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Thread: how to convince him?

  1. #1

    Default how to convince him?

    i've been facing this problem for sometime already.
    i bought my panasonic fz1 last june and it has had and still having terrible focusing speed,precision and accuracy, plus the noise lvl and picture quality.
    he totally rejects my idea of buying a new cam, for example the d70 or say canon pro1, because he thinks that no other cam can beat mine when it comes to zoom, thinks that PS is the answer and aperature(constant f/2.8). (sure PS is part and parcel of digital, but what i mainly do is to salvage them because some pics are impt and to avoid deleting most of them, whereas others PS it to enhance the pics).

    i bought it that time because i was new to photography and want to use it as a stepping stone.

    whenever i talk to him abt buying a new cam, regardless of DSLRs and p/s, we always end up in the same deadlock,everytime we restart the topic, we nvr progress, we end where we started. it's not like i am using his money to buy a mark2 or d2h with every lens from 12 to 600mm. he also says i dont need to extra MP, yes he's right but it's just that almost every cam in the market has more MP than mine, easily 4 to 8. save for hp cams. the ccds would defn be bigger than mine and would perform better, at least less grainy. he keeps thinking only DSLRs are for ppl with photography as a job and not for a student like me. not saying that i am trying to catch the DSLR chase but even buying a p/s (like cp8700) ends in an arguement. and he's using concepts, thinking and tech from like 30years ago to debate with me. when he once taunted me abt DSLRs but i simply ignored him. if he has really good points to back him up, it is possible i listen to him, but this aint the case!


    everything i bought for my cam, be it filters,cam itself, attachment lens, cleaning kits were paid with my money. i know he's afraid i spent too much money on this when i am not working, surely i know my budget?

    he hasn't been looking at my pictures, he doesnt know how many pics i deleted solely because of noise(useless with Neat image),focusing inaccuracies and exposure problems( underexp at night because flash is pathetic, cant expose properly) and a host of other problems.

    it's not that i am seeking help to convince him to let me satisfy my materialistic hunger but simply put, this cam is giving me alot of problems and he doesnt know much time is spent of salvaging the photos. he nvr used the cam before and has no idea what it's like to take pics with the problems mentioned. he just doesnt understand the frustration i get when shooting.
    it doesnt even have a manual override!

    the reasons why i want to ask him for permission even though i am using my own money(i know this isnt totally abt $) just that i want to give him some respect and keep him in the loop.

    i hope u guys understand i am just explaining my situation and i hope i get something constructive(not to go against him but to convice him) i've thought abt it for sometime and yes i want a new cam.

  2. #2

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    I assume you're talking about your father.

    Simple suggestion.
    Get a film SLR. Cost a mere fraction of the price of a DSLR but IMO produces images of a higher or equivalent quality than a DSLR. A pretty good one could be had for say less than 500(eg. f80, EOS30) or you could get a budget one for maybe 200 or less(EOS 300, f65), which still holds film and gives the same pic quality. (all prices based on 2nd hand prices)

    Even if your father does not wish to buy you a film SLR the price is within reach (via savings) of a student. Lens wise you may have to make do without a F2.8 telephoto but hey unless you shoot sports or concerts on a regular basis im sure the image quality will be more than sufficient.

    A DSLR is definitely expensive for students such as you(and me ) and Im lucky to have a parent who likes photography too and hence didnt mind getting a DSLR. I still however prefer shooting with my film SLR rather than the DSLR, IMO it's functionality to price ratio(ie. value for money) flattens the DSLR. If you like your shots in digital format, its a simple matter of buying a film scanner or if that is out of budget, getting a shop to do it for you so you wont be saddled with the cost of paying a lump sum.

    Its really none of my business, but i think your relationship with your parent shouldn't be strained because of this relatively small matter.

    Anyway, just some advice from one student to another. Hope you may find my suggestions useful.
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  3. #3
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    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=90968

    why dont you see how you can make full use of your fz1? you know...since now you can't get the dslr you want...

