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Thread: A K5 for half the price?

  1. #21

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by banana0ne View Post
    Tsammyc, don't say that... my NX might get angry at you! 85mm f/1.4 is coming on NX and this baby can do night with 30mm 2.0 mounted...
    Sorry if I offended your NX If it will make him feel better, I did consider his son, the NX100
    Panasonic TZ-110

  2. #22

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Saying two cameras are the same because they have the same sensor is like saying that a high end mechanical pencil is same as a cheap one if you use the same lead.

    If a MIC low end car uses a BMW engine are you saying they should be priced the same? What happened to handling? Optical viewfinder? SR? Electronic level ? Superior battery life? Better build?

    In any case I can see the place for mirrorless cameras but given a choice I'd rather lug around a DSLR anyway.. When you have a tripod with you, mirrorless or DSLR also no difference to me.
    Please don't mistake me. I'm not saying that the C3 is equivalent to a K5. There is a "?" after my statement. I'm just pointing out that it could be a way for a poor man to acquire the sensor quality and high ISO capability of a K5. Certainly with high ISO shots (say 1600 & 3200) using the same Pentax lenses I'm seeing similar image quality. I'm also saying that perhaps its time for those of us who have been waiting for Pentax's EVIL camera with K-mount capability to give up waiting. With the peaking and manual focus assist, this works even for an almost blind uncle like me. Lastly, I think its a good solution for a 2nd body. Together with my K5, I generally carry around a KX with a DA40 pancake to take street shots. The KX/DA40 is one of the more discreet SLR combinations. With the articulating LCD, the C3 is even more discreet as I can focus and "shoot from the hip"
    Panasonic TZ-110

  3. #23

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by CorneliusK View Post
    Whatever it is they are doing, it works. The K-5 gets better from ISO 200 to ISO 80 - my D700 does not gain this same advantage when going from ISO 200 to ISO 100, and so ends up losing to the K-5 in bright light....
    If you search around Pentaxforums, there is this chap called falconeye who claims that there is no difference between ISO 80-200 on the K-5 and other EXMOR sensor cameras. I don't completely understand the technical discussion, but apparently you can underexpose by a few EV and correct in PP to get the same results under different ISO.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  4. #24
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsammyc

    If you search around Pentaxforums, there is this chap called falconeye who claims that there is no difference between ISO 80-200 on the K-5 and other EXMOR sensor cameras. I don't completely understand the technical discussion, but apparently you can underexpose by a few EV and correct in PP to get the same results under different ISO.
    falconeye is Falk Lumo. The guy is a geek, I'd take his word for it.

  5. #25

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsammyc View Post
    Please don't mistake me. I'm not saying that the C3 is equivalent to a K5. There is a "?" after my statement. I'm just pointing out that it could be a way for a poor man to acquire the sensor quality and high ISO capability of a K5. Certainly with high ISO shots (say 1600 & 3200) using the same Pentax lenses I'm seeing similar image quality. I'm also saying that perhaps its time for those of us who have been waiting for Pentax's EVIL camera with K-mount capability to give up waiting. With the peaking and manual focus assist, this works even for an almost blind uncle like me. Lastly, I think its a good solution for a 2nd body. Together with my K5, I generally carry around a KX with a DA40 pancake to take street shots. The KX/DA40 is one of the more discreet SLR combinations. With the articulating LCD, the C3 is even more discreet as I can focus and "shoot from the hip"

    I really can't let you draw away the Pentax faithful like this.
    Let them be guided by the blind faith and wait for a Pentax mirrorless (rumoured to be coming after the Q btw)

    Jokes aside,
    I really don't find that the NEX is the answer at all.

    It has poor poor shooting egro. Very odd and unstable shooting w/o a viewfinder at arms length. If its viewfinder with peeking mode, then, yes, perhaps its the best way forward for MF in the future. But the NEX does not have a EVF.
    Is shooting this way (arms outstretched at subject trying to focus) more discreet than a quick classic pre-focus at ISO800, f5.6 or f8 at 3m using a 24mm, 35mm or 40mm lens on APS-C? (approach to around focus distance, take up camera and snap -'DONE' ; using hyper-focal distance HCB style?) I don't think so from personal experience.

