL!

    But yes, the ID/contractor biz is regulated, somewhat...if you truly believe in that.
    Last edited by 2100; 24th September 2011 at 10:02 PM.

  20. #40

    Default Re: How Should Student Photographers Charge?

    And thus coined the industry phrase "the devil wears white".

    And thus coined the industry term "bridezilla".

    Some women can be scumbags too. In good times they may not show, in bad times, the true colors come out.

    There are some inherrent problem to balance payment after wedding. After they blew their budget on weddings, or miscalcuted, or unexpected expenses shows up, or the red packet money they received from guests aren't as good as they expected, the hard working wedding photographer becomes an easy target. They know they can't play punk with the hotels, the bridal store, etc, or they had already fully paid those vendors. So the wedding photog becomes the easy target.

    Just complain the shots no good. Just **** up some stories of certain shots not covered. Just play unhappy customer or threaten to write bad reviews on brides forum. They do anything to force a discount. The kind photog is controlled by the nose becoz his ricebowl depends upon good reputation and referrals. Never become a target in the first place.

    Bro, at 30+ to 40 weddings a year, part time, you CAN change your business model and collect full payment. I dare say your bookings won't go down enough to matter and you will have better clients and happier.

    All of these would not happen if full payment is received before the wedding. Let them go target other vendors,



    Quote Originally Posted by 2100 View Post
    Thing is, nowadays people here are shrewder than ever. I may not earn much from this...but I think guys who have been through a couple hundred of weddings would have met enough people from all the wedding couples + bros and sisters and see what kind of people are in society.

    And I am most impressed by my wife. Just met a customer to collect the balance and deliver the disc, **I did not tell her nothing**, she was walking to the MRT and just glanced at the couple, knew that the bride is someone who is to be rifled with. She called me from Station Control .... "Boss, she asking for discount right". Biang....i nearly blurted out laughing! No need to talk....just see from body language + face and know already. She is also a boss in her own right as we share another biz but not here....so i guess once you come out to mix around, you get to learn quite a lot of stuff.

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