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    does your dad (i presume) have a photography background? Where does he get his info from?

    Print out hard copies of the originals & after-ps pics. Sit down & go through with him wat the camera gave u initially, and wat ps can only save. hope tat helps?

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    who is this 'he' you are talking about...


    your boyfriend/brother/dad/son/husband/

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    If "he" is your BF, then it's easy. Change to another one to get a new DSLR.

    I'm sure you can find a sympathetic ear among the handsome CSers who also own DSLRs.

  7. #7

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    oh dear,,left this info out, well he refers to my dad..
    stoned: well, my dad doesnt even pay for a filter nor a cleaning kit,,,so SLR film or digital...u get the drift.

    i once considered getting a film slr but i prefer it to be a digital plus most of the shoots my club is doing prefers digital plus somehow i feel it's less of a logistical nightmare than digital, although i swear by film for long exposures.

    my dad is also a hobby photog but he havent been using his cam for sometime, and it's my fingerprints all over it liao..

    fox:for him, photography is a hobby not his job. i mean he simply feels tech is nothing but a con by companies (oh dear..) yr idea might work but i feel he may just ignore me altogether and watch tv.


    actually i repeatedly delayed buying the cam for sometime because i am waiting for an appropriate time to buy as the family's finances isnt in a good shape. so i take it as i am saving up as well.

    i want to get a dslr because the feel is so much diff.
    even a FM2, i used for the first time on fireworks, it nearly gave me an adrenaline rush, made me damn 'high'

    thanks dotti for the fz1 thread, but i feel the camera is impeding me on several fronts. the only time i can get clean images(w/o noise) is when there's perfect lighting...which is close to rare...
    Last edited by acetylcholine; 6th September 2004 at 09:04 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by acetylcholine
    my dad is also a hobby photog but he havent been using his cam for sometime, and it's my fingerprints all over it liao..

    fox:for him, photography is a hobby not his job. i mean he simply feels tech is nothing but a con by companies (oh dear..) yr idea might work but i feel he may just ignore me altogether and watch tv.

    i want to get a dslr because the feel is so much diff.
    even a FM2, i used for the first time on fireworks, it nearly gave me an adrenaline rush, made me damn 'high'
    tats quite stick-in-the-mud thinking, lolz. Hmm... dun bother with 35mm then. Tell ur dad u going into medium format! yeah~! I'm sure he will support u 'cos it fulfills all his conditions. old tech, but fantastic result.

    personally, dun get too hung up about dslr. there are still some of us who have not transited to digital, still got some old dinosaurs who shoot full manual slrs here, . I know i'm perfectly happy using my fm2n.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxtwo
    tats quite stick-in-the-mud thinking, lolz. Hmm... dun bother with 35mm then. Tell ur dad u going into medium format! yeah~! I'm sure he will support u 'cos it fulfills all his conditions. old tech, but fantastic result.

    personally, dun get too hung up about dslr. there are still some of us who have not transited to digital, still got some old dinosaurs who shoot full manual slrs here, . I know i'm perfectly happy using my fm2n.
    nah..i am not that hung on or something. i have a respect thing for manual SLRs.
    of course i know tech supercedes itself, it's a race to produce better equipment. the logic is the same for photogs competeting for good pics.

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    You're 19 years old - you can afford to work during the holidays to pay for your own camera.

    The wait you will have and the effort you put in will only sweeten the moment when you buy your own camera.

    While there is no doubt that a better camera can help you improve, set yourself the challenge to work within your equipments limitations and maximize its capability.

    You can buy a large aperture lens, but you cannot buy skill.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by acetylcholine
    actually i repeatedly delayed buying the cam for sometime because i am waiting for an appropriate time to buy as the family's finances isnt in a good shape. so i take it as i am saving up as well.
    Do you want this 'new' camera to come between you and your dad?
    You mention he is concern you might spend too much on your photography hobby. Spending $2-3K on DSLR + lens....er.... equal to how long it takes you to save?