    Very discreet indeed


    Secondly, poor form factor. Sorry, just too ugly as I've said before.

    Size, is not small with the form factor disaster as shown in the photo above. A 2nd cum backup camera for traveling (ie. not photographic assignments like wedding) will best be small, light, unobtrusive. Fitting into the jacket or small compartment of the day bag if you will (or at least that is my preference). A compact style camera works fine here. Not something that is so "thick" that it needs another camera bag or a proper lens compartment. In fact, I let my wife carry and use the back up 2nd camera. Its used by her as a 2nd eye to take those other stuff that I've missed or deemed uninterested to photography.

    For street shots, there are really various ways to do them. Some even frown upon 'hip shots', but I see no wrong in them so long as it gets the picture.
    Most of these shots are done with a wide angle lens. Focus is either using hyper focal distance, a pre-selected focus point or auto-point selection. As such imo, an articulating screen does nothing to improve hip shots.

    Wide angle 'hip shot' using a K24mm
    Last edited by pinholecam; 16th July 2011 at 10:34 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsammyc View Post
    LOL You clearly didn't read the DXOmark comments. The only reason it measured lower on DR is that the NEX C3 doesn't have an ISO 100 setting. Otherwise it's identical. You can see it from the charts. Actually its probably 1/3 priced. Lelong lelong
    dude, you definitely don't understand what DR is. if some camera can go to ISO10 with DR 1000 stop, it IS a HUGE advantage.

  7. #27
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    It has poor poor shooting egro. Very odd and unstable shooting w/o a viewfinder at arms length. If its viewfinder with peeking mode, then, yes, perhaps its the best way forward for MF in the future. But the NEX does not have a EVF.
    Is shooting this way (arms outstretched at subject trying to focus) more discreet than a quick classic pre-focus at ISO800, f5.6 or f8 at 3m using a 24mm, 35mm or 40mm lens on APS-C? (approach to around focus distance, take up camera and snap -'DONE' ; using hyper-focal distance HCB style?) I don't think so from personal experience.
    It's ok if you can do this:



    Not many people can.

  8. #28

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    It's ok if you can do this:



    Not many people can.
    Yeah, I've seen this vid before. Inspiring and nice technique.
    That falls into the 'hip shot' category btw.
    Certainly no articulating screen needed
    In fact, I don't understand all the 'you need less DOF' arguments that is going around in PentaxForums over the 'Q'.
    Look at the shots from JoeWigfall (and many others, including HCB), shallow DOF was never the reasons for the good street shots.
    Last edited by pinholecam; 16th July 2011 at 10:37 PM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Exactly, street photography is all about catching the moment of random people doing random stuff that matter to those people.

    The moment is what defines the image, not anything else

  10. #30
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    Yeah, I've seen this vid before. Inspiring and nice technique.
    Certainly no articulating screen needed
    In fact, I don't understand all the 'you need less DOF' arguments that is going around in PentaxForums over the 'Q'.
    Look at the shots from JoeWigfall (and many others, including HCB), shallow DOF was never the reasons for the good street shots.
    Yes, actually some of the best street shots I've ever seen were done in good street light, probably requiring ISO80/100/200, F/8-F/11... And a fast shutter speed still.

    What Danny Santos does is not street photography to me, it's street portraiture, and in some ways I find it sad that a lot of people here worship it, because HCB was never about finding random alluring people on the street and shooting them sneakily, it was about seeing the moment fall into place, seeing it come together and make a statement out of it, be it humorous, serious, satirical... I've told Danny that myself a few times, but he didn't seem to take it too well, so..

    Trente Park is a good example of someone who uses strong light.

    Besides, some of the best street photographs ever taken were blur. Amazing but true, and the blur was intentional.

  11. #31

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Wow. The FA77 looks massive on the Nex body.. I sure will do a double-take and a second look if I spot the camera in public. Doesn't seem discreet though, unless it's for hip shoots only. Actually a K-r with a DA40 seems a lot more discreet, but of course, it's a lot more wide.

    But cool idea. I'm waiting and hoping for a true Pentax mirrorless at-least-APSC sensor camera though..

  12. #32

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Yes, actually some of the best street shots I've ever seen were done in good street light, probably requiring ISO80/100/200, F/8-F/11... And a fast shutter speed still.

