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Thread: To Singapore With Love

  1. #101
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    Steven,

    In that case, I really should think both SBG and PSS should make their terms clearer as well as equip their staff with the necessary and accurate info. I too intially wondered why in the world would PSS want the images but then again, member strength does not equate to the size of the image library being built. Still, thanks alot for clearing up the air.

    Richard,

    All I have to say has been said and the air is cleared.
    Last edited by ywh; 18th March 2005 at 11:43 PM.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by ywh
    Steven,

    In that case, I really should think both SBG and PSS should make their terms clearer as well as equip their staff with the necessary and accurate info. I too intially wondered why in the world would PSS want the images but then again, member strength does not equate to the size of the image library being built. Still, thanks alot for clearing up the air.

    Richard,

    All I have to say has been said and the air is cleared.
    Yeah, I was also quite surprised when it was mentioned that PSS wants the images for its publicity purposes. For what? I wonder. The only reason why PSS "wants" the images is to go for the TSWL.

    I also hope all photographers understand that PSS has loads of images from its members if it really wants to hold any events. We do not need to get images via this way for our publicity purposes.

    In the meantime, we are working towards to the success of the book.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Yeah, I was also quite surprised when it was mentioned that PSS wants the images for its publicity purposes. For what? I wonder. The only reason why PSS "wants" the images is to go for the TSWL.

    I also hope all photographers understand that PSS has loads of images from its members if it really wants to hold any events. We do not need to get images via this way for our publicity purposes.

    In the meantime, we are working towards to the success of the book.
    Maybe what they meant was they have the right to use the images for TSWL publicity. To promote the book, etc.
    At least that's how I understood it, and not for pulicizing PSS itself.

  4. #104

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    Hi all,

    Do log on to www.tswl.org.sg for the latest update on the project.

    There is a pdf download on the selected images.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Hi all,

    Do log on to www.tswl.org.sg for the latest update on the project.

    There is a pdf download on the selected images.
    Looking at the selected images, one thing struck me:

    There were several cases of repeats, eg about 10 pixs by Darren Soh showing men in uniform, at the same event. Plus lots and lots of b/w pixs by Joseph McGlennon - cannot see properly but they look like grouped into themes, again with many similar pixs on the same theme.

    I have nothing against Darren / Joseph. I congrratulate them and all others who have pixs selected (including myself).

    But it never occurred to me to submit more than one or maybe maximum two pixs showing the same scene / event.

    What is the idea behind this? Photo essays?

    I do find this to be strange, especially in view of the fact that many thousand images were submitted and I remember reading that the overall quality was high.

    And I wonder what the feel of the book would be with a few photographers / themes taking up significant portions.

    Would this not give the impression that there are not all that many talented photographers in Singapore or that there are not enough interesting subjects to fill a book?

    Or is this really the case?!?

    Also, out of curiosity, how many images were submitted in the end?
    How many photographers submitted? How many got their works selected?

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardSeah
    Looking at the selected images, one thing struck me:

    There were several cases of repeats, eg about 10 pixs by Darren Soh showing men in uniform, at the same event. Plus lots and lots of b/w pixs by Joseph McGlennon - cannot see properly but they look like grouped into themes, again with many similar pixs on the same theme.

    I have nothing against Darren / Joseph. I congrratulate them and all others who have pixs selected (including myself).

    But it never occurred to me to submit more than one or maybe maximum two pixs showing the same scene / event.

    What is the idea behind this? Photo essays?

    I do find this to be strange, especially in view of the fact that many thousand images were submitted and I remember reading that the overall quality was high.

    And I wonder what the feel of the book would be with a few photographers / themes taking up significant portions.

    Would this not give the impression that there are not all that many talented photographers in Singapore or that there are not enough interesting subjects to fill a book?

    Or is this really the case?!?

    Also, out of curiosity, how many images were submitted in the end?
    How many photographers submitted? How many got their works selected?
    8,400 images were submitted in the 2 rounds of submission!

    The images cover a wide spectrum of subjects, and most are of good quality. However, the eventual selected images must also fit the theme and flow of the book.

    Making a book of this scale is not easy. Very importantly, the flow must be there, and covers Love for People, Love for Arts and Culture, Love for nature. Darren and Joseph's images somehow fit into PART of the storyline.

    There is no limit to the number of images submited.

  7. #107

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    I find this book rather strange too after looking the photos. Seriously, I believe that a NDP book should try to be all encompassing and reflect more than just a couple of themes.

    I too congratulate the winners but find that the selection process "different".

    A book similar to "Things that make us Singaporean" NDP 2003 book will be better with alot of different photos of various different parts of Singapore. I feel that it would be better accepted and that all the effort of all the photographers will not be wasted. Or at the very least, limit the no. of duplicated scenes as mentioned above, giving more photographers chance to show their good work. I believe that there are definitely better photos that those selected but doesn't fall into the themes.

    Again, how many photographers submitted, and how many was selected.