    My advice: learn to communicate with your parents, and see things from their perspective regarding financial issues.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotti
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=90968

    why dont you see how you can make full use of your fz1? you know...since now you can't get the dslr you want...

    Actually, I am rather frustrated with the FZ-1 myself... it's like a old fren who is cranky all the time but you can't bear to split with. I have yet to take any good pics with it, and some of the pics are actually worse than my old pre-911 HP 315... I keep convincing myself that I'm jez a horrid photographer, but i can only blame myself for a few more years. Until then, I pray to camera gods to allow me a window into the heart of my FZ-1...

    And to add to the thread... I know how it feels to negotiate the purchase of a new camera. I barely came out alive of the previous discussion to buy a FZ-1 (her side of the story: "if you're that great a photographer, people'd be buying cameras for you, not the other way round; you're jez buying the camera to boost your ego. Men!"). I don't even dare to mention that the FZ-1 is less than satisfactory, i'd jez get whacked for buying it in the first place. Mercifully, she is more understanding of 35mm (being an enthusiastist of rangefinder and full manual cameras... ) so that's my next target.

    My advice for you is to work during the hols, save enuff for a cheap 2nd-hand DSLR - the sub-1K DSLR'll come sooner or later.
    Last edited by feryl; 7th September 2004 at 12:54 AM.

  13. #13

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    I think the main cost revolving around an SLR of any sort is the lenses, not the body. Might want to remember that too.
    You might want to start with a D30 or something(sub 1k) or if you're working, might as well go for something to last you the next few years. BUYBUYBUY 20D!!!
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  14. #14

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    Why not try with a 300D, only about $900-1k 2nd hand nowadays.

  15. #15
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    We dun seem to have advised him on how to talk his dad around yet.

    How about U drag your dad out to shoot (hmm... got double meaning ) this weekend? Bring out both fm2 & FZ-1, take duplicate shots so when the prints come back, u can compare and hopefully u got some of those problems to show.

  16. #16

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    It's great to go for a DSLR.

    However, do consider about the financial worries your dad is facing.

    Sometimes we have to to be contented with what we have.

    IMHO, the best solution is to work during holidays to get $$$ to buy your camera.

    Your dad need not worry about so much on spending $$$ on your expensive hobby and you get what you want thru hard-earned money.

  17. #17

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    You wrote to a point that you sound like you are even having difficulties coping with financial life. If you are, I believe your dad is right to certain points. Why not save up first and decide later whether u should go DSLR. It is an expensive hobby you know? I am not earning alot either, that's what keeping me away from DSLR too..

  18. #18

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    i agree with r32's post in the buying skills and lens part. as for limits. i quickly discovered the limits and working within it is kinda frustating esp when the things i love to take dont turn out well because of the cam.

    snowcrash: actually i also have fears abt spending too much money, be it on other types of leisure or photography. in fact i consider myself to be more paranoid than him because it's my money . i dont really get the part abt spending 2,3k

    thanks feryl for the tip, well i did try to look for jobs during my attachment (which had no pay ) like after work or on weekends where i am damn free. but of no luck. haiz..i am also hunting ard the marketplace section these days, heh heh.

    stoned, point taken. Stop dragging me into the dark side, will ya ?

    wshooter..err..hehe..i nikon sarporter : P

    fox...notti...i am trying not be violent and this is how u help : p
    last year i dragged him to sungei buloh and he himself convinced me that i shot better than him i mean digital u can play cheat by shooting and deleting, loads.

    CCC, i did consider his $tatu$ which is why i delayed buying it and attempted to convince him or at least make him neutral then i buy. also a form of respect but well...didnt go down well. haha. i am planning to work after this sem(final year proj)

    tokrot, the difficulties is refering to him, although i aint rich lah..haha oops.
    expen$ive ? that'$ photography

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