    What Danny Santos does is not street photography to me, it's street portraiture, and in some ways I find it sad that a lot of people here worship it, because HCB was never about finding random alluring people on the street and shooting them sneakily, it was about seeing the moment fall into place, seeing it come together and make a statement out of it, be it humorous, serious, satirical... I've told Danny that myself a few times, but he didn't seem to take it too well, so..

    Trente Park is a good example of someone who uses strong light.

    Besides, some of the best street photographs ever taken were blur. Amazing but true, and the blur was intentional.
    That is pretty true regarding Danny Santos's thread. Initially, it was fresh and I was drawn to it. But over time, it has not moved on beyond 'girly' shots.

    The street portrait is pretty alright for me though (but I think its too skewed towards ang-mos and pretty girls).
    At least its a showcase of people that exist and make up this place we live in.
    Last edited by pinholecam; 16th July 2011 at 11:01 PM.

  13. #33

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?



    Haha. Pinholecam, your guy is definitely a pro You can tell that by the fact that he is using the weight from the plastic bag to counterbalance the camera to steady the shot!

    Seriously though, even if I wanted to I can't use his technique with my next because the lens is 3 times the weight of the camera and needs to be supported by the whole hand.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  14. #34

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    It has poor poor shooting egro. Very odd and unstable shooting w/o a viewfinder at arms length. If its viewfinder with peeking mode, then, yes, perhaps its the best way forward for MF in the future. But the NEX does not have a EVF.
    Is shooting this way (arms outstretched at subject trying to focus) more discreet than a quick classic pre-focus at ISO800, f5.6 or f8 at 3m using a 24mm, 35mm or 40mm lens on APS-C? (approach to around focus distance, take up camera and snap -'DONE' ; using hyper-focal distance HCB style?) I don't think so from personal experience.
    Have you ever had a camera with an articulating LCD? I'm told that once you use one, you'll never go back

    You sound like a Leica man. Good ones can look at a subject, estimate the distance exactly and then dial it into their M9, lift and shoot. Unfortunately mere mortals like me cannot estimate distance and need to focus or maybe I don't have as much time as you to practice

    I do think the articulating LCD will be excellent for street shots and they will be "stomach shots" I will hold the NEX close my body just above the stomach and flip up the LCD so I can frame the shot and focus. This will work very well with my bifocal glasses. No one will know that I'm taking pictures. Kind of like the old days with medium format cameras.
    Last edited by tsammyc; 16th July 2011 at 11:34 PM.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  15. #35

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    Size, is not small with the form factor disaster as shown in the photo above. A 2nd cum backup camera for traveling (ie. not photographic assignments like wedding) will best be small, light, unobtrusive. Fitting into the jacket or small compartment of the day bag if you will (or at least that is my preference). A compact style camera works fine here. Not something that is so "thick" that it needs another camera bag or a proper lens compartment. In fact, I let my wife carry and use the back up 2nd camera. Its used by her as a 2nd eye to take those other stuff that I've missed or deemed uninterested to photography.

    For street shots, there are really various ways to do them. Some even frown upon 'hip shots', but I see no wrong in them so long as it gets the picture.
    Most of these shots are done with a wide angle lens. Focus is either using hyper focal distance, a pre-selected focus point or auto-point selection. As such imo, an articulating screen does nothing to improve hip shots.
    If you put a Pentax prime on it, its not going to be small, but in total its only about 1/3 of my K5 in size so I think my "stomach shot" technique should work quite very unobtrusively with it. My hand should hide most of the lens. Of course, if you don't mind blurry black and white street shots, then there is a tiny 16mm pancake lens that comes with it. Should work perfectly with your technique since you're after the drama of the moment rather than sharp shots. And with its the Exmor sensor, you should be able to take in very dim light. It might even have that black and white grain on high ISO. It's size with the pancake is slightly larger than my Canon S95 and smaller than the M43 cameras.