    I feel that there should be a website where everyone of the 8000+ photos be hosted, that will truely reflect what Singapore is like to Singaporean as well as the World. That would be "To Singapore with Love".

  8. #108
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    Smile To Spore with Love

    Steven,

    Do CS member get a dicounted price for the book? If we can start a MO and get lots of member to buy it, can you like reserved and buyer collect it at PSS?

    Pls advice. Thanks.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Making a book of this scale is not easy. Very importantly, the flow must be there, and covers Love for People, Love for Arts and Culture, Love for nature. Darren and Joseph's images somehow fit into PART of the storyline.
    Neither being Singaporean, nor having submitted anything, I shouldn't really bother. However, just to give the impression of an observer ...

    I can't help notice that the number two photographer in terms of accepted pictures (29 pictures) goes by the name Steven Yee Pui Chung. I wonder if this is all the same Steven Yee, who happens to be secretary of the steering committee?

    There are also multiple pictures by the panel of judges (I count 9).

    Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, errr, Singapore. I would have expected the steering committee to exercise some restraint. (In other parts of the world, it would go without saying that committee members and their families are prohibited from submitting photos.)

    Even if the selection process was completely fair, it wasn't very smart. If people will associate this book project with Singapore in general, it may be quite damaging to Singapore's image, both internal and external.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by hairycow4
    I find this book rather strange too after looking the photos. Seriously, I believe that a NDP book should try to be all encompassing and reflect more than just a couple of themes.

    I too congratulate the winners but find that the selection process "different".

    A book similar to "Things that make us Singaporean" NDP 2003 book will be better with alot of different photos of various different parts of Singapore. I feel that it would be better accepted and that all the effort of all the photographers will not be wasted. Or at the very least, limit the no. of duplicated scenes as mentioned above, giving more photographers chance to show their good work. I believe that there are definitely better photos that those selected but doesn't fall into the themes.

    Again, how many photographers submitted, and how many was selected.

    I feel that there should be a website where everyone of the 8000+ photos be hosted, that will truely reflect what Singapore is like to Singaporean as well as the World. That would be "To Singapore with Love".
    "Things that make us Singaporean" is a NEXUS project for NDP.

    TSWL is not a NDP (national day parade) book project, but serves to celebrate Singapore's 40th Anniversary by showcasing the local talents. The TSWL book is not given out FOC as part of the goodies bag during the parade.

    NDP project and TSWL project are two different things. Both have got different storyline.
    Last edited by Steven Yee; 30th April 2005 at 12:37 AM.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    Neither being Singaporean, nor having submitted anything, I shouldn't really bother. However, just to give the impression of an observer ...

    I can't help notice that the number two photographer in terms of accepted pictures (29 pictures) goes by the name Steven Yee Pui Chung. I wonder if this is all the same Steven Yee, who happens to be secretary of the steering committee?

    There are also multiple pictures by the panel of judges (I count 9).

    Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, errr, Singapore. I would have expected the steering committee to exercise some restraint. (In other parts of the world, it would go without saying that committee members and their families are prohibited from submitting photos.)

    Even if the selection process was completely fair, it wasn't very smart. If people will associate this book project with Singapore in general, it may be quite damaging to Singapore's image, both internal and external.
    With due respect to you, I am puzzled by your interesting but counter productive observation. With due respect to the judges, the judging process is very transparent as the judges do not know whose images they belong to during judging. Judges are also invited to contribute a few suitable images for the book. The images are selected based on merit and relevance to the theme and flow of the book.

    The project is open to anyone residing in Singapore.

    I really applaud your effort in counting the number of images taken by me, and soley single me out. I suppose this is not done with any mischief or interesting agenda. But this is certainly interesting.

    To be frank, there are more than 345 unique photographers, just in case if you wonder if anyone takes part, and they contribute a total of 8000 over images. For me, I submitted about 900 shots myself. For me, there is nothing to lose. I value my pictures a lot, and this project is worth my effort.

    The quality of the images is good. Buy a copy and see it for yourself.

    This project is a real success given by the great response from the local photographic community here. The results speak for itself, and all photographers are proud to be part of this project and we are all looking forward to the book's arrival.

    We understand that there will be some unhappy faces, even from those who do not support this project by not submitting, due to their personal agenda and beliefs. This is a very much personal choice. We shall take your feedback but we will not be swayed by it, as we know what we are doing.

    Anyone is welcome to do a similar project to celebrate Singapore's 40th Anniversary, or even your country's celebration, and you will know the hard work that needs to be put it, all volunteer work without reimbursement, family time sacrificed, personal weekend time for rest forfeited, and yet get all this crap comments from some others.

    It is easy to make passing comments, which can hurt, but when it hit you, you will know the "ouch".

    I am trying to have self restraint in this post, but I think this is time for most of us to reflect.

    Nonetheless, so much talk. The book is in its printing phase and its existence will do the local photography scene proud.

    I also do not understand your last sentence, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, errr, Singapore".

    Are you trying to start a flame war here?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    With due respect to you, I am puzzled by your interesting but counter productive observation.
    I don't think it is counter productive. You can bet that I will not be the only one noticing these things, and the image of all involved in this project might suffer from it. Now there's still some time for damage control ...

    With due respect to the judges, the judging process is very transparent as the judges do not know whose images they belong to during judging. Judges are also invited to contribute a few suitable images for the book. The images are selected based on merit and relevance to the theme and flow of the book.
    I didn't find any details concerning the judgement process published on the TSWL website, so I cannot comment on the transparency. In the end, it doesn't matter: there will always be suspicions about conflicting interests. Judges judging over their own cases? What message does this convey about Singapore?

    The project is open to anyone residing in Singapore.
    Which, at the time of submission, didn't apply to me, so I don't have a personal agenda concerning the competition. However, I would hate to see Singapore embarrassed. The project is endorsed by the government, and the impact could be much more severe compared to, let's say, an internal PSS activity.

    I really applaud your effort in counting the number of images taken by me, and soley single me out.
    Please applaud the computer that did it for me. This was initiated by a quick glimpse at the winning entries, noticing certain names over and over again, which set off an alarm bell. I think the combination of 19 (if I remember correctly) winning entries and being the secretary of the steering committee justifies mentioning specific names. Anyone is free to cross-reference the winning entries with the list of remaining committee members, as published on the TSWL web site.

    Please also consider that the readers of the book won't see how many photos you submitted. They undoubtedly will notice, however, that certain names appear over and over again (and in some cases, next to virtually identical pictures).

    Anyone is welcome to do a similar project to celebrate Singapore's 40th Anniversary, or even your country's celebration, and you will know the hard work that needs to be put it, all volunteer work without reimbursement, family time sacrificed, personal weekend time for rest forfeited, and yet get all this crap comments from some others.

    It is easy to make passing comments, which can hurt, but when it hit you, you will know the "ouch".
    Consider the possibility that what you call "crap comments" are well-meant hints to help the committee save its face. Also keep in mind that for each person nice enough to tell you (at the risk of being hurt themselves by angry or denigrating responses), there may be many more who make up their mind about this affair and shut up, without giving the committee a chance to respond or to fix potential problems.

    The book is in its printing phase and its existence will do the local photography scene proud.
    I wish everyone the best luck.

    I also do not understand your last sentence, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, errr, Singapore".
    See e.g. here: http://www.allshakespeare.com/hamlet/309

    Are you trying to start a flame war here?
    No.

  13. #113
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    Congrats to all photographers.

    Out of goodwill and even greater transparency, I compiled the following figures:

    Total no of selected photos: 335 out of 8,000+ submitted
    Total no of selected photographers: 131 out of 345 who took part

    Breakdown:
    63 photographers (with 1 photo selected)
    35 " " (2 photos)
    13 " " (3 photos)
    5 " " (4 photos)
    7 " " (5 photos)
    4 " " (6 photos)
    darren soh (10 photos selected)
    lee tiah khee (15 photos)
    steven yee pui chung (29 photos)
    joseph mcglennon (30 photos)
    -----------------
    131 (335 photos)
    -----------------

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-New
    Hi LittleWolf,
    the selection process was all done close-door. how long did the panel take to go thro all 8000 pixs? why not open to public to see how high was the standard.

    How can the selection panel not know the pictures belong to who when the file name of all submissions must include the photographer's name in the front (name_catagory_title")? from my understanding, there was a "pre-selection in between the official closing dates, does that means only short-listed photos are shown to the selection panel? someone have isolated certain participants in getting their works into the book? i do feel that this project is getting 'personal'!
    There are only 2 rounds of judging for the 2 closing dates, each judging last almost the whole day. The judging were held on weekdays.

    Huh? Who told you there are pre-selections? LET ME KNOW HOW YOU GET TO THIS CONCLUSION! Prior to the second round deadline, the 5 clubs have their own internal consolidation of images. No such thing as pre selection and these consolidated images were put into judging with the rest of the images submitted by the second deadline. There were no such thing as preferencial entries.

    The judges were shown all the entries submitted. And it was no easy feat!

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    judges also can join the contest? Conflict of interest issues?
    Judges are invited to contribute a few images for the book, and not for the judging. This is very common practice in many other projects.

  16. #116

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    Steven asked me to have a look at this forum. Tell you what, I am sick of it. Sick of those terrible comments, personal attack, flaming.....

    This is very ridiculous and a shame to all clubsnappers that we have several black sheeps who keep making use of this forum to serve as an "attack" platform.

    Clubsnap moderator should look into this before any potential organisers stop posting threads at clubsnap.

    Who on earth would want to post threads on activities that they organise, and end up attacked?

    The threads here are getting too personal.

  17. #117

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    Anyway, I hardly visit clubsnap nowadays other than look at the events section. Too many ridiculous comments.

  18. #118
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    I'm locking this thread cos frankly it's gone OT far enough from the original topic of raising awareness of the event. Whether its worthy of submission and whatever your personal opinion of any club, organisation or individual, there's a proper way, place and time to do it.

    The Moderator
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