    Must say your wife is very nice to you. Mine will definitely not follow me around if I'm shooting.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  16. #36

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    a deliberately framed street shot, with articulating screen or not, loses that charm of street shots - random people, random things, and random frame.
    D3|Tokina 28-70 f2.6-2.8|Samyang 14mm f2.8|K-7|Tamron17-50 f2.8|manfrotto190XproB
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  17. #37

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    I really can't let you draw away the Pentax faithful like this.
    Let them be guided by the blind faith and wait for a Pentax mirrorless (rumoured to be coming after the Q btw)

    Jokes aside,
    I really don't find that the NEX is the answer at all.

    It has poor poor shooting egro. Very odd and unstable shooting w/o a viewfinder at arms length. If its viewfinder with peeking mode, then, yes, perhaps its the best way forward for MF in the future. But the NEX does not have a EVF.
    Is shooting this way (arms outstretched at subject trying to focus) more discreet than a quick classic pre-focus at ISO800, f5.6 or f8 at 3m using a 24mm, 35mm or 40mm lens on APS-C? (approach to around focus distance, take up camera and snap -'DONE' ; using hyper-focal distance HCB style?) I don't think so from personal experience.

    Very discreet indeed


    Secondly, poor form factor. Sorry, just too ugly as I've said before.

    Size, is not small with the form factor disaster as shown in the photo above. A 2nd cum backup camera for traveling (ie. not photographic assignments like wedding) will best be small, light, unobtrusive. Fitting into the jacket or small compartment of the day bag if you will (or at least that is my preference). A compact style camera works fine here. Not something that is so "thick" that it needs another camera bag or a proper lens compartment. In fact, I let my wife carry and use the back up 2nd camera. Its used by her as a 2nd eye to take those other stuff that I've missed or deemed uninterested to photography.

    For street shots, there are really various ways to do them. Some even frown upon 'hip shots', but I see no wrong in them so long as it gets the picture.
    Most of these shots are done with a wide angle lens. Focus is either using hyper focal distance, a pre-selected focus point or auto-point selection. As such imo, an articulating screen does nothing to improve hip shots.

    Wide angle 'hip shot' using a K24mm
    take the 2nd b&w pic for example, and compare it with joe wigfall who uses his hands. pinhole's example is too rigid in framing. this is the kind of effect you will continue to get if you shoot from the hip, what more with an articulating screen. joe wigfall aims with his hands, which is way more flexible with higher degree of freedom. and the feedback from a shot (mirror slap) is also important, vs an electronic shutter
    D3|Tokina 28-70 f2.6-2.8|Samyang 14mm f2.8|K-7|Tamron17-50 f2.8|manfrotto190XproB
    Gallery

  18. #38

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    I'm not saying deliberately frame until everythings perfect, but just frame as opposed to Joe Wigfall just snapping or pinholecam framing by estimation. The articulating screen allows you to frame without extending the camera in front of you.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  19. #39

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by elavan View Post
    take the 2nd b&w pic for example, and compare it with joe wigfall who uses his hands. pinhole's example is too rigid in framing. this is the kind of effect you will continue to get if you shoot from the hip, what more with an articulating screen. joe wigfall aims with his hands, which is way more flexible with higher degree of freedom. and the feedback from a shot (mirror slap) is also important, vs an electronic shutter
    I quite like pinholecams picture, but have to admit there is some dram with wigfall. However, he does take hundreds of pictures at a time. I don't think I want to do it like that. I still like to aim when shooting from the hip The C3 has a shutter, I don't know why, so there is some mirror slap.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  20. #40

    Default Re: A K5 for half the price?

    Quote Originally Posted by poppyer View Post
    dude, you definitely don't understand what DR is. if some camera can go to ISO10 with DR 1000 stop, it IS a HUGE advantage.
    dude, my only problem with you is your claim that the 2 stops difference in dynamic range is because its a different cheaper sensor. The DXOMark charts clearly show that at ISO 200 and above they are close and even DXOMark thinks its the same sensor. The fact that Sony chose not to go down to ISO 80 doesn't mean that its a different sensor. Didn't Nikon chose to go down to "only" ISO 100 with the same sensor. Anyway only eccentric landscape photographers seem to like the fact that the K5 does ISO 80. Most of us normal chaps don't spend our early mornings trudging around the great outdoors are more happy about the way the K5 does high ISO, so were not that concerned that the C3 doesn't do ISO 80.
    Last edited by tsammyc; 17th July 2011 at 01:29 AM.
    Panasonic TZ-110

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